"Damn immigrants need to learn proper english!"

[Conuly]

Oh, buy the way, I have 2 Native American ancestors...1 Cherokee and 1 Chickasaw.

Which I guess makes you 10% genuine Indian Princess!

:roll:

On a side note, why is it that those people who make the biggest stink about English and English only are never able to spell? English orthography is a mess, to be sure, but why do those folks always make the biggest hash over it?

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Reason we're "beating a dead horse". Because you clearly miss the points we're making as this statement right here proves.

More like "red stain on the carpet where the horse used to be" at this point...

(Enjoying the Hebrew snippets though - I'm actually surprised how well Google translate does with simple things, but this is reminding me that I would like to learn Hebrew at some point, need to find a good alphabet site first...)

[holierthanyou]

What?!?! You could find a page on the internetz that agreed with you?!?! Well then gosh darn it all, it MUST be true!! You know, because it's not like you could find homophobic, racist, or sexist bullshit on the great Internetz!!!

Wow, you have REALLY proven your point. Standing ovation for GB, everyone.

Also, in the words of the great Lissar:

Why do you keep posting here?

[Guest Anonymous]

Wow a business owner who limits there customer base. That sounds racist to me.

[Constance Vigilance]

This post was made by geniebelle who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.

Ahh, the sweet sound of silence. :D

At this point I am hearing "Trolling, she's just trolling" to the tune of this song (NSFW, but very funny!)

MXzaVOk_Ydk

[Guest Anonymous]

Ahh, the sweet sound of silence. :D

Fixed that for you..... ;)

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I will say though I've drunkposted on this site quite a few times myself... :D Never regretted anything, though.

Back to businesses though - there are quite a variety of businesses in the US aimed explicitly at expats (or people with an affinity for some foreign country for whatever reason) where the entire product they're selling is access back to the home country media, or food, or goods, or books, or whatever the heck it is. Often they're quite high tech, but if you want to contact them, it's not in English. The confirmation mail you get, again no English involved. Why? Because 99% of the customer base is fine with that, and if you can't speak the language of the business, why are you doing business with them?

I DO agree that if your business is aimed at speakers of language X, you should try have your customer service people (whoever they are) able to communicate well in language X. Thing is (1) sometimes language X isn't English, even in the US, and (2) sometimes it IS English (or includes English in the list) but due to personnel issues, their BEST English speaker is still pretty bad. It happens.

No one is telling geniebelle she can't shop at my grocery. People will be happy to try and help. However, odds are they won't speak the sort of perfect English she wants. She might actually have to experience being a minority for once.

[kpmom]

OMG, I can't believe this thread is still going! And frequented by a poster who doesn't consider herself a member and yet has almost 600 posts, and has a full life so she doesn't need to be posting here but does 'cause she feels like it, and sometimes posts under the influence so can't be held responsible for what she says, and besides she's already apologized anyway, and no, she doesn't need attention, so there!

[Guest Anonymous]

Already answered...because I feel it.

How is "because I feel it" an answer to - If you aren't trolling, and you don't consider yourself a member of this forum, then what are you getting out of being here? Why do you continue to post in multiple threads as if you were a member of this forum?

Wait, it's not.

[Conuly]

Wow a business owner who limits there customer base. That sounds racist to me.

Providing services in two languages instead of one (even if one is spoken less well than the other) expands your customer base, it doesn't limit it. Limiting your customer base would be bad business.

[Guest Anonymous]

What?!?! You could find a page on the internetz that agreed with you?!?! Well then gosh darn it all, it MUST be true!! You know, because it's not like you could find homophobic, racist, or sexist bullshit on the great Internetz!!!

Wow, you have REALLY proven your point. Standing ovation for GB, everyone.

Also, in the words of the great Lissar:

Why do you keep posting here?

Here are some more links for you:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/12/0 ... 35147.html

http://sloanreview.mit.edu/executive-ad ... isfaction/

http://www.technewsworld.com/story/32248.html (this one talks about the backlash against Dell)

If that's not enough, then then do your own search

[gardenvarietycitizen]

とにかくウザい… :roll:

[Guest Anonymous]

I just love it when feathers get ruffled and name calling begins. As to why I'm here....it's the same as anybody's. Do I consider my self a member? Well I'm still posting aren't I? I'm just the black sheep who doesn't tow the FJ party line.

