Wisconsin group wants Jesus gone

[Sunnichick31]

An atheist group from WI is targeting a Jesus statue in MT that has been there as a WWII memorial since the 50's. I personally don't care too much about the statue (i didn't even know about it until a friend posted this on FB) but I do have a problem with a group from WI coming into my home state and trying to tell us what to do.

www.theblaze.com/stories/obey-the-const ... us-statue/

[finleeport]

Its just a statue for crying out loud, it doesn't have to mean anything. Religious statues are just like any other work of art.

[Sunnichick31]

Exactly! And it's not like they are saying that only Christians can use that particular ski hill or something. I don't understand it. I really don't. A statue is a statue. Big deal

[ilovetchotchkes]

SOoooooo by that logic, all the soldiers memorials at Gettysburg with crosses on em should also be yanked too. >_<

Its a war memorial.... I'm not Christian by any stretch of the imagination but its a freaking war memorial.

[Sunnichick31]

SOoooooo by that logic, all the soldiers memorials at Gettysburg with crosses on em should also be yanked too. >_<

Its a war memorial.... I'm not Christian by any stretch of the imagination but its a freaking war memorial.

SHHH!!!!! Don't give them ideas! lol

[WanderingStar]

Wow. What next, are they going to tell Catholic families that they can't keep their Virgin Mary statuettes (some of which are very beautiful, I might add) displayed in their yard? A visual symbol of faith, nine times out of ten, is no attempt to make someone feel persecuted. Plus on top of that, it's a war memorial. Are they really going to try to have a war memorial taken down because they're sensitive enough to let an image of Jesus offend them? Why does it offend them if they don't believe in Jesus? Are they not worried about offending the descendents of the fallen soldiers by having it removed?

[MonkeyMomma]

While that is kind of a creepy Jesus, I'll just put my two cents out there ... the Freedom From Religion Foundation is definitely one of the more in-your-face anti-religion groups. I'm an avid believer in secular society and religious freedom, but I think FFRF's tactics are pretty douchey sometimes. They put a bunch of ads on our local buses that implied religious people were stupid, weak, and/or in bondage.

[valsa]

It's government land, so Jesus doesn't belong there. It's no different than the religious school banner we've discussed in the other thread.

[valsa]

the Freedom From Religion Foundation is definitely one of the more in-your-face anti-religion groups. I'm an avid believer in secular society and religious freedom, but I think FFRF's tactics are pretty douchey sometimes. They put a bunch of ads on our local buses that implied religious people were stupid, weak, and/or in bondage.

So in other words, they took out ads identical to thousands of ads religious organizations have put out over the years, just with a different target audience?

While the FFRF's tactics may be douchey, they're no different than the tactics that many churches use, which the majority of people would consider "normal".

In the interest of full disclosure, I do get a laugh out of people reacting in such a vitriolic way to something that wouldn't get a second glance if it were coming from a religious organization.

[Arielkay]

So in other words, they took out ads identical to thousands of ads religious organizations have put out over the years, just with a different target audience?

While the FFRF's tactics may be douchey, they're no different than the tactics that many churches use, which the majority of people would consider "normal".

In the interest of full disclosure, I do get a laugh out of people reacting in such a vitriolic way to something that wouldn't get a second glance if it were coming from a religious organization.

Exactly.

[BlackHawk]

It's government land, so Jesus doesn't belong there. It's no different than the religious school banner we've discussed in the other thread.

(Playing Devil's advocate, warning)

So does that mean that the government held cemeteries should go and remove all crosses from soldiers graves reaching back years?

(I did not read the article... I really don't care to. Jesus does not bother me so much that I want him removed from every where, but I also understand other POVs.)

[MonkeyMomma]

So in other words, they took out ads identical to thousands of ads religious organizations have put out over the years, just with a different target audience?

While the FFRF's tactics may be douchey, they're no different than the tactics that many churches use, which the majority of people would consider "normal".

In the interest of full disclosure, I do get a laugh out of people reacting in such a vitriolic way to something that wouldn't get a second glance if it were coming from a religious organization.

Yeah, religious people are often douchey. Absolutely. I don't consider religious people being bigots to be appropriate. I fully enjoyed the regular defacing of anti-choice ads on the DC Metro as much as the next girl. I generally agree with FFRF's principles. I did enjoy very much when they got to put up a "sacrilegious" nativity in the WI state capitol to protest the placement of a baby Jesus nativity at Christmas time (which I agree has no place in the state capitol). So if sitting down on the bus, looking up at an ad that implies I'm an imbecile because I go to church on Sundays and thinking to myself, "Wow, that's douchey, guess they won't be getting my money" is "vitriolic," then, yeah, I guess that must be what I am. :roll:

[CanadianHippie]

It's government land, so Jesus doesn't belong there. It's no different than the religious school banner we've discussed in the other thread.

That. If it were something someone put up on their own land, I would agree that it should stay, but a statue of Jesus is nothing but religion and shouldn't be on government property.

[valsa]

So does that mean that the government held cemeteries should go and remove all crosses from soldiers graves reaching back years?

No. The government allows people to put (approved, if we're talking military) symbols of any religion on their grave markers. When it comes to government land, you can either have no religious symbols on it or allow equal access for any religious symbol to be on it. You cannot have just one religious symbol. It could also be argued that grave markers are a specific exception because the person buried there, in a sense, owns/has earned that space (particularly in military cemeteries)

So if sitting down on the bus, looking up at an ad that implies I'm an imbecile because I go to church on Sundays and thinking to myself, "Wow, that's douchey, guess they won't be getting my money" is "vitriolic," then, yeah, I guess that must be what I am.

You'd have a point if I was talking about you. I wasn't.

[lexiloumarie]

(Playing Devil's advocate, warning)

So does that mean that the government held cemeteries should go and remove all crosses from soldiers graves reaching back years?

(I did not read the article... I really don't care to. Jesus does not bother me so much that I want him removed from every where, but I also understand other POVs.)

Joining the military, and consenting to be buried in a military cemetery (de facto going way back, if you joined or were drafted) is very very different than a statue put up on public land for the general public.

[duchess0592]

No. The government allows people to put (approved, if we're talking military) symbols of any religion on their grave markers. When it comes to government land, you can either have no religious symbols on it or allow equal access for any religious symbol to be on it. You cannot have just one religious symbol. It could also be argued that grave markers are a specific exception because the person buried there, in a sense, owns/has earned that space (particularly in military cemeteries)

You'd have a point if I was talking about you. I wasn't.

what if it is open to other religions but they choose not to put anthing there, can Jesus stay?

[hagia sophia]

I used to belong to the FFF. I even went to two of their conventions. Oliver Sacks spoke at one! He was great!

However, I had to quit because their newsletter was sooooo angry. I couldn't read it. Every time it came I'd go "Oh, shit - this again." But I kept it up because I figured "they do good work." But after a few too many of the campaigns like the one in the OP I said, "Gotta go. Bye."

[debrand]

I really have nothing to add to the discussion. However, I did look at the article expecting to see a photo of a beautiful statue like the one in Rio de Janeiro. The one in Wisconsin is hideous looking. Wow. That is ugly.

[treemom]

I don't understand how it is a WWII memorial.

[debrand]

Perhaps donations could be collected to move the statue to land that is owned by a private organization.

Seriously, the statue looks like something created to mock Christianity.

[Bella99]

I don't understand how it is a WWII memorial.

Exactly. It may have a small plaque at the bottom not shown in the picture, but even if it does it looks like only the Christians are worthy of remembrance.

[treemom]

Exactly. It may have a small plaque at the bottom not shown in the picture, but even if it does it looks like only the Christians are worthy of remembrance.

By a creepy tacky Jesus,

[debrand]

Maybe an atheist group could demand to put up a really , ugly, tacky statue of the flying spaghetti creature. After all, atheists died in WWWII also. Other religions could ask to put up their own representations beside tacky Jesus. The only requirement would be that the display be large and crappy looking.

There are a lot of beautiful examples of religious art. This statue isn't one of them.

[AudreyE]

I don't understand how it is a WWII memorial.

Sometimes people say things, and I'm, like, "Duh, that's so obvious; why didn't I think of it?" That thought was percolating in the back of my brain, and I totally turned it off in my effort to be tolerant. It does sort of invite an explanation though doesn't it?

[valsa]

what if it is open to other religions but they choose not to put anthing there, can Jesus stay?

I believe that's a legal grey area. Most ruling that might apply generally deal with holiday displays, which have very uneven ruling histories.

The problem I have with it personally is that- what display could atheists, agnostics, and just generally spiritual people have that would be equal to a display of Jesus for Christianity?