Homosexuality is detrimental and ultimately destructive

[thoughtful]

The original sin was acting out their homosexual desires. Because they did not stop and acknowledge God, He gave them over to a debased mind. A debased mind causes a lifestyle of horrible behavior including gossip, hautiness, lying, etc. Homosexuality is not interchangeable with behavior from a debased mind. It is the root cause.

I'm sorry. I confused you with another poster whom I thought deleted part of a post I was responding to. Please forgive me.

I never said my interpretation of the Bible is the only one. I also am not legislating it either.

Whoa! This whole sub-thread, of people arguing this subject with you, began because you said that you are against gay marriage. Now you say your interpretation of the Bible is not the only one, but, earlier, you felt comfortable saying this to Doggy:

I'm sorry you don't agree with God.

And yes, that is a short quote, but it is absolutely in the context of your telling him that you are sure that God disapproves of homosexual unions. It's on page three of this thread, if you'd like to look.

You also said:

Oh you silly goose, I never miss an election. We have never had a vote on same sex marriage in my state and I don't know of any bills in state congress at this time. I would campaign against it if it comes up in the future. :)

Legislation comes from a process that can begin and/or end with the votes of citizens. So, if you succeeded in voting down same-sex marriage in your state, you would be legislating against it. The fact that it hasn't come up is coincidence.

As for the debased mind stuff -- I'm glad you said that outright. It makes it very clear that your view of a group of people that has done you no harm is shaped by bigotry.

[thoughtful]

I know someone else said this, but the real question here is not whether the Bible is against homosexuality. It's interesting to see the holes in fundie logic, but if the Bible, even the Torah, said unambiguously gay marriage must be stopped at all costs, it would not mean a damn thing in terms of law. CC3 and her friends have no right to impose their religion on others. No more right than I have to make bacon illegal.

I mean, bacon taunts me with its oily salty goodness and it CLEARLY says in the Bible that eating pig is wrong. It affects me when I see other people having a luscious BLT while I nibble at my knishes. It places me in such intense temptation that I occasionally succumb and have a bite of the forbidden bacon sandwich. You bacon-eaters are causing me to sin and it is all your fault, I accept no responsibility for this. :) Nonetheless, I have no right to outlaw bacon. The same way CC3 has no right to advocate against gay marriage.

Ah, bacon -- among its many virtues we can now credit it with being a fine analogy! :D

[julie paradox]

Paul was .... chosen to be the 12th disciple after Judas' death.

No. He wasn't. He really wasn't.

And you mean apostle anyway.

Sheesh, woman, get your holy book straight!

(Seriously, do you not see how this would undermine any shred of credibility you had left?.... note heavily unsubtle use of subjunctive, it's late)

[lawfulevil]

CC3 is the most ridiculous thing to ever come out of her mother's mouth.

[synchroswimr]

CC3, unless I missed it, you still haven't said why US civil law should be based on your (a broad your; meaning people who think like you do) interpretation of a religious text.

[Sola]

Let me get this straight as I haven't read through the whole thread yet; CC3 thinks that gays can't get married cos the bibble sez so?

Amirite?

Presuming I am, here's my take;

First off if you are going down the bible route you have to ascertain certain things before you can move on laws being made which are based on the bible.

Start at the beginning.

Is there a god?

Is that god the one described in the Christian bible and not the god of any other religion?

Does the bible state unequivocally what god wants?

Is your interpretation of the bible the correct one?

Does the Christian bible forbid gay marriage? (you can also extend this to abortion or any of the contentious fundie viewpoints)

Until you can answer all those questions and back up what you say with proof, you have no right to make or campaign for laws based on the bible.

Two consenting adults should have the right to marry. Being gay doesn't come into it.

[Maude]

The original sin was acting out their homosexual desires. Because they did not stop and acknowledge God, He gave them over to a debased mind. A debased mind causes a lifestyle of horrible behavior including gossip, hautiness, lying, etc. Homosexuality is not interchangeable with behavior from a debased mind. It is the root cause.

In Romans 1:24-27, in context, Paul is speaking of and to the Gentiles (pagans) in Rome and addressing their ritual sex practices. I'm not sure where or how it's indicated that homosexuality is the original sin (?). In any case, to prove that it's destructive or 'the root cause of a debased mind,' you'd need to cite some examples, and for the life of me, I can't think of any. There's no objective evidence to suggest that homosexuality is harmful. Thus, to equate being gay with things like murder and deceit is deceitful in itself.

[Hane]

In Romans 1:24-27, in context, Paul is speaking of and to the Gentiles (pagans) in Rome and addressing their ritual sex practices. I'm not sure where or how it's indicated that homosexuality is the original sin (?). In any case, to prove that it's destructive or 'the root cause of a debased mind,' you'd need to cite some examples, and for the life of me, I can't think of any. There's no objective evidence to suggest that homosexuality is harmful. Thus, to equate being gay with things like murder and deceit is deceitful in itself.

Wait. How is this "giving them over to a debased mind for not acknowledging God" thing compatible with the fact that many gay people are in fact Christians? Example: the Metropolitan Community Church.

[formergothardite]

I guess CC3 is not going to answer my question. It always seems like the people who scream the loudest that they follow God are the ones that spend the most time trying to slip out of answering questions.

[Arielkay]

I think I will just go ahead and flounce for CC3. Here's what I predict she'll say:

I have not answered questions because I have a life, unlike you FJ people - even though I'm the one that totally derailed the thread in the first place. But, being the bestest type of Christian, I am automatically superior to you all anyway. God is on MY side and I agree with Him, which means I get a one-way ticket to Heabin and you jerks will all burn in hell, especially the gay ones. I would love to convert you to the love of Jesus - no, not really. I'll just say that, cause if I did manage to convert you, I would no longer feel artifically superior. Just like if I could pray away the gay, I would no longer feel superior to gay people. So I'll just all pretend to be concerned for your souls, and tell you I've got better things to do than lower myself to your silly thread.

Jesus loves you! (not really)

[formergothardite]

Well, she doesn't agree with God about reasons for divorce, because it appears God/Jesus wasn't using common sense.

[Koala]

I guess CC3 is not going to answer my question. It always seems like the people who scream the loudest that they follow God are the ones that spend the most time trying to slip out of answering questions.

And the first ones to scream, "I don't have time to answer these questions!". I'm just catching up on this thread. I was so wrapped up in the "hitting threads" when this started, that I totally missed it.

I was recently in an argument on FB regarding gay marriage. The woman wanted laws based on her "Biblical" beliefs but when I called her on some of the same points that have been mentioned here, she retorted that she didn't have to defend the Bible :roll:

[Koala]

Oh and because I love FJ:

Betty Bowers Explains Traditional Marriage to Everyone Else:

[muffynbear]

Kirk wants you ladies not to abort your rape (or incest) baby! He even took it a step further and said that if his daughter was raped, he would want her to go through with the pregnancy. This hypothetical baby would be made in "God's image".

-MAsymTAM40