[Guest Anonymous]

I just love it when feathers get ruffled and name calling begins. As to why I'm here....it's the same as anybody's. Do I consider my self a member? Well I'm still posting aren't I? I'm just the black sheep who doesn't tow the FJ party line.

So you're a trolling troll who trolls. Got it.

[Guest Anonymous]

This thread has fuck all to do with outsourcing. You're moving the goalposts.

It has everything to do with this thread, as it demonstrates the frustration other people feel when they can't even understand someone trying to explain their bill or understanding what a tech support rep is telling them to do.

[Conuly]

If you genuinely can't understand, ask to speak to somebody else. Politely. This isn't difficult, and sooner or later you'll come across somebody you CAN understand more easily.

Also, it's "toe" the line. As in, there's a line on the sand for all good soldiers to stand behind, and your toes are right on the line where they're supposed to be. You're not towing anything anywhere.

[Guest Anonymous]

So you're a trolling troll who trolls. Got it.

No, you're just mad that I actually made my point. But then again, anybody who doesn't tow the line is either labeled a troll, racists, sexist and a a bigot.

[Austin]

It has everything to do with this thread, as it demonstrates the frustration other people feel when they can't even understand someone trying to explain their bill or understanding what a tech support rep is telling them to do.

I understand it can be frustrating. It's frustrating to not understand or not be understood. But can't you put yourself in their shoes and recognize that they're doing the best they can and work with them a bit? What if you were the one at the call center and the caller couldn't understand you easily? The marketplace is global now and in my company, we have clients from all over the world. To some of our international clients, I'm the one who doesn't know their language.

If you truly can't communicate, you can politely ask them, "I'm sorry, but I can't understand. Is it possible to speak with another representative?"

oh, crossposted with conuly

[Guest Anonymous]

No, you're just mad that I actually made my point. But then again, anybody who doesn't tow the line is either labeled a troll, racists, sexist and a a bigot.

What color is the sky in your world?

[dairyfreelife]

Well, it's a bit more complicated than that. You don't need much education to work in a factory, after all, and those jobs are leaving too. Why? Because we have some basic protections for workers and laws about how much you have to pay them, and laws about the sort of damage you can do to the environment. Companies, looking at the bottom line, often find it cheaper to work overseas.

It'd be better to have those laws internationally, or to insist that anybody doing business in the US follow those laws no matter WHERE you place your business, if you ask me.

I was mostly referring to tech type jobs, but yeah, the factory thing is because it's cheaper, safer (for here, not for the people over there), and whatnot. That's another issue entirely, the manufacturing outsourcing and sweat shops and all that horrible stuff. GB was talking about call centers so I was referencing that.

Sweetie, I hate to break the news to you, providing tech support over the phone ain't rocket science, and the person you speak with on the phone isn't a computer wiz. I use to work for a call center years ago. Trust me, for every possible problem you have, there are guidelines on how how to fix it, and none of them require a college degree...only a week or 2 of on the job training. If it can't be fixed, well, guess what? Something needs to be replaced or an on-site technician needs to come to your home and fix it.

Your average call center can have as few as a dozen reps or as as many as 300+. Considering the number of companies that have call centers, that a rough average of a 3 million jobs, and the last time I checked the American unemployment rate wasn't zero.

One, don't call me sweetie like you're trying to be nice. It's a pet peeve I have when people trying to be jerks call me honey or dear or sweetie thinking it'll make their comment nicer. I only say those when I am trying to be nice.

I hate to break it to you, but yeah, they do need to know something. When my internet was not working, I called the provider toll free and got someone from India and he was able to get into my system and fixed the problem for me himself. Anyone could have done that, right? He just had a guideline. He couldn't possibly have been good with computers. I've called companies and have gotten people from here too, but with a lot of higher level things, yeah, you'll get someone from somewhere else like India. You are making a broad assumption that all call centers have reps from out of country, which hasn't been my experience. It will depend on what you are looking for. Called Sears once, got an American rep. If it bothers you that much to get someone from India, ask for another rep. It's not that difficult, because there are some tech reps in the states.

I think you missed my point on the 3%. However, based on your other posts, you don't seem to understand economics much so I'll let it go.

Also, to get back to the language issues this thread is about, you are from Alabama and saying Southern/Appalachia as one dialect is incorrect. Appalachian dialect is different from most southern dialect. The origins of the dialect are different with Appalachian taking cues from Scottish and Elizabethian language. I have relatives who have strong Appalachian dialect. I speak more neutral American dialect. My parents have lived in Georgia and have been to North and South Carolina a lot. There is a difference.

Edited because I was typing fast. I do know how to spell.

[pomology]

More like "red stain on the carpet where the horse used to be" at this point...

(Enjoying the Hebrew snippets though - I'm actually surprised how well Google translate does with simple things, but this is reminding me that I would like to learn Hebrew at some point, need to find a good alphabet site first...)

Google translate is actually fricking awesome. You just have to already be pretty familiar with the language to be able to use it. You also can't generally translate long phrases. But if you know enough about the language you are translating into and can realize where it makes errors, it's a super useful tool.

I was hella impressed when I found out that it could differentiate between "to graduate from high school" and "to graduate from college" for which there are two different verbs in Italian. It can come up with diplomarsi for graduating from high school and laurearsi for graduating from university with the right context.

[Artemis]

I'm just the black sheep who doesn't tow the FJ party line.

It's 'toe the line' BTW

And sheep have hooves. Not toes. Even black sheep.

[Witsec7]

I just love it when feathers get ruffled and name calling begins. As to why I'm here....it's the same as anybody's. Do I consider my self a member? Well I'm still posting aren't I? I'm just the black sheep who doesn't tow the FJ party line.

Just a basic question, when do you sleep? The time stamps on your posts tell an interesting story.

[samithemage]

Back to the immigrants learning the native language of a place before moving there... I took several years of french in high school and majored in french in college. I thought I could speak it fairly well. After college, I had the opportunity to move to France for 8 months and teach conversational English to middle school students. I was thrilled. However, pretty much as soon as I arrived, I realized the many gaps in my french language skills. The hardest part was trying to get through the processes of obtaining my visa. No one spoke any English, nor did I expect them too. I managed to muddle through, I was often close to tears. I know my accent was terrible and my knowledge of bureaucratic terms was limited. In general though, everyone I encountered was patient and willing to do their best to help me communicate. I was incredibly grateful for all of the help and support I received. I was welcomed with open arms into the community where I was teaching and my experience was overall, one of the best times of my life.

I can't imagine trying to immigrate to a country where I was expected to speak the language clearly all the time. I often ended up using long explanations of simple things because I just didn't know a specific word. Conversations often took twice as long as they should have and I often had to repeat things because I wasn't pronouncing the words correctly. No one got impatient with me though, except the lady at the office where I was trying to get my visa situation squared away, and even she was polite enough, even though I could sense her impatience.

I went to France having a solid background in the language, but even so, being faced with the real, day to day conversational use of the language was overwhelming at first. By the end, all of the teachers I worked with commented on how much my french had improved and I was happy to have made progress. I never would have made that progress if I were faced with people like geniebelle, with the attitude that I should just magically learn to speak more clearly. I had studied the language before hand, but that doesn't prepare you for the real immersion that happens when you move to country, where you don't speak the majority language.

[Soldevi]

Also notice the recordings you get when you first call a company there is almost always a recording saying "for Spanish press x" or something similar. Now tell how is it fair for a Spanish speaking customer to be able to speak with another Spanish speaking person, while a English speaking customer get's someone that makes "Peggy" from the Discover commercials look good. Oh, and lets not forget the number jobs that could potentially come back to America.

This might be my lack of understanding language perfectly (foreigner as I am) but are you saying that Spanish language customer service is better than English language service? How can you say that Spanish speaking customers get the better service if you haven't chosen that option and listened how they speak? Assuming, much.

Of course, I don't know. Maybe they buy customer service from fluent Spanish speakers. Or maybe they have outsourced that as well. (a quick Google search reveals that Indian companies search for Spanish speaking people for customer service).