Homosexuality is detrimental and ultimately destructive

[CC3]

You didn't know that interracial marriage was illegal in many states until the Supreme Court struck down anti-miscegenation laws in 1967? Well, here's a history lesson for you:

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Just like same-sex marriage, people who were against it trotted out religious justifications. And just like same-sex marriage, believing that a particular god doesn't want people of different races to marry is not a valid reason to deny those couples the benefits and responsibilities of legal marriage.

I was being sarcastic about a history lesson. Obviously, I am aware of civil rights movement. :shock:

[QAF_Rocks]

I was being sarcastic about a history lesson. Obviously, I am aware of civil rights movement.

All right, but you said you weren't aware of people preaching that different races couldn't get married. I was pointing out that people did, in fact, preach that all the time. They were just as much against interracial marriages as you are against same-sex marriages, and for exactly the same reasons. They believed that it wasn't what their god wanted to happen.

[CC3]

Does this mean you've stopped voting? Well, I can get behind that! Keep up the good work there!

[Austin]

Just as an aside, HBO's The Loving Story is a really good documentary.

[QAF_Rocks]

I would campaign against it if it comes up in the future.

You say that so casually. How nice for you that you have all the power in the situation. How nice for you that you're not a member of a stigmatized minority group. You wouldn't like it so much if the shoe was on the other foot. Imagine if people were constantly starting up campaigns to ban Christian couples from getting married. You wouldn't be so complacent then.

People like this make me want to scream. You can believe whatever you want in your church. I don't care about that. But not everyone believes in your god, and whatever you think your god does or doesn't say about homosexuality is completely irrelevant to civil marriage.

[QAF_Rocks]

Just as an aside, HBO's The Loving Story is a really good documentary.

I enjoyed it! There was also a movie version: Mr. and Mrs. Loving from 1996. Both are well worth watching. :)

[doggie]

You say that so casually. How nice for you that you have all the power in the situation. How nice for you that you're not a member of a stigmatized minority group. You wouldn't like it so much if the shoe was on the other foot. Imagine if people were constantly starting up campaigns to ban Christian couples from getting married. You wouldn't be so complacent then.

People like this make me want to scream. You can believe whatever you want in your church. I don't care about that. But not everyone believes in your god, and whatever you think your god does or doesn't say about homosexuality is completely irrelevant to civil marriage.

She is a member of a stigmatized group she is a persecuted christian that is loosing her religious freedom. :pray:

[tingeofginge]

CC3, are you going to answer the questions you've been asked? I'm particularly interested in why it's so important that gay marriage be illegal when it's very easy for anyone against it to NOT HAVE ONE.

I just love how some christians use "god" as an excuse for their own bigoted beliefs. News flash, CC3, there is no evidence that god even exists. :roll: Why the hell should we be making laws (much less laws that keep civil rights from groups of people) based on what some people interpret as a supernatural being's words?

[spragger]

Doggie, it is in the Bible about people of the same sex living like married couples. I'll look it up for you tomorrow. Actually, God has plenty to say about gays.

As far as the civil rights movement, it was before my time. I don't know anyone preaching that different races can't get married. Maybe you can give me a history lesson.

I'm sorry you don't agree with God. I'm sure it sounds harsh to you when I say no about gay marriage. Over half the American public agrees with me, last time I checked. But that really doesn't matter. I'm tired and going to bed, but I will look it up tomorrow. Good night.

You do need a history lesson--or you could bother to educate yourself by reading about it.

Today's protests about Socialism and Gay Rights mirror those about Communism and Racial Integration in the 60's. They are using the same BS scare tactics. There were a lot of people who agreed with racial segregation as well. They were small-minded, bigoted assholes, though, so I am glad to not count myself among them.

Here's the reality: "What is popular is not always right and what is right is not always popular."

People spewing this hatred will eventually be defeated, just like before, and with time these beliefs will seem just as archaic.

Not everybody is Christian. Get over it. Congress is not supposed to make any laws respecting religion. The only argument against gay marriage is a religious one. Therefore, there should be no laws denying people equal rights under the law--particularly when based on religious beliefs.

This is about how marriage is defined by our government, not how your religion (and imaginary friend) choose to define it.

[Austin]

CC3, whether you "agree" with same-sex marriage or not, how does it hurt or even affect you? Why would you campaign against it?

[doggie]

CC3, whether you "agree" with same-sex marriage or not, how does it hurt or even affect you? Why would you campaign against it?

she told you because she knows god is against it. Do you need more reasons?

If we are made in gods image why can't we be invisible?

[formergothardite]

CC3, what are you actively doing to stop divorce (for none biblical reasons) and remarriage? That seems to be more rampant and do more harm to marriage than gay people getting married.

Shouldn't you be trying to get laws passed to stop it? Shouldn't you be contacting all the politicians you can to get them on board?

[spragger]

And I see that you're cherry picking the bits of the Bible that you want to follow and abandoning the rest. That's fine, everyone does it. I do it. But at least admit it - and while you're at it, explain to me why the laws regarding what you eat, wear, plant, and how you deal with rape victims/rapists were fulfilled and should no longer be observed, but the laws dealing with gay people are still in effect?

This is what I don't understand! Personally, I had to rule Christianity out as true because I read the entire Bible and decided I could not in good conscious accept Statement A if knew Statements B and C to be untrue. The same was true of Islam.

Why do people choose to look the other way at horrible things in their sacred religious texts? Are they just so afraid of death? Is it solely based on a rationalization due to cognitive dissonance? How can so many people be so unwilling to look at reality? I don't get it.

I would love to find a religion that coincides with what I know in my heart to be true principles, but I've yet to see one yet that was not full of hatred and contradictions.

[Austin]

she told you because she knows god is against it. Do you need more reasons?

If we are made in gods image why can't we be invisible?

It is a serious question. Even back in my fundie-lite days, when my church's stance on gay marriage was very negative, I never understood how the issue affected me. How could someone else's marriage affect me or my marriage? It just never seemed to me, even before I became the ebil librul that I am now, that I had skin in that game.

So I'd like to know from CC3 how she feels that this issue even affects her.

[formergothardite]

Has CC3 addressed the fact that Jesus didn't come to do away with the laws in the OT, he came to fullfill (and from what I have read a better translation would be to exalt or raise higher) the Law.

[CC3]

She is a member of a stigmatized group she is a persecuted christian that is loosing her religious freedom. :pray:

I can answer for myself. Unfortunately, it puts us at odds with each other. I find it just as frustrating as you do that there can't be a middle ground. I love compromises, but you won't compromise and neither will I.

[Austin]

I can answer for myself. I usually am in the minority in the work place and in society in general, but that is the choice I made. Following Christ is now in my make-up as an individual. Just as you are part of LGBT most likely and derive your personal beliefs from who you say you are. You say you can't separate out being gay as a lifestyle just like I cannot separate out my Christianity. Unfortunately, it puts us at odds with each other. I find it just as frustrating as you do that there can't be a middle ground. I love compromises, but you won't compromise and neither will I.

How does gay marriage affect you personally, CC3, and why would you actively campaign against it?

[Guest Anonymous]

CC3, are you going to answer the questions you've been asked? I'm particularly interested in why it's so important that gay marriage be illegal when it's very easy for anyone against it to NOT HAVE ONE.

Yeah, it hasn't escaped my notice that she accused me of "twisting God's words" being "against her" and flung out some easily refutable statements about the Bible, and then ignored me when I addressed what she said. She responded to other posts after me but had nothing to say about how she said I was doing something I didn't do. Some might call that lying. :?

Has CC3 addressed the fact that Jesus didn't come to do away with the laws in the OT, he came to fullfill (and from what I have read a better translation would be to exalt or raise higher) the Law.

Nope. She thinks he did away with the laws that would be inconvenient for her, but not the other ones, apparently.

[holierthanyou]

I can answer for myself. I usually am in the minority in the work place and in society in general, but that is the choice I made. Following Christ is now in my make-up as an individual. Just as you are part of LGBT most likely and derive your personal beliefs from who you say you are. You say you can't separate out being gay as a lifestyle just like I cannot separate out my Christianity. Unfortunately, it puts us at odds with each other. I find it just as frustrating as you do that there can't be a middle ground. I love compromises, but you won't compromise and neither will I.

Your circular logic is bullshit. "Following Christ" doesn't mean you have to be a bigot. Jesus Christ himself is recorded as having said a sum total of zero words about gay marriage, so to pretend you are "just following orders" from Jesus when you campaign against gay marriage is ridiculous.

Check out www.Jesus.com

Educate yourself.

[QAF_Rocks]

I can answer for myself. I usually am in the minority in the work place and in society in general, but that is the choice I made. Following Christ is now in my make-up as an individual.

Like I said, you can believe whatever you want, but please don't pretend that being a Christian makes you part of a minority. The vast majority of Americans identify as Christians, whether they belong to your particular denomination or not, and even more than that have supernatural beliefs of one sort or another. "Society in general" views prayer and faith in the biblical deity as a good thing, and Republicans and Democrats alike fall all over themselves to convince the public how pious they are.

Just as you are part of LGBT most likely and derive your personal beliefs from who you say you are. You say you can't separate out being gay as a lifestyle just like I cannot separate out my Christianity. Unfortunately, it puts us at odds with each other.

I have no idea what that second sentence means. No one is asking you to "separate out" your Christianity. No one is trying to force your church to conduct same-sex marriages. Your religion is your religion. It is not my religion, and you have no right to force your religious views into our civil marriage laws. Whatever you think your god wants, it's simply not relevant. We do not live in a theocracy.

I find it interesting that you seem to assume that "most likely" I am LGBT. As it happens, I am in a heterosexual relationship, but I support the rights of my LGBT friends and family members to have access to marriage. There is absolutely no reason to restrict marriage to heterosexual couples.

I find it just as frustrating as you do that there can't be a middle ground. I love compromises, but you won't compromise and neither will I.

What do you propose as a compromise? You have not indicated that you are at all in favor of any sort of "middle ground," as you have said that you will actively campaign against same-sex marriage if it comes up in your state, despite the fact that same-sex couples and families do not hurt you or affect your life in the slightest.

[Witsec1]

CC3, can you answer formergothardite's question? Do you think divorce after remarriage should be legal? Why or why not?

[CC3]

Jesus, speaking to a likely adulteress:

Jesus, speaking to a likely homosexual:

See how he didn't bother to mention sin in the second one? Even though he bothered to bring it up in the first?

In the first instance, I suspect Jesus was writing the sins of the Pharisees who wanted to stone the woman.

Why do you assume the second sinner was homosexual. That's news to me. A centurion was a Roman officer of approx. 100 soldiers. It really doesn't matter what his sin was because Jesus came to heal.

Here is the part of the NT that is hard to get around and makes me not want gay marriage legal. Romans 1:24 Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves,25 because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.

26 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. For their women exchanged natural relations for those that are contrary to nature;27 and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in themselves the due penalty for their error.

28 And since they did not see fit to acknowledge God, God gave them up to a debased mind to do what ought not to be done.29 They were filled with all manner of unrighteousness, evil, covetousness, malice. They are full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, maliciousness. They are gossips,30 slanderers, haters of God, insolent, haughty, boastful, inventors of evil, disobedient to parents,31 foolish, faithless, heartless, ruthless.32 Though they know God's decree that those who practice such things deserve to die, they not only do them but give approval to those who practice them.

[holierthanyou]

[Arielkay]

I find it interesting that you seem to assume that "most likely" I am LGBT. As it happens, I am in a heterosexual relationship, but I support the rights of my LGBT friends and family members to have access to marriage. There is absolutely no reason to restrict marriage to heterosexual couples.

Oh, of course - you can only support gay marriage if you are gay. Just like you can only be pro-choice if you've had an abortion. Just be in it for yourself, to hell with loving your neighbor.

Can we stone CC3 for being an idiot? I know it's not in the Bible but . . .

[slickcat79]

I usually am in the minority in the work place and in society in general, but that is the choice I made. Following Christ is now in my make-up as an individual. Just as you are part of LGBT most likely and derive your personal beliefs from who you say you are. You say you can't separate out being gay as a lifestyle just like I cannot separate out my Christianity. Unfortunately, it puts us at odds with each other. I find it just as frustrating as you do that there can't be a middle ground. I love compromises, but you won't compromise and neither will I.

Wow, aren't you a speshul little snowflake. Millions of christians in the US manage to "compromise" enough to support gay rights and still be christians, but I guess they're Doing It Wrong :roll:

All that aside, why on earth should your religious beliefs (or anyone else's) dictate this country's laws? We decided a long time ago that in an ideal society, the opinions of the majority shouldn't dictate the rights of a minority.