"Damn immigrants need to learn proper english!"

[formergothardite]

Already answered...because I feel it.

And why exactly are you a Christian again? You don't seem to want to act Christ like in the least little bit.

[Guest Anonymous]

I hate to break it to you, but yeah, they do need to know something. When my internet was not working, I called the provider toll free and got someone from India and he was able to get into my system and fixed the problem for me himself. Anyone could have done that, right?

That is absolutely right. There is a guideline (some call centers call the scripts). That tells the rep what to ask and what to do. The only education required besides a high school diploma and a couple of of on the job training, and that's it. I promise you I am not making any of this up. You see, this use to be my job once upon a time, so I know what I'm talking about. Of course if you don't believe me you can look it up for yourself.

[Witsec7]

That is absolutely right. There is a guideline (some call centers call the scripts). That tells the rep what to ask and what to do. The only education required besides a high school diploma and a couple of of on the job training, and that's it. I promise you I am not making any of this up. You see, this use to be my job once upon a time, so I know what I'm talking about. Of course if you don't believe me you can look it up for yourself.

So genie, when do you sleep? You were up late last night on a manic posting binge and hard at it early this morning. What ever happened to your 'full' life?

[Witsec1]

I was hella impressed when I found out that it could differentiate between "to graduate from high school" and "to graduate from college" for which there are two different verbs in Italian. It can come up with diplomarsi for graduating from high school and laurearsi for graduating from university with the right context.

Parli Italiano? Voglio imparare l'italiano. Che bella lingua!

[gardenvarietycitizen]

I visited Italy in spring 2009 and I do not speak more than 4 words of Italian. (I am not proud of that by any means, but it was a last minute invite I was NOT about to pass up!) Luckily for me the person I was visiting speaks more (not fluent by any means, but can get around the basics).

But during that vacation we went on a mini-vacation to Venice (rented an apartment for a week), and I was so lucky to run into a Japanese tour group visiting San Marco plaza. They had a local Italian guide who was explaining things to them in Japanese, so I just hung around the rear of their group and listened in.

He had a sort of wonky accent in Japanese but it was plenty understandable enough.

Better yet later we went up Mt. Etna and the people at the top explaining things were able to answer questions in all sorts of European languages, luckily for me INCLUDING English. But it was fascinating watching the guy.

[pomology]

Parli Italiano? Voglio imparare l'italiano. Che bella lingua!

Un po'. Sono in un corso d'italiano. Ho deciso studiare italiano perché mi piace molto le lingue e per me corsi di lingua di primo anno sono molto facile. Il semestre scorso ero in tre classe di storia e avevo bisogno di stare in un'altra classe facile. Ho pensato che italiano sarebbe divertente e facile e avevo ragione. Pensavo di studiare francese ma ho sentito che il professore di francese 101 era terrible. L'unica cosa che trovo difficile davvero sono le preposizioni. Ma mi piace molto la lingua. È molta bella e mi piace paragonare con lo spagnolo. Il mio problema è che quando cerco di parlare in spagnolo dico "di" invece di "de" e "non lo so" invece di "no sé" ecc ecc.

[dairyfreelife]

That is absolutely right. There is a guideline (some call centers call the scripts). That tells the rep what to ask and what to do. The only education required besides a high school diploma and a couple of of on the job training, and that's it. I promise you I am not making any of this up. You see, this use to be my job once upon a time, so I know what I'm talking about. Of course if you don't believe me you can look it up for yourself.

How long ago was that? What sort of rep were you? There are different types of reps. When I called for internet, I got a rep here who then transferred me to a tech specialist in India. Apparently the rep didn't have a script to fix my computer. Someone with more education and computer knowledge fixed it. I only knew he was from India because I was curious and asked where he was located. Otherwise I wouldn't have even known. For all I knew, he was here and just had an accent and yes, I've met people from India with accents who were American citizens. Weren't less Americans.

Are you going to get back to the topic at hand and stop being so judgmental? Eh, that's probably a rhetorical question.

[Bloo]

Teaching a class in which roughly 12 of my 18 (second grade) students speak Spanish as their primary language has given me quite a bit of compassion for those trying to learn new languages. I am fortunate in that all of my students have at least basic conversational English- but they have extreme difficulties reading English and dealing with English phonics. I have an almost-full-time aide in the classroom whose primary language is also Spanish, and I'll admit, sometimes I get jealous when she can translate items into Spanish and have the kids understand better than anything I could say to them in English.

I have, however, had some years learning Spanish, and while I was working with one of my Latina girls in math and having dual troubles (skills as well as keeping her focused), I blurted out the math problems in Spanish. She blinked at me, broke out into a huge smile, and before I knew it, all of my Spanish-speakers were gathered around to hear me talk about numbers in Spanish. It wasn't much, and I'm sure I wasn't gramatically correct, but I could tell that even these young kids just appreciated that I (Whitey McWhiterson) was making the damn effort.

Parent-teacher conferences can be an issue, because a lot of the parents don't speak any English. However, I have my aide there to translate. It's not a big deal.

I love watching my kids file in every morning chattering in Spanish and English. It makes my heart happy that none of the other kids seem to think that there's anything wrong or anything even odd about this, but it also makes me worry about them encountering these bigoted attitudes in the future. I brought home a class picture to show to my family- they've heard me talk on and on about these kids for months but never seen them- and of course I heard a lot of comments about them needing to learn English, or what an awesome teacher I was for putting up with this burden. Sometimes that hurts. They're my kids, y'know?

I guess my point, if I have one, is this- if you get to know someone, you come to understand them. Not just knowing who they are, but their little idiosyncracies, including their speech patterns. It's funny- listen to someone speak for a while, and eventually you'll hear them better. In fact, the student of mine that I often have the most trouble understanding is one of the white minority- he just has this unfortunate habit of turning his head away when he speaks to me (I have trouble hearing sometimes and it helps immensely to have the speaker facing me).

[Guest Anonymous]

It was about 3 years ago, and I worked in internet tech support. Some call centers have just a guideline (think outline) others have outright scripts they have to read word for word. The company I worked for used guidelines, which helps the rep build rapport with the customer. They have the ability to test and reset your modem remotely. Some reps had the ability to access a customers computer remotely if the issue was the computer and not the modem. Wireless connections were handled a little differently depending on whether the router was provided by your provider or if's one you purchased retail. Also the type of connection you have (DSL like AT&T or cable (Time Warner, Comcast). That's the cliff notes version. I'm Anyway, none of this required more than high school diploma and a few weeks of on the job training. Oh, BTW not all tech call centers are outsourced, but a majority are.

Like I said in an earlier post, this is potentially 3 million or more jobs that an American company could keep here. They choose not to because it is cheaper to outsource. They pay incredibly low wages, don't have to deal with unions, and it's one less department they need to monitor.

[NurseNell]

I am always impressed with how well immigrants and refugees do learning English. Many of our refugees from Southeast Asia come from cultures that did not have a written language. This is true of the Hmong and Karen. So not only are they learning a new language but are learning a totally foreign alphabet, a concept they never experienced.

My 2 great grandmothers were immigrants, one from Ireland and one from Germany. They both shared their stories of how difficult it was being immigrants here at the turn of the century. My Irish great grandmother knew English but was greeted with signs that said "no Irish need apply here". She came on a sailing ship and was stuck at sea for several weeks because of no wind. She swore she'd never step foot on another ship again and she never did. My German great grandmother never learned English very well. She lived in a German neighborhood in New York City. She depended on her children to translate for her. She died when I was 5 and I still remember her speaking German. My grandmother and her sisters told me how hard it was during both WWI and WWII, being German. They were viewed as the enemy even though several of them had sons serving in WWII. It was my great grandmothers' stories that stayed with me and is why I reach out to immigrants.

I study Spanish. I can understand it better than speak it. I find languages hard to learn. My brother is gifted at learning languages. He speaks German, Spanish, and Korean

When I was in 6th grade the big thing was pig latin. A group of us went to a nearby city one day, to go to the movies. We took the Greyhound bus. We decided to speak pig latin all day. It was hilarious and of course we thought we were so cool and no one would understand us. :?

[Guest Anonymous]

So genie, when do you sleep? You were up late last night on a manic posting binge and hard at it early this morning. What ever happened to your 'full' life?

When I can I am having a hard time with my Meniere's Disease right now. Please note that this is an explanation for the questioned asked about sleep. I am in no way using it to excuse for any of opinions.

[emmiedahl]

No, you're just mad that I actually made my point. But then again, anybody who doesn't tow the line is either labeled a troll, racists, sexist and a a bigot.

You did not make your point, you changed the subject to outsourcing. Classic logic fail.

I think it is interesting that you could understand the server but he could not understand you. Maybe you should start speaking in standard American dialect or leave the country. :roll:

[NurseNell]

Like I said in an earlier post, this is potentially 3 million or more jobs that an American company could keep here. They choose not to because it is cheaper to outsource. They pay incredibly low wages, don't have to deal with unions, and it's one less department they need to monitor.

My son's medical billing call in center job was outsourced to India in January 2010. He was unemployed 25 months before finding a lower paying, non benefits job. I'm not big on outsourcing.

[Witsec7]

When I can I am having a hard time with my Meniere's Disease right now. Please note that this is an explanation for the questioned asked about sleep. I am in no way using it to excuse for any of opinions.

Not that hard of a time when you're trolling 24/7.

[RR88]

אני גם דוברת עברית! ואני מסכימה איתכן שזה ממש קשה ללמוד שפה חדשה. למדתי עברית בבית ספר מגיל 3 ואני עדיין עובדת על המבטא.

I see Hebrew on a thread here and I just had to chime in.

As an Israeli-American (in a community with Israelis who don't speak much English), I've had to work hard on my vocab and accent. I happen to be pretty good with languages, but I know I make mistakes all the time. People are understanding. Sometimes they finish my thought for me when I can't find the words. They don't say, "Learn Hebrew, stupid Americayit."

P.S. I love the two conversations going on in this thread at the same time.

There it is again (the word דוברת)! I thought that the correct term was מדברת. Could anyone clue me in and give some insight?

[formergothardite]

My son's medical billing call in center job was outsourced to India in January 2010. He was unemployed 25 months before finding a lower paying, non benefits job. I'm not big on outsourcing.

I don't think anyone is advocating outsourcing. Genie is just mad because people who immigrate here or are born here sometimes have accents she has a hard time understanding. Instead of doing the Christ-like thing (since she claims to be a Christian) and working on developing the fruits of the spirit such as longsuffering and kindness, she just wants everyone to change to please her.

It somehow moved to outsourcing. But originally it was jobs here in America that legal Americans had, but she might have to ask them to repeat something they said.

[Witsec1]

You did not make your point, you changed the subject to outsourcing. Classic logic fail.

I think it is interesting that you could understand the server but he could not understand you. Maybe you should start speaking in standard American dialect or leave the country. :roll:

I agree that changing the conversation to outsourcing is bait and switch. People objected to GB's "if they come here, they should learn to speak English11!!!!" and also to her contention that somehow caring about immigrants and new Americans means we don't care what happens to "real Americans." Since we've actually taken donations to aid said "real Americans" at least once, that is utter BS. Besides, that Jesus guy had something to about who whether we should care only about people who belong to our nationality. Something about a Samaritan, as I recall.

I also agree with the bolded sentence, you echoed my thoughts. Someone could be quite proficient in a language and still have trouble understanding certain dialects of that language - not that this point hasn't already been made in this thread.

I spent 7 years learning German, and then went on a study abroad program in Tübingen, where there's a heavy dialect. I encountered thick Schwäbisch at the post office and even in university classes. Sometimes I felt like begging people to speak High German. I remember in particular a guy at the Post Office getting mad at me for not understanding some word that sounded like "lommerlig" but which I can assure you is in no standard German dictionary. I felt like an idiot that day. Of course, crash courses in Swabian dialect for American students were about as scarce as courses in Appalachian-English for new Americans. A little patience goes a long way.

[Guest Anonymous]

And why exactly are you a Christian again? You don't seem to want to act Christ like in the least little bit.

Because I believe that Jesus Christ is the son of God. When differences of opinion turn into name calling, it's kind of hard to be Christ-like. I'm not a racist bigot who hates immigrants and wants them to leave, and I have never been rude and hostile to anyone I can't understand. And unlke the person the OP mention, I've never pitched a hissy fit.

If you would do a little research, you will find out A LOT of people feel this way, so no, I'm not an entitled, speshul snowflake. I All I'm saying is that they need to learn to speak English in an understandable way since English is the majority language. I never said speak without an accent (we all have one) or use proper grammar (most of us don't). I agree we should help them with that. However, seeing as how our own schools are having a hard time (kids having to bring toilet paper and other things that schools should be supplying because schools don't have the funds for that), I would rather tax payer money benefit out children here in America. If anything I have said makes me a racist bigot, then I don't know what else to say.

[Witsec1]

Un po'. Sono in un corso d'italiano. Ho deciso studiare italiano perché mi piace molto le lingue e per me corsi di lingua di primo anno sono molto facile. Il semestre scorso ero in tre classe di storia e avevo bisogno di stare in un'altra classe facile. Ho pensato che italiano sarebbe divertente e facile e avevo ragione. Pensavo di studiare francese ma ho sentito che il professore di francese 101 era terrible. L'unica cosa che trovo difficile davvero sono le preposizioni. Ma mi piace molto la lingua. È molta bella e mi piace paragonare con lo spagnolo. Il mio problema è che quando cerco di parlare in spagnolo dico "di" invece di "de" e "non lo so" invece di "no sé" ecc ecc.

Yes, I have that problem in languages that aren't even similar. I can read and understand German quite well, and I'm sure my verbal fluency would come back if I were immersed again. I read Russian pretty well and understand spoken Russian somewhat, but speak it very haltingly. I've tried to add Spanish, Italian, and French at various times but my mind will randomly bring up Russian or German words when I'm trying to speak, so I give up. I'm also very sensitive to GenieBelle types when speaking a foreign language, when people exhibit visible impatience or disdain I get even more tongue-tied.

[Guest Anonymous]

agree that changing the conversation to outsourcing is bait and switch

No, I'm just using it as an example of why people get frustrated when they can't understand the person trying to help them.

[SquirrelySquirrel]

I am so envious of those who are fluent in another language! I took 4 years of German in high school and did really well, but I lost it rather quickly. I had nowhere to go to speak German with others after I graduated. I can understand bits and pieces and still make very basic conversation, but I'm sure I'd be lost if I was dropped in the middle of Germany right now.

I thought of this thread on Monday night while watching Dancing with the Stars. The idiot Brooke Burke made a really rude comment about one of the pro dancer's speech. He's an Irishman who is perfectly easy to understand, but she still felt the need to translate what he said into "English." Pretty sure he was a bit hurt when she did it. I know I was seeing red. The majority of the dancers on that show are not from the US, and she doesn't "translate" for anyone else. None of them are difficult to understand, and all of them are speaking English FFS.

[Witsec1]

No, I'm just using it as an example of why people get frustrated when they can't understand the person trying to help them.

Nobody ever denied that it can be frustrating. It is no more frustrating than dealing with other types of impairments that people may have.

[Terrie]

If you would do a little research, you will find out A LOT of people feel this way, so no, I'm not an entitled, speshul snowflake.

You may not be a speshul snowflake, but you're still an entitled brat. There are lots of people who think the Holocaust never happened, or was exaggerated so that Jews could get special treatment. Just because they can find people who agree with them makes them no less disgusting.

[holierthanyou]

An interesting project would be to make an audio clip of various people saying one sentence in English, and then having gb reign from her throne and tell us which of those people 'deserve' to be allowed the extreme privilege of making her a sandwich, and which don't make her illustrious cut.

If I had the technical know-how I would do it myself... include samples from deaf people, latina americans, Appalachians, someone who has a stutter, someone who uses AAVE, a Scot, someone from newfoundland, a person with Down Syndrome, etc, etc. We could record all FJers saying one sentence and seeing who would be allowed to work for minimum wage and serve the great gb her sub without causing her distress at our nasty, nasty, accents.

Oh, but do I wish I had the know-how now!

[JesusFightClub]

Another problem is the culture around a language. I had a German mate who used to get really frustrated with Brits - and her English was fluent - because "You join up thoughts in your head but not out loud". Germans speaking English often come across as quite blunt to me and she felt like UK English speakers were being mysterious or hiding something.

She also struggled with nonstandard grammar. I remember she was going to give a gift to a friend and made a suggestion. I absentmindedly said "She'll just not be wanting that right now, maybe." (It was something very breakable and the friend was moving house.) She looked at me for a minute and then said exasperatedly "Can you say it in English please?" :D

Like FloraPoste I reckon it would be a great idea to have dialect classes. Not to learn to speak in the local accent, but to understand strange words and phrases when they appear.