The Botkinettes on boys. Again. Book sales must be down.

[finleeport]

I wonder if these 'women' have an Electra Complex :?:

(note that I used the puke face in way I think of the Botkinettes, traitors to their own sex)

[Just_Jane]

Interacting with people is like driving a car, you have to put the theory into practice. These ladies haven't even gotten out of the driveway.

I was pondering this SAHD thing, because I am a newbie here and learning so many things, and I realized that the pool of acceptable bachelors has got to be rather small. Once you take out family members, distant family members there really isn't very much out there because most people operate in the real world. Even if you are a more conservative Christian at some point you probably held a girl or boys hand before the engagement. So finding a suitable suitor for courtship for these young ladies has got to be a big quandary so sadly there will always be a percentage that remain unmarried. I can't decide if I find that sad or not. I guess I find it sad because if it's their desire to marry but no one is acceptable enough to meet Daddy's standards then I feel badly. haven't they thought that the man God wants their daughters to be with might just be the rebel bad boy or the scientific atheist.

sorry, i'm pondering here...

[ophelia]

what do you think, how many books have they already sold?

[Hane]

They're back, those experienced, seasoned relationship experts. But this time, they've peppered their little sermonette with hip cultural references and lingo. "Look, we're not so isolated and sheltered! We saw Star Wars (Han Solo!) We've read Twilight (Edward Cullen!)."

And while they may not know the correct spelling of "wookie,"...

Um, yeah, they actually do: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wookiee :geek:

By the approximate time I was their age, I had been married, gotten a bachelor's and a master's degree, had a variety of jobs (professional and non), had a baby, gotten divorced, and learned to support myself and my child. My daughter had done all the same, in a slightly different order, and omitting the divorce part.

So, Botkinettes, you've got a ways to go before you manage to impress me.

[gustava]

Interacting with people is like driving a car, you have to put the theory into practice. These ladies haven't even gotten out of the driveway.

I was pondering this SAHD thing, because I am a newbie here and learning so many things, and I realized that the pool of acceptable bachelors has got to be rather small. Once you take out family members, distant family members there really isn't very much out there because most people operate in the real world. Even if you are a more conservative Christian at some point you probably held a girl or boys hand before the engagement. So finding a suitable suitor for courtship for these young ladies has got to be a big quandary so sadly there will always be a percentage that remain unmarried. I can't decide if I find that sad or not. I guess I find it sad because if it's their desire to marry but no one is acceptable enough to meet Daddy's standards then I feel badly. haven't they thought that the man God wants their daughters to be with might just be the rebel bad boy or the scientific atheist.

sorry, i'm pondering here...

It would be interesting to attempt to identify all the acceptable bachelors in the uber-fundie world, and then narrow the pool to those acceptable to fundie royalty such as the Botkins and Duggars. However, my highly uneducated guess is that Daddy simply cannot

conceive (!) of his daughters having sex. And I agree with others who've brought up the idea of emotional incest.

And remember: Daddy is God, to these girls.

[ophelia]

It would be interesting to attempt to identify all the acceptable bachelors in the uber-fundie world, and then narrow the pool to those acceptable to fundie royalty such as the Botkins and Duggars. However, my highly uneducated guess is that Daddy simply cannot

conceive (!) of his daughters having sex. And I agree with others who've brought up the idea of emotional incest.

And remember: Daddy is God, to these girls.

I totally agree with you, but in their world keeping girls home as long as possible isn't logical at all. Their whole cult is all about taking over the world and breed like rabbits to have the perfect little army of brainwashed soldiers. Especially Pa Botkin is deep into that "faith from generation to generation" - bullshit and so he should start marrying off his daughters so they can have 10+ children.

[dairyfreelife]

As I've said before, these girls are as qualified to write about relationships with men as I am to write about Advanced Physics. That means not at all. They are desperate for sales, aren't they? Doesn't occur to them that almost no one wants to buy a book on interacting with the opposite gender from people who have almost never interacted with anyone outside their family.

Not to derail the OT, but love the prior post on books. Love that she shows her wordly books in Animal Farm and Twilight. Wonder if they got the point of Animal Farm? Twilight was such a good book, I made it half-way and have yet to bother to read on.

The premise of this talk is that girls need to read books that will equip them for this real world, rather than mentally loll in a safe, pretty, imaginary world of dainty hobbies and romantic fantasies. This is why I would be more likely to give my daughter One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovitch than Daddy Long Legs, and it would be because of the gritty realism of the content, not in spite of it.

The problem with Twilight, for instance, is certainly not that it shows girls too much of the big bad world. Its problem is that it plunges them more deeply into a world that doesn’t line up with the rules of reality.

Might be why its called a fantasy, dear. It's not supposed to be reality. Vampires don't exist. Why is imagination so bad with fundies? Imagination is a great and wonderful thing. Fantasy is just that-fantasy.

But then, we should also ask, to what end do we read books like this? This is where I got it wrong in my reading habits as a girl. If we read to amuse ourselves, to get away from it all, or to make ourselves feel smart, then we should ask ourselves how well we’re doing at “taking every thought captive†and “redeeming the time.†When I was in my mid-teens, I became convicted that I needed to be much more deliberate about what I put into my mind and why. Our goal, I realized, should be to look for the books that are the most profitable, the books will equip us to be a more faithful soldiers of Christ. And the goal is also to grow in our appreciation for the perfection of God, God’s reality, and God’s law – and how far superior that is to any invention of man.

Bold mine. Reading Associations call it pleasure reading. And reading to "feel" smart? Reading makes you smarter because you learn more. It's not about feeling smart. If you are reading for any reason, it's worth your time.

And profitable books? Not much profit is being gained from your worthless advice. Lose the arrogance and just admit you don't know much about the world outside of your home.

If girls would realize that they don’t have to go on romantic rambles, tolerate creepy questions, welcome inappropriate flattery, laugh at crude jokes, accept dates, allow over-friendliness, or give away their phone numbers just to be nice, everything would be a lot simpler for them.

Complicated things will happen to us – but “It’s Complicateds†will only happen if we’re playing along. We will make things a whole lot more difficult if we enjoy the attention, become emotionally entangled, lose our level-headedness, relish the drama, or encourage the misdemeanors.

Who wants to bet no one has ever hit on these girls in public? Ever. I would be very surprised if that every happened. Not because they are unattractive girls, but because of how they dress and act. "Worldly" young men are not going to be interested on sight. Seriously, getting hit on is not that bad. If they say inappropriate things about the body as an object then yes, bad, but a little flattery and flirting means he finds you attractive. They don't realize they may just find someone that way. Of course, they would not get that. After all, dating is bad. The natural attractions to the opposite gender are awful and just so wrong.

Our parents can help keep us accountable if our own hearts are swaying. Our fathers are also our secret weapons in the area of dealing with guys. They are the strength that we don’t have – they are the ones that can force the issues for us, the ones who can find out what a young man’s intentions are towards us, the ones who can make sure no one leads us along.

Yes, because my dad would have been so great at picking out a partner for me. He knows exactly what I want in a guy and will always be able to tell better than me what his intentions are. I am just too weak and vulnerable because I was born a woman. My emotionally fragile self will not know when to say no and leave a man and need my daddy's help as an adult to be sure if my decisions are sound.

Interact with Marshall as a sister and not a girlfriend, as though nothing is going on… because nothing is, right? Our pure and sisterly conduct can remind young men what their own should be.

Because that's not the least be creepy.

What’s important is that we keep our hearts open to what God wants… and that’s going to be a lot harder if we’ve already filled that spot with a certain someone.

Because the heart only has so much love to give, right? Won't have enough love for your husband if you fell in love before him.

[freehannie]

But they can't marry just anyone. Papa Botkin has to make sure that any men they marry are willing to tow the line. That's a major problem with these 200 year intergenerational plans... whoever marries into the family has to agree to the terms of the family plan. That's a tough sell. Better to wait until the Botkinettes find men who are willing to create the next generation of followers and lose a few extra children than to risk that they all become heathens. :lol: It seems like it's easier to convince women to marry into this system (see the Botkin wives and Duggar wives) than men. I can't imagine having Papa Botkin for an in-law in either case, but I think the womens' families see an opportunity for their daughters to move up the food chain into more important families. I doubt it is seen the same way for their sons.

[Just_Jane]

Emotional incest is a good term for it. Even if they find someone; will the poor man ever measure up to Daddy. Will these gals be dragging their father into their relationships with their husbands? A healthy marriage can't have three people; husband, wife and wife's father.

I had no idea that there was this fundie royalty. heavens knows you wouldn't want to marry below your station.

[Elle]

Well, that throws all of their credibility out of the window! Han Solo was my first crush! They obv have no taste in men! :doh:

If Han were to ask my magically resurrected dad and I was single, my dad would kick my ass onto the Falcon and tell me to have fun.

Seriously, the best she can come up with is being offered a ride on a kick-ass ship?

[fluttershies]

The idea that potential mates can't find you physically attractive is so odd and not even Biblical - Isaac found Rebekah beautiful and Jacob found Rachel beautiful. The Song of Songs is full of references to physical beauty in a romantic partner being a wonderful thing. There's a difference between objectifying someone and finding them attractive.

[Just_Jane]

I always figured attraction and those giddy love feelings were God or natures way of stacking the deck. after all you'd be more apt to procreate with someone with whom you are attracted to.

[marmalade]

The little pussies don't even have the courage of their convictions to take on any POV that may challenge theirs. Tells me all I need to know about the Botkins and their shoddy operations.

[pixydust]

The little pussies don't even have the courage of their convictions to take on any POV that may challenge theirs. Tells me all I need to know about the Botkins and their shoddy operations.

Do any fundies, really?

[Jezebel]

Interacting with people is like driving a car, you have to put the theory into practice. These ladies haven't even gotten out of the driveway.

Not only that, they haven't even been entrusted with the keys (lest they actually try driving). So all they're doing is sitting there with their hands on the wheel, making "vroom, vroom" and tire-squealing noises, in between reciting passages from the drivers' test study booklet. :lol:

[Witsec7]

I don't enjoy watching the Botkin girls call the plays from the bench when they have never played the game.

[Patsy]

If your friend Han Solo asks if he can take you for a ride in the Millennium Falcon and you are affronted because it is a bucket of bolts and you’ve already kissed romantic intergalactic joyrides goodbye (and you’d rather kiss a wookiee anyway)

So. Tired. Why would you pay for writing like this?

[Boltingmadonna]

Not only that, they haven't even been entrusted with the keys (lest they actually try driving). So all they're doing is sitting there with their hands on the wheel, making "vroom, vroom" and tire-squealing noises, in between reciting passages from the drivers' test study booklet.

LOL!

I don't enjoy watching the Botkin girls call the plays from the bench when they have never played the game.

And again LOL.

Star Wars came out in 1977. So many things have come and gone since then. Alien, Bladerunner, Firefly, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Battlestar Galactica, Game of Thrones. Their references are all so dated. They'll never catch up. On the other hand, if they ever break free, they have a whole world to explore. Maybe in the old folks' home when they're 85 and 87 (still unmarried) and DadBot is finally gone to his reward. . . .

[Marian the Librarian]

Me too, Kailis - every time I post something about them here, I worry that I'm going to stroke out myself, or cause someone else to. They are the P.T. Barnums of fundie-land. There is absolutely, positively nothing "visionary" about sponging off of Daddy and Mommy. Other extremist fundies (Maxwells, etc.) also get to me - but there is something about these two and their Goody Goody Gumdrops, Little Miss Perfect schtick that just makes me want to chew a bowl of carpet tacks.

(PS - love your avatar!)

Edited once to clarify quoting.

[fluttershies]

Yeah, their smugness gets to me like nothing else.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

But they can't marry just anyone. Papa Botkin has to make sure that any men they marry are willing to tow the line. That's a major problem with these 200 year intergenerational plans... whoever marries into the family has to agree to the terms of the family plan. That's a tough sell. Better to wait until the Botkinettes find men who are willing to create the next generation of followers and lose a few extra children than to risk that they all become heathens. :lol: It seems like it's easier to convince women to marry into this system (see the Botkin wives and Duggar wives) than men. I can't imagine having Papa Botkin for an in-law in either case, but I think the womens' families see an opportunity for their daughters to move up the food chain into more important families. I doubt it is seen the same way for their sons.

I don't know if it's necessarily easier to "convince" women to marry into the system - I think if they find women who are already a part of the similar worldview, those women think they have no choice but to follow their husbands, and so... they become part of the husband's family system.

It's long been that way in the patriarchy, really - in the vast majority of cases, women marry into a man's family and carry on that family's business or farm or whatever it is. Fathers give their daughters away, not their sons.

I suspect all of the fundie families that are obsessed with starting their own personal dynasties or cults will always be happy to marry off their sons (because they gain wives for the compound) but not so much their daughters (they lose the daughters).

If PapaBot wants to keep Anna Sophia and Elizabeth, then as you say yeah he'd have to find a fundie boy (fundie enough for HIM) who will be willing to be similar to an "adopted groom" (Japan has it anyway, not sure about the US - the man joins the wife's family registry and continues their name and inheritance instead of the usual way around) so he would become PapaBot's son, buying into PapaBot's vision, and vowing to work for PapaBot rather than starting his own thing OR continuing his own birth parents' vision. For most fundie boys, I suspect that's not high on the list of desires.

Of course, if we go back to feudal rules again (or modern day bigwig inheritance families even) PapaBot can marry off AS or E in order to make a link with the family they would be joining, but is there any family that PapaBot wants to ally with that has eligible sons right now? He seems to think he's top dog already - maybe if there were a suitable Phillips kid it would work. Or if he found a suitable fundie guy in NZ, who would give them a citizenship foothold over there.

Meanwhile, I am not ashamed to admit that I like me some Harrison Ford. Mmmm. :D

[NurseNell]

Did you read the letter from the 16 y.o. well read Christian girl that appears right after the mentioned post? A 16 y.o. gets it, they don't.

Basically what I’m trying to say is, I think you may be doing a disservice to the young women reading your blog. By telling them to so carefully guard they’re hearts, you end up turning them from learning. If your Faith is true, it will survive any false opinion, idea, or doctrine. Instead, you should more vehemently encourage curiosity about the world and its ideas. I realize young minds can be pliable, but only through the observation and study of things, can we understand them. I.E. We cannot understand redemption unless we understand sin. We can’t understand what it is to be saved if we’ve never been in trouble.

[GenerationCedarchip]

The more I read the Botkinettes' site, the creepier it gets to me. Just to put it in perspective, even most fundies don't seem to be that strict. I know someone from my old church who now runs a Titus 2 training center for girls and there's some pretty whacky stuff taught there but they look like hedonists compared to the Botkinettes lately.

[rebelsaint]

Did you read the letter from the 16 y.o. well read Christian girl that appears right after the mentioned post? A 16 y.o. gets it, they don't.

Damn. I hope the Botkinettes have egg on their faces after reading that.

I too can't read that site for too long because it makes me SO angry. I can't help but think they're going to feel foolish in ten years when they're still not married.

[doggie]

Interacting with people is like driving a car, you have to put the theory into practice. These ladies haven't even gotten out of the driveway.

Hell they have not even heard of a car yet.