Homosexuality is detrimental and ultimately destructive

[CC3]

//////////

[ems]

Brely related but it drives me nuts when the Christians always go on about marriage is between ONE man and ONE woman. it's like they ignore the gabilliion (my made up number) examples of polygyny done in their Bible. I don't believe there is any scripture that actually limits the number of partners permitted in the Bible, no?

This.

[ems]

Brely related but it drives me nuts when the Christians always go on about marriage is between ONE man and ONE woman. it's like they ignore the gabilliion (my made up number) examples of polygyny done in their Bible. I don't believe there is any scripture that actually limits the number of partners permitted in the Bible, no?

Another thing is that I'm pretty sure Genesis doesn't describe Adam and Eve having a wedding, or being "married," or anything as we take it today. It's taken as a given, and later the words husband and wife are used (I think) but for all the fundie obsession with marriage as a God-created institute instead of a social one, it's not like God came down and gave Adam and Eve a marriage certificate.

Also, God made Adam and Eve, but I'm sure he's also made people named Adam and Steve who happen to be coupled. :P. And I'm not so sure He has a problem with that.

[ThisOlGirl]

STOP PERSECUTING KIRK CAMERON!!!!!!!!!!

Kirk Cameron has responded to the media firestorm that has occurred since his remarks to Piers Morgan over the weekend that homosexuality is "unnatural...detrimental" and "ultimately destructive to so many of the foundations of civilization.â€

Says Cameron in a statement to ABC News:

"I spoke as honestly as I could, but some people believe my responses were not loving toward those in the gay community. That is not true. I can assuredly say that it’s my life’s mission to love all people. I should be able to express moral views on social issues, especially those that have been the underpinning of Western civilization for 2,000 years — without being slandered, accused of hate speech, and told from those who preach ‘tolerance’ that I need to either bend my beliefs to their moral standards or be silent when I’m in the public square. I believe we need to learn how to debate these things with greater love and respect,†and added, “I’ve been encouraged by the support of many friends (including gay friends, incidentally).â€

Can you imagine being gay and having Kirk as a friend? I'll believe Kirk has gay friends when those gay friends actually step forward to defend him.

[Deleted03]

Because no one answered CC3's question about the Roman soldier, I will

the reason that it can be assumed that he was at least bisexual is because of the way in which Romans viewed sex. Class was attached to sex. A high ranking Roman male could have sex with lower ranking people of either gender as long as he did the penetrating. Male Romans coud have sex with slaves, their subordinates, people of lower status etc. It is very likely the Roman centurion had engaged in sexual relationships with men. Jesus does not appear ignorant of pagan ways. At one point, he tells people not to pray like the gentiles(sp?). It is unlikely that he was ignorant of Roman sexual practices.

So, the fact that he said NOTHING is pretty telling.

I just wanted to add the wikipedia quote (I know it's not encyclopedia) to clarify the acceptable partners.

Acceptable male partners were slaves, prostitutes, and entertainers, whose lifestyle placed them in the nebulous social realm of infamia, excluded from the normal protections accorded a citizen even if they were technically free. Although Roman men in general seem to have preferred youths between the ages of 12 and 20 as sexual partners, freeborn male minors were strictly off-limits, and professional prostitutes and entertainers might be considerably older.

[Terrie]

Thinking about the Adam and Eve thing, many of these same people harp on how children do best with a mother and a father. But one of Adam and Eve's kids killed the other one, so I'm not sure it's such a great model.

[No Fun My Babe]

This is why I don't even question why Christians would be against homosexuality. My problem is that I am not Christian and shouldn't have to follow its tenets. We are also protected in this country regarding laws respecting religion while we are supposed to have equal rights under the law.

What I do have a problem with is how people can rationalize to themselves as Christians that you can be Christian and pick and choose which parts you are going to follow. I guess then I would mirror CC3 (who btw is an obvious troll) , because I had to reject Christianity because I know in my heart that there is nothing wrong with same-sex relationships, or being gay. It's just a natural variant. Humans to not all fit one mold.

It is no different than my being left-handed (which was also once considered sinful). I think the percent of the population that is left-handed is very close to the percentage of gays. My grandmother was beaten until she stopped writing with her left hand. Is it any more just to commit these acts against gay people?

+10000000000000

This left-handed dyke approves this comment!

CC3, I think I remember you talking about how you'd have to "adjust" if one of your kids told you they were gay. How you'd have to mourn the loss or some such bs.

Here's the truth: You can think women kissing women or men kissing men is icky. I don't agree, but everyone has a right to their beliefs, no matter how idiotic they may be.

Personally, I would never get married. I think it's pretty much a nice little piece of paper telling you that the government validates you. But, I understand the legal, social, and personal aspects of marriage for most people. I would never tell anyone they shouldn't be allowed to marry and would fight with my last breath for marriage for everyone, LGBT, or hetero.

It's such a crock that a man and a woman who've known each other a day can get married and it's A-OKAY in the eyes of the law, but one of my best friends can't legally marry his loving partner of 6 years and have it recognized everywhere. It makes my blood boil! It should make every decent human's blood boil!

I'm going to end this on a less diplomatic note. You can have your beliefs. But the minute you try to force those beliefs on my friend or any of my LGBT kin, and deny their right to happiness, eat me.

[jesusfreak]

Not surprisingly, Stephen Baldwin supports Kirk Cameron:

Baldwin tweeted, "GREAT JOB Kirk !!! Let's pray one day Piers Morgan finds true Salvation, God Bless!"

[Guest Anonymous]

+10000000000000

This left-handed dyke approves this comment!

CC3, I think I remember you talking about how you'd have to "adjust" if one of your kids told you they were gay. How you'd have to mourn the loss or some such bs.

I think that was actually CustardTart.

**Edited to remove the space between Custard and Tart, and for fuck the both of them anyway.

[Witsec7]

she told you because she knows god is against it. Do you need more reasons?

If we are made in gods image why can't we be invisible?

Think this through. We live in the PNW, being invisible means we would have to turn the heat up to eleventy in order to stay warm. :lol:

[CC3]

I'd like CC3 to answer this. It isn't that I am trying to single you out, CC3 but I think that stance against gay marriage based on 'biblical' principles is not actually based on the bible. The New Testament tells Christians how to act. It doesn't tell Christians to force nonChristians to accept their view of moral behavior. Remember, bisexuality among Roman men was accepted during that time period. Yet there is no bible verse telling Chrisitan to prevent Roman men from having sex with other men, for instance.

I already answered the marriage question to the best of my ability. And debrand, you are correct that Jesus was instructing his followers on how they should live. We are to love our neighbors as we love ourselves is what it boils down to.

When I went to college, there was a slogan people kept saying "you can't legislate morality." It sounds like it could be true, but it's not. Our laws are based on the author of each laws sense of morality which obviously includes his/her faith or lack of faith in their God. If it wasn't against the law for Roman men to engage in bisexuality, I suppose the lawmakers of the time saw nothing wrong with it. Many of our laws were written by practicing Christians legislating what marriage means, when divorce can be decreed, even what sex acts are legal and so forth. Times could change and lots of laws could become anti-Christian. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

[No Fun My Babe]

I think that was actually CustardTart.

**Edited to remove the space between Custard and Tart, and for fuck the both of them anyway.

You're right. :oops: My crappy memory haunts me again!

Sorry for the mistaken identity, but only for that.

[JesusFightClub]

STOP PERSECUTING KIRK CAMERON!!!!!!!!!!

Can you imagine being gay and having Kirk as a friend? I'll believe Kirk has gay friends when those gay friends actually step forward to defend him.

Why should he be entitled to say whatever he wants without consequences?

If you say certain things, in any country on the globe, you will be facing a negative reaction. I wouldn't run through a train carriage of Rangers supporters shouting "Tiocfaidh ar la" or yell at people that Teh Gay is evil, without expecting, um, a less than positive reaction.

[browngrl]

I don't think that CC3's interpretation of the bible is correct but if it is - then it is just one more reason for me to never ever even consider worshiping her/his god.Based on her/his comments her/his god sounds like an asshole. Frankly I can not imagine how anyone would want to worship a god that was so cruel as to create queer people and then turn around and offer those people nothing but hate. A god like that does not deserve worship IMO.

[CC3]

You say that so casually. How nice for you that you have all the power in the situation. How nice for you that you're not a member of a stigmatized minority group. You wouldn't like it so much if the shoe was on the other foot. Imagine if people were constantly starting up campaigns to ban Christian couples from getting married. You wouldn't be so complacent then.

People like this make me want to scream. You can believe whatever you want in your church. I don't care about that. But not everyone believes in your god, and whatever you think your god does or doesn't say about homosexuality is completely irrelevant to civil marriage.

Let me get this straight. I should not campaign for what I think is right if it disagrees with your opinion or lifestyle.

[FundiesInMyFamily]

Let me get this straight. I should not campaign for what I think is right if it disagrees with your opinion or lifestyle.

Yes, that's exactly right. Do what you want in your own church, home, and bedroom; keep your opinions to yourself when it comes to others and their homes and bedrooms.

[Renting with Raggles]

Many of our laws were written by practicing Christians legislating what marriage means, when divorce can be decreed, even what sex acts are legal and so forth.

You'll publically attempt the first but not the others.

Hypocrite. Coward. Liar

C'mon CC3, put your money where your mouth is (not anywhere near anyone's genitalia, we know that for sure), pull up the granny pants and try and pick on someone your own size. Punish your sinning mother for her divorce, prevent her from remarrying. Make sure she can't inherit anything that your stepfather leaves her. Make it so she can't visit her stepchildren in hospital. A little too close to home, huh? Coward.

Or come after me! I told you all about the pegging - you had better try to legislate some form of punishment. Too lazy to form a moral police force for me? Afraid that the numbers of hetero-sodomites are too vast? Coward.

The fact that you single out LGBT people speaks volumes. You're a big tough bully when it comes to the minority, but you're a snivelling coward when you're up against the vast majority.

[Witsec7]

I can answer for myself. I usually am in the minority in the work place and in society in general, but that is the choice I made. Following Christ is now in my make-up as an individual. Just as you are part of LGBT most likely and derive your personal beliefs from who you say you are. You say you can't separate out being gay as a lifestyle just like I cannot separate out my Christianity. Unfortunately, it puts us at odds with each other. I find it just as frustrating as you do that there can't be a middle ground. I love compromises, but you won't compromise and neither will I.

Statistically christianity is the dominant religion in the US. I'm assuming you live in the US since you are addressing gay marriage in this country. You need to put the bibl down for a bit and perhaps read some nonfiction for a while. Perhaps you would site a reference that supports your claim that christianity is a minority faith here in the us. (I seriously doubt you'll be able to do so.)

I noticed that in the course of your posting on this thread you have not address questions asked of you. I'm waiting to find out how my cousins marriage to his long term partner impacts your marriage?

Trying to get a simple question answered. Patiently waiting while the crickets chirp in the background... :lol:

[doggie]

Let me get this straight. I should not campaign for what I think is right if it disagrees with your opinion or lifestyle.

if you can prove it more then with well I believe it it is my faith. Christians can't even agree on what the bible means let alone what version is valid. so trying to base other peoples happiness and futures on less then perfect interpretations is a form of evil only the religious can do.

Maybe if you got every christian to agree with you you would have a valid point.

[CC3]

I don't see anything about homosexuality in there, or gay marriage. I DO see a lot of crap that many people - even Christians! - have been guilty of quite a bit.

You need to start at verse 24. It's all one paragraph.

[holierthanyou]

I think this thread should be retitled CC3 is detrimental and ultimately destructive

[Witsec7]

CC3 wrote:

I can answer for myself. I usually am in the minority in the work place and in society in general, but that is the choice I made. Following Christ is now in my make-up as an individual. Just as you are part of LGBT most likely and derive your personal beliefs from who you say you are. You say you can't separate out being gay as a lifestyle just like I cannot separate out my Christianity. Unfortunately, it puts us at odds with each other. I find it just as frustrating as you do that there can't be a middle ground. I love compromises, but you won't compromise and neither will I.

Statistically christianity is the dominant religion in the US. I'm assuming you live in the US since you are addressing gay marriage in this country. You need to put the bibl down for a bit and perhaps read some nonfiction for a while. Perhaps you would site a reference that supports your claim that christianity is a minority faith here in the us. (I seriously doubt you'll be able to do so.)

I noticed that in the course of your posting on this thread you have not address questions asked of you. I'm waiting to find out how my cousins marriage to his long term partner impacts your marriage?

Trying to get a simple question answered. Patiently waiting while the crickets chirp in the background...

[CC3]

+10000000000000

This left-handed dyke approves this comment!

CC3, I think I remember you talking about how you'd have to "adjust" if one of your kids told you they were gay. How you'd have to mourn the loss or some such bs.

Here's the truth: You can think women kissing women or men kissing men is icky. I don't agree, but everyone has a right to their beliefs, no matter how idiotic they may be.

Personally, I would never get married. I think it's pretty much a nice little piece of paper telling you that the government validates you. But, I understand the legal, social, and personal aspects of marriage for most people. I would never tell anyone they shouldn't be allowed to marry and would fight with my last breath for marriage for everyone, LGBT, or hetero.

It's such a crock that a man and a woman who've known each other a day can get married and it's A-OKAY in the eyes of the law, but one of my best friends can't legally marry his loving partner of 6 years and have it recognized everywhere. It makes my blood boil! It should make every decent human's blood boil!

I'm going to end this on a less diplomatic note. You can have your beliefs. But the minute you try to force those beliefs on my friend or any of my LGBT kin, and deny their right to happiness, eat me.

I never said one thing about having to adjust or mourn the loss if my kid was gay. Ridiculous.

[formergothardite]

Why aren't you actively trying to pass laws to invalidate all the divorces/remarriages that are not biblical? Like you said, it is totally hypocritical for you to be trying to stop gay people from getting married and not trying to stop the other. Are there people in your church who have divorced for non-biblcal reasons or gotten married after that sort of divorce? Have you confronted them and told them they are living in sin? Do you make sure that they have no leadership/teaching/helping place in your church since they are living a life that is against the Bible? If you do not, would you let an actively gay couple do those things in your church?

Quoting this in hopes that CC3 will answer. And remember, people who get divorced because their spouse is beating them aren't obeying the Bible. So CC3, are you fully supporting and trying to get laws to mandate abused women get the divorces from abusive exes invalidated so that they can obey the Bible?

[Maul the Koala]

God, if you're up there, please communicate to your followers that they aren't a persecuted minority in North America. Because they don't seem to be listening to statistics. :violin: