Wisconsin group wants Jesus gone

[lexiloumarie]

I believe that's a legal grey area. Most ruling that might apply generally deal with holiday displays, which have very uneven ruling histories.

The problem I have with it personally is that- what display could atheists, agnostics, and just generally spiritual people have that would be equal to a display of Jesus for Christianity?

I'll be honest, as a vaguely religious Jew, I can't think of anything my people would ever agree on. I can hear it already. "Ten Commandments? Too easily mistaken for Christian? Magen David? But how would we display it? Menorah? Eh, but next to Jesus?!"

[CanadianHippie]

I'll be honest, as a vaguely religious Jew, I can't think of anything my people would ever agree on. I can hear it already. "Ten Commandments? Too easily mistaken for Christian? Magen David? But how would we display it? Menorah? Eh, but next to Jesus?!"

With the fundies shouting in the backgroup "Jesus was Jewish? Just accept him and become one of us!"

[crassy]

Wow. What next, are they going to tell Catholic families that they can't keep their Virgin Mary statuettes (some of which are very beautiful, I might add) displayed in their yard? A visual symbol of faith, nine times out of ten, is no attempt to make someone feel persecuted. Plus on top of that, it's a war memorial. Are they really going to try to have a war memorial taken down because they're sensitive enough to let an image of Jesus offend them? Why does it offend them if they don't believe in Jesus? Are they not worried about offending the descendents of the fallen soldiers by having it removed?

You can't compare the two. One is on private property, the other is on government property.

[crassy]

I believe that's a legal grey area. Most ruling that might apply generally deal with holiday displays, which have very uneven ruling histories.

The problem I have with it personally is that- what display could atheists, agnostics, and just generally spiritual people have that would be equal to a display of Jesus for Christianity?

There aren't any. It would be like people who don't collect stamps getting together to put up a monument to not collecting stamps.

[duchess0592]

There aren't any. It would be like people who don't collect stamps getting together to put up a monument to not collecting stamps.

So then is it right to penalize religions that do have something to add. If other religions want to add a display let them, of not then Jesus stands by himself it seems very simple to me.

[debrand]

I disagree with the atheist organization on this issue. Although, I think that legally they are correct.

Many people have bought into the lie that this land is Christian. Christians fight for our country. They are the only ones who die for it and love it. That isn't true.

What better way to show this than to have a tasteful display of the names of those nonChrisitans who gave their life for our country? If the monument is simple and tasteful, it will contrast with the ugliness of that Jesus state. Perhaps something like the monument in Washington D.C for the Vietnam Vets?

I remember watching an O'Reilly episode on which he threw a fit because an atheist plaque was going to be displayed next to a nativity scene. I think that people like him would throw a fit if such a display was placed next to that ugly Jesus statue.

edited because I keep thinking of something to say

[defrauding]

With the fundies shouting in the backgroup "Jesus was Jewish? Just accept him and become one of us!"

It's funny you should say that: Jay Sekulow, the lawyer in the article defending the statue, is an important member of Jews for Jesus. He became a Christian when he met a Jews for Jesus group in college, and his law career took off when he successfully defended their right to distribute tracts at airports before the Supreme Court.

I remember watching an O'Reilly episode on which he threw a fit because an atheist plaque was going to be displayed next to a nativity scene. I think that people like him would throw a fit if such a display was placed next to that ugly Jesus statue.

That's the problem, isn't it? We can talk all we want about letting everyone have a memorial there, but even the most inspiring secular memorial will still anger Christians who somehow feel victimized when they're not the only ones with a public presence.

I'm firmly with valsa on this one. The statue has no place on the mountain.

[debrand]

I find myself going back and forth on this issue. On one hand, I would like a similar memorial be placed on the site for nonChristians. However, I also know that real change won't happen until someone risks public anger and demands change. Religious symbolism is not supposed to be displayed on public property. If we respect the constitution and the rights that are outlined in it, the statue should be moved.

No one is saying that the Knights should destroy the statue. It can exist as a mermorial on private land. It isn't as if the meaning will change if the Knights of Columbus more it to another place.

[valsa]

So then is it right to penalize religions that do have something to add.

More "Christians are soooo persecuted!!1!!1" crap. How are they being penalized?

Are they being prevented from erecting their statue on any non-government land, like everyone else has the right to?

[crassy]

So then is it right to penalize religions that do have something to add. If other religions want to add a display let them, of not then Jesus stands by himself it seems very simple to me.

And, iirc, in the US they can. On private property.

[crassy]

More "Christians are soooo persecuted!!1!!1" crap. How are they being penalized?

Are they being prevented from erecting their statue on any non-government land, like everyone else has the right to?

It must suck to be the majority! Poor, poor persecuted majority. It makes me laugh that a lot of religious people are so pro American constitution, but when it is used against their actions they just call out persecution. O.o

[JesusFightClub]

It is hideous. And as treemom said, how is this a WWII memorial?

I do not know what happens in the US, but here nearly all towns and villages have a memorial. It is not in colour, just in stone, and it's a statue of a soldier very often. The writing on it will be a list of the people who died from that area. There's usually an inscription about remembering the fallen (and, if you are unlucky, the infamous "Dulce et decorum est...") I have seen memorial plaques on the walls of old, long established institutions like banks etc too.

But big and frankly weird statues of Jesus in billowing robes are a new one on me.

[crassy]

It is hideous. And as treemom said, how is this a WWII memorial?

I do not know what happens in the US, but here nearly all towns and villages have a memorial. It is not in colour, just in stone, and it's a statue of a soldier very often. The writing on it will be a list of the people who died from that area. There's usually an inscription about remembering the fallen (and, if you are unlucky, the infamous "Dulce et decorum est...") I have seen memorial plaques on the walls of old, long established institutions like banks etc too.

But big and frankly weird statues of Jesus in billowing robes are a new one on me.

I've never seen a war memorial that was a big tacky Jesus either. They are usually just obelisks, or have a statue, or, if they are near a church (and sometimes not) a cross. But never a big, tacky Jesus.

[AudreyE]

I still say no one would fight these small battles, if so many Christians were not trying to legislate their faith down our throats. When bills are being introduced to teach creationism in public school science classes, and people are laying the groundwork for laws that could make the pill illegal, then you better believe I'm going to hold the line in any battle I can, no matter how small.

[crassy]

I still say no one would fight these small battles, if so many Christians were not trying to legislate their faith down our throats. When bills are being introduced to teach creationism in public school science classes, and people are laying the groundwork for laws that could make the pill illegal, then you better believe I'm going to hold the line in any battle I can, no matter how small.

Word!

I'm not American but I am involved in the secular lobby group trying to get chaplains out of the state school system in Australia. It amazes me that I have to put up and shut up with this bullshit is going on, or when my autonomous rights are being threatened by crazy wingnuts, but if the tables get turned, it is an all out persecution against the religious.

[thoughtful]

I still say no one would fight these small battles, if so many Christians were not trying to legislate their faith down our throats. When bills are being introduced to teach creationism in public school science classes, and people are laying the groundwork for laws that could make the pill illegal, then you better believe I'm going to hold the line in any battle I can, no matter how small.

I agree -- religious statuary should not be on land paid for by taxpayers.

There is nothing in US law stopping people from displays related to belief on private property.

I can't help feeling that the claim that the statue in question "serves as a war memorial" was something slapped onto it to make it seem less exclusive.

Not to mention that it looks like it was designed by the folks who made Buddy Christ!

[mirele]

I agree -- religious statuary should not be on land paid for by taxpayers.

There is nothing in US law stopping people from displays related to belief on private property.

I can't help feeling that the claim that the statue in question "serves as a war memorial" was something slapped onto it to make it seem less exclusive.

Not to mention that it looks like it was designed by the folks who made Buddy Christ!

I was wondering when someone was going to mention the statue's resemblance to Buddy Christ! Maybe if we keep saying it, the people in favor of it will be so embarrassed they'll get rid of the statue on sheer tackyness grounds and replace it with a nice granite monument engraved with the names of the fallen. You know, like everywhere else.

[thoughtful]

I was wondering when someone was going to mention the statue's resemblance to Buddy Christ! Maybe if we keep saying it, the people in favor of it will be so embarrassed they'll get rid of the statue on sheer tackyness grounds and replace it with a nice granite monument engraved with the names of the fallen. You know, like everywhere else.

That's an idea! :lol:

The statue is unconstitutional so tacky that it's a terrible representation of Christianity.

Which it is -- I ain't lyin'!

[ladypuglover]

:? What is wrong with Buddy Christ? I mean look at Him, he is totally a fun guy. :whistle: