"Damn immigrants need to learn proper english!"

[Anise]

I don't understand your hint, because all I really get from you is that you are both clueless and a douchebag. I was not trying to prove anything except that it is incredibly difficult to learn foreign languages WHICH I PROVED BY MAKING ERRORS WHILE TRYING TO SPEAK A FOREIGN LANGUAGE. Which everyone else but you and geniebelle seemed to understand.

Pardon, but a few pages ago, I was also arguing against Geniebelle. I am well aware of the difficulties; I just don't think it's necessary to keep going after Geniebelle. I gave her the links to help her learn Spanish so she herself can realize how difficult it is.

[pomology]

Pardon, but a few pages ago, I was also arguing against Geniebelle. I am well aware of the difficulties; I just don't think it's necessary to keep going after Geniebelle. I gave her the links to help her learn Spanish so she herself can realize how difficult it is.

Okay, cool. I'm sorry I made a snarky comment in my imperfect Spanish that was along the same vein. Lo siento. No pienso que soy más inteligente que otras personas. Solo no me gusta cuando personas dicen cosas malas sobre los inmigrantes que hablan inglés mucho mejor que hablo caulquier lenguaje que no es mi primera lengua. Lo siento otra vez.

[Wolfie]

:doh: :doh: :doh:

я не понимаю. Что бы сделал Иисус?

I haven't had to do much with Russian since high school, but my opinion is very close to yours.

I might have attempted to answer in Russian, if I knew how to type Cyrillic on my computer.

(and today I had to explain to some students that my Spanish would always have a little accent to their ears, since I was too old when I learned it. They answered me in Spanish, so I answered them back.)

[Anise]

Okay, cool. I'm sorry I made a snarky comment in my imperfect Spanish that was along the same vein. Lo siento. No pienso que soy más inteligente que otras personas. Solo no me gusta cuando personas dicen cosas malas sobre los inmigrantes que hablan inglés mucho mejor que hablo caulquier lenguaje que no es mi primera lengua. Lo siento otra vez.

Estoy de acuerdo. Mi pololo es un inmigrante y me siento muy mala cuando unas personas (aun mi madre!) dicen que no le entienden.

[Witsec7]

I haven't had to do much with Russian since high school, but my opinion is very close to yours.

I might have attempted to answer in Russian, if I knew how to type Cyrillic on my computer.

(and today I had to explain to some students that my Spanish would always have a little accent to their ears, since I was too old when I learned it. They answered me in Spanish, so I answered them back.)

My Mother would sit at the kitchen table at night helping my eldest bro with his Spanish vocabulary. He eventually got a B but the teacher commented that the Russian accent was all that was keeping him from an A.

[Wolfie]

[

My Mother would sit at the kitchen table at night helping my eldest bro with his Spanish vocabulary. He eventually got a B but the teacher commented that the Russian accent was all that was keeping him from an A.

My siblings and I all chose Russian in high school because our great grandparents were from Croatia and Slovinia, so we figured it would be the easiest for us in terms of accents and prior knowledge. (while our great grandparents were gone, we still have relative who are alive and in the area who mainly speak Croatian.) We also were able to help each other with things.

I took Spanish years later for my teaching credential, and I'm postitive that my accent is really messed up sounding to my students, besides learning in my 20's, the professor had grown up in Venezuela, with high school in Spain..... Not to mention that I was already used to accents for Latin and Italian with my music background. (my Mennonite professors in undergrad were totally confused at my struggles with German art songs. Give me nearly any other language and I was fine- I even could sing the Russian ones they'd had in the Library for years, but I had a horrible time trying to memorize German.)

[Witsec7]

My siblings and I all chose Russian in high school because our great grandparents were from Croatia and Slovinia, so we figured it would be the easiest for us in terms of accents and prior knowledge. (while our great grandparents were gone, we still have relative who are alive and in the area who mainly speak Croatian.) We also were able to help each other with things.

I took Spanish years later for my teaching credential, and I'm postitive that my accent is really messed up sounding to my students, besides learning in my 20's, the professor had grown up in Venezuela, with high school in Spain..... Not to mention that I was already used to accents for Latin and Italian with my music background. (my Mennonite professors in undergrad were totally confused at my struggles with German art songs. Give me nearly any other language and I was fine- I even could sing the Russian ones they'd had in the Library for years, but I had a horrible time trying to memorize German.)

It was unfortunate that we were not raised to speak any of our parents languages, they were polyglots, but spoke primarily Russian and Polish to each other. Assimilation was important to them, as was each of us learning unaccented English.

[Wolfie]

It was unfortunate that we were not raised to speak any of our parents languages, they were polyglots, but spoke primarily Russian and Polish to each other. Assimilation was important to them, as was each of us learning unaccented English.

I think it was for that generation. My dad learned Croatian as a toddler, but his father wouldn't let him speak it at home, so he can't really speak it. He does understand more than he realizes he can, and is involved with the local lodge, so he hears it often still. It was more my great aunt who used to take my brother and I all over, including to a few relatives houses who only spoke Croatian where we were exposed the most. She also told me stories about how she was treated when she arrived at school and couldn't speak English- and how she coached her younger siblings so they didn't have the same problem. (she could read and write in Croatian when she started school) I'm so glad that we've come so far in how we teach English learners, but I wish that NCLB would respect them more.

[ilovetchotchkes]

I love that this thread has devolved into Hebrew.

Lamati ivret aval gam lamati spardit v sinit. Y ahora solo puedo hablar una mezcla de los tres. :oops:

Yah, it was really embarrassing in class when I substituted aval for pero. But now I am more likely to use danshi because I've forgotten nearly all my Hebrew. :(

Lol I took 10+ years of spanish and only know prayerbook Hebrew and I caught the gist. But I'm 100% Ashkenazic.

[Guest Anonymous]

Still beating a dead horse I see. I'll try this one more time with different working. When I say learn to speak English, I don't mean give up the accent. You are making in sound as if I expect an immigrant to speak perfect English like a national news caster. Yes, I understand learning another language is hard to do. But, at some point it falls on the immigrant to learn, regardless of how hard it is. Now if those statements make me a racist asshole, fine. I have been called worse. Oh, as far as not being Christ-like, I'll just add it to the long list of mistakes I have made make & take up with my God. As to the Google Translate thing...you asked for a reply in Spanish knowing that I don't speak it, so Google Translate it was. As for was what went down with my church, I really don't care if you believe me or not, and other than this statement, I will not discuss it again because it only be a GenieBelle's sexist church and her supporting it thread 2.0. Yes, I have mentioned my medical condition a few times, but I have not used my medical condition as an excuse except in this thread for the typo and when Lissar practically called me an addict.

I'm tired of going around in circles, so the next I visit this thread I think I just copy and paste "beating a dead horse and going in circles".

[Mama Mia]

You know geniebelle, since you have never even TRIED to learn another language maybe you should take into account that language acquisition varies GREATLY among individuals.

I live and work in an area where Spanish is very, very common. Most of my co-workers and many of my friends and some of my family speak Spanish fluently. As a small child my mother bought Spanish workbooks and records. When I was in grade school I had Spanish in at least two grades and summer school. I took Spanish in Jr. High and High School and at the Community College. I've bought numerous spanish/english translation dictionaries and workbooks and on-line programs as an adult. I helped my kids with their Spanish homework while they were in school. I even taught at a freaking migrant head start program where EVERYONE spoke Spanish 99% of the time.

As the result of all of this I can understand MAYBE a third of the spoken language ( on a really good day ), I can read MAYBE a quarter of basic, basic writing, I know in my head probably 150 basic vocabulary words and if I try to say ANY of them I have the worst possible accent ever and no one understands a word I say. I can however, understand most Spanish speakers speaking English with a thick accent.

Except for the period of time when I worked at the migrant program and was 100% immersed ( at which time I could communicate, marginally ) this is the best my Spanish has ever gotten. I am hopeless !

Suppose I was immigrating to Mexico with my family and everyone else was able to pick up the language easily .. should I stay behind because I am hopeless at languages ?

Also, if you've been called worse than a "racist asshole" you pretty much must fail as a human being.

[Guest Anonymous]

Still beating a dead horse I see. I'll try this one more time with different working. When I say learn to speak English, I don't mean give up the accent. You are making in sound as if I expect an immigrant to speak perfect English like a national news caster. Yes, I understand learning another language is hard to do. But, at some point it falls on the immigrant to learn, regardless of how hard it is. Now if those statements make me a racist asshole, fine. I have been called worse. Oh, as far as not being Christ-like, I'll just add it to the long list of mistakes I have made make & take up with my God. As to the Google Translate thing...you asked for a reply in Spanish knowing that I don't speak it, so Google Translate it was. As for was what went down with my church, I really don't care if you believe me or not, and other than this statement, I will not discuss it again because it only be a GenieBelle's sexist church and her supporting it thread 2.0. Yes, I have mentioned my medical condition a few times, but I have not used my medical condition as an excuse except in this thread for the typo and when Lissar practically called me an addict.

I'm tired of going around in circles, so the next I visit this thread I think I just copy and paste "beating a dead horse and going in circles".

It would be cool if you addressed the fact that since several of the states in the West (Texas, New Mexico, Arizona, California) became part of the U.S. there have been U.S. citizens who speak Spanish as their first and sometimes only language. Or do they not count? Immigrants to the U.S. are not the only people living here who don't speak English.

You said several times that you were "under the influence" and it was negatively affecting your behavior.

To which I responded:

Okay, I apologize for coming back to this after so long, but I've been away and I didn't see anyone else address it. If they did and I missed it, I apologize. "I was drunk"/"I was high" is an excuse that is frequently trotted out when someone acts like a jackass on the internet but doesn't want to own their behavior. It's right up there with "It wasn't me, it was my cousin/little brother/cat" or "I was hacked." I'm not really buying it.

If it is true, then you need to get some help. If you are frequently under the influence of drugs or alcohol and it affects you to the extent that you say horrible things that you wouldn't normally say, then you really need assistance from professionals and I hope you will seek it out. Addiction is terrible.

For what it's worth, I don't think you're an addict. I think you're a nasty liar who tries to make excuses for your bigotry. You're also a slimy weasel who won't answer direct questions.

Why are you here if you don't consider yourself a member of this forum, and you're not a troll?

[RR88]

AuntCloud: דוברת? Is that an alternative to מדברת?

[Guest Anonymous]

I have only used my medical condition as an excuse for the shit stirring troll, accusing FJ of being worse than fundies, and for the the typo that made that somehow got associated with a couple of posts on vibrators (which was very funny). Other than that I have only mentioned my condition in a silly manner:

Mentioned I had Meniere's Disease in the introduce yourself thread

Saying a I was jealous of all the snack food in the Bates' pantry because I'm on a strick low sodium diet.

Saying I need to pop a Valium before I read Michelle Duggars notes on 7 needs of a wife

Saying I am unable to fly or travel a lot due to my condition (not a silly remark but not an excuse for anything said)

Saying I have problems hearing after ear surgery

Other than what I listed above please point out where I have used my medical condition as an excuse for anything. I also don't need a history lesson. I am well aware that huge part of the SW belonged to Mexico, I also know that the descendants of the original inhabitants speak English. Again, beating a dead horse and going in circles.

As for the unanswered questions, I probably overlooked them because thy got lost in all of the craziness. Other than what is stated above, I do not make any excuses for nor will I apologize any further for my opinions and statements on this thread. You have your opinion and I have mine, and debating this further is pointless as is the name calling. Although, I have to say lying weasel is the funniest I have heard so far. :lol:

[evenstar210]

אני גם דוברת עברית! ואני מסכימה איתכן שזה ממש קשה ללמוד שפה חדשה. למדתי עברית בבית ספר מגיל 3 ואני עדיין עובדת על המבטא.

I see Hebrew on a thread here and I just had to chime in.

As an Israeli-American (in a community with Israelis who don't speak much English), I've had to work hard on my vocab and accent. I happen to be pretty good with languages, but I know I make mistakes all the time. People are understanding. Sometimes they finish my thought for me when I can't find the words. They don't say, "Learn Hebrew, stupid Americayit."

P.S. I love the two conversations going on in this thread at the same time.

[Constance Vigilance]

Apparently talking about how geniebelle is bigoted and uncompassionate while she continues to make bigoted and uncompassionate statements is "beating a dead horse".

Sorry geniebelle, you can't make us stop pointing that out just because you don't want to hear it.

[Shina]

You know the funny thing? Right now I'm one of those lazy immigrants who can't speak the language properly.

Of course, most people in this country are quite friendly and accepting of my accent, my glaring grammar mistakes, and the fact that I can't use the subjuntive at all. I'm sure there are assholes lurking around, but in my experience that entitled " you must speak MY language or I'm going to throw a tantrum" attitude is distinctly American.

[Guest Anonymous]

All I said was learn to speak English clearly, and I do get that fact that it isn't easy to learn a new language. I never called anyone who can't speak English stupid or used any racial slurs. I just firmly believe that when you move to and work in the U.S. where English is the majority language you need to learn to speak English more clearly. I never said speak English perfectly, give up an accent, or use proper grammar. The only phrases I have used are speak more clearly and speak in an understandable way. Did it ever occur to anybody that by doing so, it could help them find better job opportunities here in America? No, because once the phrases speak more clearly and in an understandable way were mentioned plus the fact that I don't speak a foreign language somehow translated in to hate, bigotry, racism. If anything by not encouraging an immigrant to learn to speak English more clearly, you are essentially taking opportunities away from them, and that is so sad.

[lawfulevil]

Alecto, this board needs parental controls so Geniebelle can't post during hours we can't buy booze. Bigotry AND concern trolling and I'm all out of rum, fucking tragic.

[Patsy]

All I said was learn to speak English clearly, and I do get that fact that it isn't easy to learn a new language. I never called anyone who can't speak English stupid or used any racial slurs. I just firmly believe that when you move to and work in the U.S. where English is the majority language you need to learn to speak English more clearly. I never said speak English perfectly, give up an accent, or use proper grammar. The only phrases I have used are speak more clearly and speak in an understandable way. Did it ever occur to anybody that by doing so, it could help them find better job opportunities here in America? No, because once the phrases speak more clearly and in an understandable way were mentioned plus the fact that I don't speak a foreign language somehow translated in to hate, bigotry, racism. If anything by not encouraging an immigrant to learn to speak English more clearly, you are essentially taking opportunities away from them, and that is so sad.

You're the real racists! You're just as bad as the fundies!

[evenstar210]

What do you think an "understandable way" is, Geniebelle, if it doesn't have anything to do with your accent or your grammar?

Cause take it from someone who's been there (and you have admitted yourself that you have not), being understood has a LOT to do with accent, grammar, syntax, and all of those things.

Most immigrants want to speak the language of their new country. But encouragement, patience, and acceptance will help a lot more than, "just speak more clearly, will you?"

[Guest Anonymous]

You're the real racists! You're just as bad as the fundies!

Whatever. I got that memo several pages ago.

But encouragement, patience, and acceptance will help a lot more than, "just speak more clearly, will you?"

I know that, but I never said anything about being impatient, not offering encouragement, or acceptance

What do you think an "understandable way" is, Geniebelle, if it doesn't have anything to do with your accent or your grammar?

A way that doesn't require me having to repeat myself a dozen times when talking to a customer service rep for one.

[formergothardite]

But, Genie, you admit that if they have come here, speak English, but not with one of the accents you struggle to understand, live around people who speak with the same accent they do, and don't have the time or money to go get a professional to train them to have a better accent, your opinion is "It's not my problem." And you also admit that this is showing no compassion or even a Christ like attitude, but you aren't going to change your opinion? So why do you bother being a Christian?

Really, you are the first person I have met who has claimed to be a Christian yet who at the same time just came out and said that they don't care what Christ commanded, they aren't changing. Sure, I know plenty of people who act like this, but most won't come out and admit it.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well....lookie what I found:

http://www.businessweek.com/managing/co ... 836850.htm

What's stated in this article can also be applied to non-outsourced jobs where there is a language barrier. Apparently a lot of people are fed up with the language barrier thing. I can't wait to see how this one gets ripped to shreds.

[Deleted03]

All I said was learn to speak English clearly, and I do get that fact that it isn't easy to learn a new language. I never called anyone who can't speak English stupid or used any racial slurs. I just firmly believe that when you move to and work in the U.S. where English is the majority language you need to learn to speak English more clearly. I never said speak English perfectly, give up an accent, or use proper grammar. The only phrases I have used are speak more clearly and speak in an understandable way. Did it ever occur to anybody that by doing so, it could help them find better job opportunities here in America? No, because once the phrases speak more clearly and in an understandable way were mentioned plus the fact that I don't speak a foreign language somehow translated in to hate, bigotry, racism. If anything by not encouraging an immigrant to learn to speak English more clearly, you are essentially taking opportunities away from them, and that is so sad.

yet again, who is going to pay for the classes? Don't you think it serves many people's interests to have immigrants who don't speak english or don't speak it well? Don't you think that's how they pay them low salaries and get them year to year?

It's not about the immigrants not wanting to try it's about the system not giving them the opportunities.

and I bet with a little effort from your part you'd understand most people. But apparently any type of effort that takes you to think outside your narrow box is just way too hard. Guess it's just too hard for you to learn a variety of english :lol: