Homosexuality is detrimental and ultimately destructive

[Witsec1]

CC3 - do you think gay sex should be illegal? Why or why not?

[Arielkay]

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

I don't see anything about homosexuality in there, or gay marriage. I DO see a lot of crap that many people - even Christians! - have been guilty of quite a bit.

[Guest Anonymous]

In the first instance, I suspect Jesus was writing the sins of the Pharisees who wanted to stone the woman.

Why do you assume the second sinner was homosexual. That's news to me. A centurion was a Roman officer of approx. 100 soldiers. It really doesn't matter what his sin was because Jesus came to heal.

Here is the part of the NT that is hard to get around and makes me not want gay marriage legal. Romans 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

Okay, can you answer my previous questions? Not every Christian agrees with your interpretation of the Bible. Why does your interpretation win? Why do you have to legislate your religion so that it affects people who don't subscribe to it? Would you want that done to you?

You say that you're against gay marriage but you don't want to kill gay people even though the Bible says that's what you should do. The passage you quoted even says (according to you) that people who do something that's on the list of bad things deserve to die. Are you campaigning right now to make gossip illegal? Are you running around saying that haughty and boastful people or those who are disobedient to their parents should not be able to get married? Why not? It's all in the same list. Why have you picked out one thing as more evil than all of the others?

[CC3]

CC3, what are you doing to try and end divorced people from getting divorced and getting remarried? That's against the Bible too.

True, getting divorce for reasons other than unfaithfulness is not God's plan. In a perfect world, there would be no divorce. My parents divorced when I was young. At the time, there was a lot of stigma attached to it. I think it is too easy to get a divorced now with "irreconcilable differences" as the cause, but here comes the part that may seem hypocritical, a husband and wife can divorce and remarry others and it is legal. Some even get remarried in the church. It may not be right, but I personally am only doing premarital counseling in our church with my husband so young couples have education on communication and finances, etc. before they get married. So far, in the past eleven years, none of the couples who went through the class have separated or divorced. So yes, it would be better to not get divorced, but at this point in time, I am doing the best I can to help the situation.

[Witsec7]

I can answer for myself. I usually am in the minority in the work place and in society in general, but that is the choice I made. Following Christ is now in my make-up as an individual. Just as you are part of LGBT most likely and derive your personal beliefs from who you say you are. You say you can't separate out being gay as a lifestyle just like I cannot separate out my Christianity. Unfortunately, it puts us at odds with each other. I find it just as frustrating as you do that there can't be a middle ground. I love compromises, but you won't compromise and neither will I.

Statistically christianity is the dominant religion in the US. I'm assuming you live in the US since you are addressing gay marriage in this country. You need to put the bibl down for a bit and perhaps read some nonfiction for a while.

I noticed that in the course of your posting on this thread you have not address questions asked of you. I'm waiting to find out how my cousins marriage to his long term partner impacts your marriage?

[shesinsane]

I can answer for myself. I usually am in the minority in the work place and in society in general, but that is the choice I made. Following Christ is now in my make-up as an individual. Just as you are part of LGBT most likely and derive your personal beliefs from who you say you are. You say you can't separate out being gay as a lifestyle just like I cannot separate out my Christianity. Unfortunately, it puts us at odds with each other. I find it just as frustrating as you do that there can't be a middle ground. I love compromises, but you won't compromise and neither will I.

That's a load of horse shit. Nothing about homosexuality is anti-religion, and not every Christian is a homophobe. You claim your Christianity makes you oppose homosexuality, but there are lots of Christians that disagree, and would likely object to your assumption that Christians must be at odds with homosexuals.

Most people know about Lot and Soddom and the pillar of salt. Afterwards, thinking they needed to repopulate the earth, Lots daughters decided to get him drunk and have sex with him. I haven't seen anything from the movement to defend the family by encouraging widowers to marry their daughters, even though it's in the Bible.

[synchroswimr]

I'd like to understand why CC3's interpretation of a religious text should control civil law in the United States.

[Guest Anonymous]

I'd like to understand why CC3's interpretation of a religious text should control civil law in the United States.

Me too. I'd also like to know if she would be totally cool with living in a theocracy that wasn't based on her particular version of her particular religion. Somehow I don't think she would be.

[Witsec1]

I'd like to understand why CC3's interpretation of a religious text should control civil law in the United States.

Yes, particularly since her interpretation of the text also limits the religious freedom of other Americans who belong to the Judeo-Christian faith tradition. There are many churches and synagogues who perform weddings for gay couples, but the minister or rabbi is prohibited by law from signing a certificate that makes the marriage "legal". How is that religious freedom?

Riffledit

[formergothardite]

True, getting divorce for reasons other than unfaithfulness is not God's plan. In a perfect world, there would be no divorce. My parents divorced when I was young. At the time, there was a lot of stigma attached to it. I think it is too easy to get a divorced now with "irreconcilable differences" as the cause, but here comes the part that may seem hypocritical, a husband and wife can divorce and remarry others and it is legal. Some even get remarried in the church. It may not be right, but I personally am only doing premarital counseling in our church with my husband so young couples have education on communication and finances, etc. before they get married. So far, in the past eleven years, none of the couples who went through the class have separated or divorced. So yes, it would be better to not get divorced, but at this point in time, I am doing the best I can to help the situation.

Why aren't you actively trying to pass laws to invalidate all the divorces/remarriages that are not biblical? Like you said, it is totally hypocritical for you to be trying to stop gay people from getting married and not trying to stop the other. Are there people in your church who have divorced for non-biblcal reasons or gotten married after that sort of divorce? Have you confronted them and told them they are living in sin? Do you make sure that they have no leadership/teaching/helping place in your church since they are living a life that is against the Bible? If you do not, would you let an actively gay couple do those things in your church?

[spragger]

Here is the part of the NT that is hard to get around and makes me not want gay marriage legal. Romans 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

This is why I don't even question why Christians would be against homosexuality. My problem is that I am not Christian and shouldn't have to follow its tenets. We are also protected in this country regarding laws respecting religion while we are supposed to have equal rights under the law.

What I do have a problem with is how people can rationalize to themselves as Christians that you can be Christian and pick and choose which parts you are going to follow. I guess then I would mirror CC3 (who btw is an obvious troll) , because I had to reject Christianity because I know in my heart that there is nothing wrong with same-sex relationships, or being gay. It's just a natural variant. Humans to not all fit one mold.

It is no different than my being left-handed (which was also once considered sinful). I think the percent of the population that is left-handed is very close to the percentage of gays. My grandmother was beaten until she stopped writing with her left hand. Is it any more just to commit these acts against gay people?

[spragger]

Why aren't you actively trying to pass laws to invalidate all the divorces/remarriages that are not biblical? Like you said, it is totally hypocritical for you to be trying to stop gay people from getting married and not trying to stop the other. Are there people in your church who have divorced for non-biblcal reasons or gotten married after that sort of divorce? Have you confronted them and told them they are living in sin? Do you make sure that they have no leadership/teaching/helping place in your church since they are living a life that is against the Bible? If you do not, would you let an actively gay couple do those things in your church?

Not to mention that many churches preach that abuse is not grounds for divorce. How does that seem ethical? Doesn't it set off alarm bells in your brain that there is obviously something wrong with a religion that claims that as true?

[Aurora]

.

I'm not gay either but I support gay marriage. Obviously a majority of the folks who support gay marriage are not gay, since this is a majority of the public (in my country).

Jesus taught about love, kindness and compassion. So why should I not have kindness and empathy toward my gay peers and friends? Marriage is a basic human wish and dream that we all have, why should we deny it to certain people arbitrarily, that is cruel.

[Renting with Raggles]

You have no clue what you are talking about and making huge assumptions about me.

That's the best part, isn't it, CC3? After you've found a way to force people to live by your religious dogma, there's a projection loophole. Hey these aren't my rules, they're gawd's! You can't force Jews to sit through sermons on Sundays the way you could back in the 16th century, but by Dog, you can exercise power over a minority group!

I've noticed you don't touch on the actual effects your actions have on LGBT people versus the effects they have on you - a sure sign that you know that your stance is purely vindictive. In other words, your actions punish the LGBT community whereas their actions have no effect on you. And that's a distinction you want to keep mum about, isn't it?

We know you're a liar because:

- You don't campaign against divorce (as you would if you truly believed in 1 man/ 1 woman for life.)

- You don't campaign to nullify atheists' marriages (as you would if you believed that marriage had to be 'Biblically' based.)

- You don't campaign to criminalise sodomy in heterosexuals (as you would if you believed that sexuality was a moral issue*.)

So yeah, there's no assumptions to be made here. Your actions speak for themselves and belie your words. It's an inherintly hypocritical stance.

* I'm an atheist who loves oral sex and pegged the hell out of my last two/ current boyfriends - and you'll never be able to stop me from marrying! Not so much fun, is it, when you can only think of my torments in hell after I'm dead, rather than making me miserable during my life? Too bad, so sad! :lol:

[doggie]

I can answer for myself. I usually am in the minority in the work place and in society in general, but that is the choice I made. Following Christ is now in my make-up as an individual. Just as you are part of LGBT most likely and derive your personal beliefs from who you say you are. You say you can't separate out being gay as a lifestyle just like I cannot separate out my Christianity. Unfortunately, it puts us at odds with each other. I find it just as frustrating as you do that there can't be a middle ground. I love compromises, but you won't compromise and neither will I.

Cry a river build a bridge and get over it. You are in the majority and you are not persecuted. Then try to follow Jesus and not the church.

[formergothardite]

Not to mention that many churches preach that abuse is not grounds for divorce. How does that seem ethical? Doesn't it set off alarm bells in your brain that there is obviously something wrong with a religion that claims that as true?

Technically I don't think abuse is mentioned in the Bible as a reason for divorce, so if CC3 is going to be sticking to biblical marriage for the entire country, then she needs to invalidate all the women who divorced husbands who beat them.

And if she isn't doing these things, then she needs to own up that she doesn't give a shit about what the Bible really says about marriage, she just doesn't like gay people.

[spragger]

* I'm an atheist who loves oral sex and pegged the hell out of my last two/ current boyfriends - and you'll never be able to stop me from marrying! Not so much fun, is it, when you can only think of my torments in hell after I'm dead, rather than making me miserable during my life? Too bad, so sad! :lol:

LMAO at this. Pitching can be as fun as catching.

[hapamama]

He's a sad little washed up has been, isn't he?

Religion is a lifestyle choice. You can choose to be Christian. You can choose to be a fundie. You can choose to be open-minded or close-minded about differing lifestyle choices.

Want to know what's not a choice? Being a human. Needing air to breathe, shelter, sustenance, love...

[keeperrox]

Me too. I'd also like to know if she would be totally cool with living in a theocracy that wasn't based on her particular version of her particular religion. Somehow I don't think she would be.

Me three. I have a few friends who would love to marry their partners just like I've married my husband, but PA law says they can't. Why should YOUR religion dictate what my state government (or federal, which is where I would hope that it's ultimately decided) makes legal or illegal?

[hapamama]

I'd also like to add this.

If your marriage is threatened by the legalization of gay marriage, that's between you and your spouse. The brief amount of time that gay marriage was legal in California didn't make me rush out and divorce my husband and go marry a woman. The thought never crossed my mind.

[Renting with Raggles]

LMAO at this. Pitching can be as fun as catching.

Hey, straight people commit more sodomy than all my LGBT family/ friends combined.What's worse, liberals don't even have the decency to feel ashamed about experiencing different kinds of pleasure!

CC3 can think about that while she stares at the ceiling in her cold bed. It must suck, not to be able to dictate another person's private life and order them to adhere to her religious standards. And she won't even have the lesbians to kick around much longer. I feel for her.

[formergothardite]

It appears that CC3 cherry picks which questions she will answer just as much as she/he cherry picks which Bible verses to obey.

[spragger]

It appears that CC3 cherry picks which questions she will answer just as much as she/he cherry picks which Bible verses to obey.

Maybe she is at Bible study and will come back later. :roll:

[Witsec7]

LMAO at this. Pitching can be as fun as catching.

:clap: :clap:

[debrand]

Because no one answered CC3's question about the Roman soldier, I will

the reason that it can be assumed that he was at least bisexual is because of the way in which Romans viewed sex. Class was attached to sex. A high ranking Roman male could have sex with lower ranking people of either gender as long as he did the penetrating. Male Romans coud have sex with slaves, their subordinates, people of lower status etc. It is very likely the Roman centurion had engaged in sexual relationships with men. Jesus does not appear ignorant of pagan ways. At one point, he tells people not to pray like the gentiles(sp?). It is unlikely that he was ignorant of Roman sexual practices.

So, the fact that he said NOTHING is pretty telling.