Arizona Lawmakers: Pregnancy Begins Before Conception

[Glass Cowcatcher]

While I do think this is some sort of attempt to infringe on reproductive rights in some way, this is how EVERYONE determines gestational age. I was frequently asked the date of my LMP while I was pregnant. If a pregnant woman has irregular cycles then a dating ultrasound is usually more accurate than relying on LMP, but that's where things start for gestational age and it can be adjusted accordingly.

There was a good post from Feministe as to why this is still a bad/stupid law: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2012/04/04/arizona-hb-2036-is-bad-for-women-anyway/ . The issue of LMP as the official "start" of pregnancy is pretty standard practice, though.

This is a lot like the transvaginal ultrasound laws: just because it may be medically called for doesn't mean it has to be put into law. This is nothing more than another attempt to narrow the gestation age at which a woman can have a legal abortion.

[Kitchen Princess]

I have three kids and I happen to know on which date they were each conceived (the natural way--nothing artificial whatsoever). Circumstances were such that I was only "exposed" one time since the date of my LMP. Yes, that happened 3 times. With my last child, the only one that was actually planned, I knew that I knew that I knew I was already pregnant within days of that encounter. Ten days later, positive pregnancy test. Each of my pregnancies were exactly 265 days, from that date that I knew I was exposed, to the date of birth.

I tend to think that the LMP standard is rather a condescending "pat on the head" from the male medical establishment of the past. There is no reason, with today's medical technology, and the ability of women to learn all they can about reproduction and apply it to their own body and get information from other's experiences, that the LMP standard has to be used; certainly not codified into law. I realize some people do have a lot of sex, but the window for conception is very small in general, so it should be easier now to pin it down a little closer.

And besides that, when I say I conceived on such-and-such date, I should be fucking believed.

[Childless]

I know when I conceived also because we were using ovulation kits to try and get pregnant. Even more than that, I know what ovary he came from. I happened to have an ultrasound two weeks before I found out I was pregnant to check on the status of an ovarian cyst. I saw the burst follicle that I had ovulated from that month. It's kind of cool to have that information.

[Childless]

Also, this law is stupid. I can just see some crazy ass man trying to blame a woman for causing a miscarriage when she simply started her period like usual. You know it'll happen.

[sage]

I'm actually really close to the point where I want to emigrate. At this point I don' t know that there are many places better off, though.

DH and I are in the same boat. If things don't start moving forward in the US soon, we'll be looking towards Europe with his current company.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

DH and I are in the same boat. If things don't start moving forward in the US soon, we'll be looking towards Europe with his current company.

Lucky you for having a way to get there, I've not nothing. :cry:

[Kitchen Princess]

Also, this law is stupid. I can just see some crazy ass man trying to blame a woman for causing a miscarriage when she simply started her period like usual. You know it'll happen.

So much this.

[Maul the Koala]

Lucky you for having a way to get there, I've not nothing. :cry:

Green card marriage?

[Glass Cowcatcher]

Green card marriage?

Don't think my SO would be happy about that...

[sage]

Lucky you for having a way to get there, I've not nothing. :cry:

If things didn't pan out that way, we would look long an hard at other options.

This country... it is getting to be a scary place. :(

[Glass Cowcatcher]

If things didn't pan out that way, we would look long an hard at other options.

This country... it is getting to be a scary place. :(

Yes indeed it is.

[dairyfreelife]

Also, this law is stupid. I can just see some crazy ass man trying to blame a woman for causing a miscarriage when she simply started her period like usual. You know it'll happen.

Funny, I thought the same. 12 miscarriages a year for the average woman, more or less for others. If I haven't had any sexual intercourse, do I get exempt? Or will I still be punished because I should be married and trying to have babies at 23 instead of getting a college degree?

As for the person who claimed LMP is silly, I disagree because it's just to give a rough estimate for gestation and give an estimated time the baby will come. Yes, most people can come close to knowing and some people do know the exact date of conception. However, not everyone is regular and it's not always easy to know in a given cycle when someone was ovulating.

[dairyfreelife]

Lucky you for having a way to get there, I've not nothing. :cry:

You and me both. I'm still in college so have nothing to contribute to another country and would probably be rejected for a visa in as a result. I'm stuck here. Oh, an idea! Can I pursue a master's degree in Canada or the UK? If I apply to a college...that probably won't work either. I'd probably be rejected from their classy universities. I've gotten good grades for the most part and try hard, but I just go to a small uni in the middle of nowhere in the Appalachian mountains. Just a thought though.

[smores]

DH and I are in the same boat. If things don't start moving forward in the US soon, we'll be looking towards Europe with his current company.

We are currently doing this process. It's a 2 year stint to begin with for us, but we may see about staying permanently.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

You and me both. I'm still in college so have nothing to contribute to another country and would probably be rejected for a visa in as a result. I'm stuck here. Oh, an idea! Can I pursue a master's degree in Canada or the UK? If I apply to a college...that probably won't work either. I'd probably be rejected from their classy universities. I've gotten good grades for the most part and try hard, but I just go to a small uni in the middle of nowhere in the Appalachian mountains. Just a thought though.

Well, good luck anyway, where would you go?

[dairyfreelife]

Well, good luck anyway, where would you go?

If things keep up here, I'd be willing to go to either Canada or the UK. Would say Australia put that's like 18 hours of flying and the thought of flying 6-7 hours to the UK terrifies me enough. Did I mention I've never flown before, get motion sick easy and am totally petrified of heights? I'd try Canada first so I can drive there and don't have to fly. I don't think I'm going anywhere any time soon though. My state isn't doing any crazy legislation like Arizona. We have a Democrat-controlled senate and house. I think we only have one Repub in office and is a female and she's never brought up abortion as a topic that I'm aware of. I think I'm safe for now. Can't say the same for other places. My state's economy sucks or I'd recommend it.

[Glass Cowcatcher]

If things keep up here, I'd be willing to go to either Canada or the UK. Would say Australia put that's like 18 hours of flying and the thought of flying 6-7 hours to the UK terrifies me enough. Did I mention I've never flown before, get motion sick easy and am totally petrified of heights? I'd try Canada first so I can drive there and don't have to fly. I don't think I'm going anywhere any time soon though. My state isn't doing any crazy legislation like Arizona. We have a Democrat-controlled senate and house. I think we only have one Repub in office and is a female and she's never brought up abortion as a topic that I'm aware of. I think I'm safe for now. Can't say the same for other places. My state's economy sucks or I'd recommend it.

I'd say Australia would be high on my list, the climate seems mostly the same as it is where I live, except more poisonous.

I would try the UK or NZ but I think life on an island might wig me out after a while.

[Lostie]

I'd say Australia would be high on my list, the climate seems mostly the same as it is where I live, except more poisonous.

I would try the UK or NZ but I think life on an island might wig me out after a while.

:lol: "Except more poisonous" - I love it!

That's how I've always felt about Australia too. Why, oh why does everything there want to kill people...

[Glass Cowcatcher]

:lol: "Except more poisonous" - I love it!

That's how I've always felt about Australia too. Why, oh why does everything there want to kill people...

I've heard they even have exploding trees there. Trees for god's sake! It really is everything!

[Miggy]

I've heard they even have exploding trees there. Trees for god's sake! It really is everything!

:lol: As an Aussie, I'm wondering what on earth you are being taught about my country? Exploding trees? Everything poisonous? I live on a farm and yes, I see plenty of snakes in the paddocks but they are usually heading away from me as fast as they can. (We encourage the snakes because they eat mice.) Spiders are around in the sheds so you don't stick your hands anywhere you can't see.

I am so amused to read these comments from a country that has BEARS!

[keeks21]

I've heard they even have exploding trees there. Trees for god's sake! It really is everything!

Exploding trees? Hardly!

Although our drop bears are pretty gruesome.

Australia is an awesome place but we're headed politically right as well. I'n my state QLD you can only get an abortion on medical grounds and a couple were prosecuted for obtaining drugs for an abortion. The Right wing party the LNP have just got into power and are discussing over turning the previous governments Same sex civil union bill that was only passed 2 months ago.

The national opposition government is led by a man who considered becoming a catholic priest. While he was in government as the health minister he took control of the RU486 from the drugs board into his power and wouldn't allow it in Australia. He also famously funded a pregnancy help line run by religious groups. Thanks to the numerous pr failures of the ruling left government it's looking increasingly likely that his party wil win at the next election. Women, gays and the socially disadvantaged are screwed!

But if you do decide to come to Australia, move to Melbourne! They're much more foreword thinking!

[Maul the Koala]

You and me both. I'm still in college so have nothing to contribute to another country and would probably be rejected for a visa in as a result. I'm stuck here. Oh, an idea! Can I pursue a master's degree in Canada or the UK? If I apply to a college...that probably won't work either. I'd probably be rejected from their classy universities. I've gotten good grades for the most part and try hard, but I just go to a small uni in the middle of nowhere in the Appalachian mountains. Just a thought though.

I can get you info about universities in Canada, depending on what you want to do your master's in and give you their contact information. Don't give up until you talk to an admissions officer! We are moving to the right too but not nearly as bad.

There are work programs out there. Also, if you have a background in the trades Australia does recruit. I think they try harder for Commonwealth members but I imagine if you're qualified enough it doesn't matter. You aren't placed in the bigger cities though. The people I know got placed basically in the middle of nowhere. If you're looking for residency it is a thought though. It's too bad they don't do the holiday visas for US citizens in Europe.

[Antigone]

Guuuh. I'm foaming at the mouth reading this. I just told Sev to never apply for a job in Arizona, I am not setting foot in that state if any of those ridiculous things have actually passed and become law (I'm clueless about the whole process, and never am sure if x actually became law or was struck down).

Anyway, my early morning fuzziness aside, Experiencedd and Doggie, you guys must be my neighbors. I hail from one of those HUGE red pockets down south in Boregonia, but am loving the nice blue one I have found up north. People I know have commented on the huge difference you can see as you go along the interstate and go from city to city. My personal favorite was my commute from work and home. Work was clearly a big old blue, while home was a big old red :) probably due to my fundie lite upbringing, haha!

[browngrl]

edited because on second thought I felt that my comments did not add to the conversation and were more of a personal pet peeve

[DarkAnts]

The only solution to this is to lock up all men. Bring them out once or twice a year for breading. You cant have a baby without sperm