Liz Trotta & MilitaryWomen - What did they expect?

[Austin]

WTF?

gFGcF1id1PM

[debrand]

She says that feminists want programs to keep women form being 'raped too much' What the hell?

My sister is in the Air Force and I am proud of her. She is an inspirational person. If my daughters took my sister as their role model, I'd be damned proud of them.

[ThisOlGirl]

How much is too much when it comes to rape? Four rapes? Five? I'd just like to know so the next time I read about female service member being raped, I can say "Oh, well she was only raped once, so she just needs to suck it up." :angry-cussingblack:

[finleeport]

Do I sense a feeling of internalized misogyny?

[pomology]

NB: I am not trying to make a political point about Israel, here. I have my own issues with Israel's policies and certain actions of the IDF and since this post is all about sexism, I'm not even going to get started on Hasids in Israel, and I'm also not saying that conscription or mandatory military service is a good thing BUT...

One thing (and perhaps the only thing) I think is admirable about the military in Israel is that women are conscripted at the age of 18, just like men. Yes, they have to serve for less time, but it is a normal part of society that society that everybody is conscripted and everybody (yes, I know that not everybody serves, but the point is that this is true of the vast majority of society) has been in the military and that is true for both men and women. Honestly, I don't know if there is a problem with sexual assault in the IDF, maybe there is, but nobody would say anything that is disgusting as "Well, what did they expect?" Because women serving is normal and not something weird and stigmatized.

As I understand it (and as a young'un, I may be way off base here), some people had issues with the ERA would have meant that women could be drafted for the military. Don't get me wrong, I don't have any desire to serve in the military. I have no fucking clue what I would do if I was drafted. But I would find some way to deal with the situation. If women truly had equal rights, shit like this wouldn't happen. Ergo, (one of the many reasons) that women should have equal rights, even if it would put me in a situation that I might find personally unpalatable.

Also, on a separate note, if men in the military cannot take it upon themselves not to be rapists, they aren't men I want or feel comfortable with protecting my country, anyway. Nor do I really see them protecting my country.

In summation, Liz Trotta,

[kpmom]

I noticed on the screen where they showed her background and awards, she's been around since Vietnam war days. It's hard to believe a woman who has seen so much, done so much, and no doubt, had her share of sexual harassment, could be so cold about what modern women go through in the military. You would think she'd be their biggest booster. I don't get it.

[emmiedahl]

One of my daughters has a bright future as a Marine drill sergeant should she choose that career path. :lol:

I don't think "rape" should be part of any job. If men were getting raped in the military, the US government would be incredibly concerned and working hard to find and punish the offenders. One rape is too much rape.

[Austin]

Jon Stewart eviscerated her the other night: http://www.thedailyshow.com/full-episod ... ky-gervais

[shesinsane]

The victim wanted to serve and defend her country, she was asking for it. [/dumbness off]

I think the point Liz Trotta was trying to make is that rape in the military is just another feminist fundraising tool. All she wanted to do was point out how much the military spends dealing with rape victims. And everyone here is familiar with the point of view that men can't help themselves; if women are nearby, rape is a possibility. :roll:

[Austin]

In watching the segment with Samantha Bee on that Jon Stewart episode, she parodies these attitudes about women in the military, which are the same exact attitudes that fundies have towards women in general.

[MarsGirl]

The thing that's especially odious about her comment is the fact that she is a woman!! I dont get women who defeat their own best interests with taking part in this misogyny. They really must hate themselves.

[shesinsane]

The thing that's especially odious about her comment is the fact that she is a woman!! I dont get women who defeat their own best interests with taking part in this misogyny. They really must hate themselves.

It's not that they hate themselves, they're just disappointed that they weren't born male, and hate all other women for reminding them of their inferiority. But I'm sure Liz Trotta (and women like her) would bend over of backwards telling you how they are not the type of women they rail against. It's possible to have a huge ego but still hate your gender.

[MarsGirl]

It's not that they hate themselves, they're just disappointed that they weren't born male, and hate all other women for reminding them of their inferiority. But I'm sure Liz Trotta (and women like her) would bend over of backwards telling you how they are not the type of women they rail against. It's possible to have a huge ego but still hate your gender.

I suppose having to work on FoxNews as a female, you have to inflate your ego to compete with all the other male egos that work for that channel.

It's just insane to suggest that because a woman is in a traditionally male role that she deserves to be raped. Insane. But I know I'm preaching to the choir here.

[JesusFightClub]

pomology, excellent point. I do not discuss Israel/Palestine online as it is not a discussion I can have calmly. (I do face to face, but not on forums). However the central point you made, normalisation of women in the military, is very important.

Because of the patriarchy, women who belong to any kind of grouping in a possible combat setting (be it guerrilla, regular army, whatever) are often seen as potential targets by both sides for assault or abuse. They are seen by some as taking themselves out of their normal situations and thereby "asking for it". Though there's a far wider problem there, making it not weird for women to be in military or combat situations is really helpful.

[debrand]

In watching the segment with Samantha Bee on that Jon Stewart episode, she parodies these attitudes about women in the military, which are the same exact attitudes that fundies have towards women in general.

I saw that. She made the comment that women can be protected or raped. Although she was mocking a certain attitude, she sounded amazingly like some fundie we cover. If you are a woman and step out of a certain sphere, some people believe that you don't deserve to be treated with respect. It isn't a choice about protecting or raping women. It is about treating all humans with a certain degree of respect regardless of their sex.

[Austin]

I saw that. She made the comment that women can be protected or raped. Although she was mocking a certain attitude, she sounded amazingly like some fundie we cover. If you are a woman and step out of a certain sphere, some people believe that you don't deserve to be treated with respect. It isn't a choice about protecting or raping women. It is about treating all humans with a certain degree of respect regardless of their sex.

Exactly.

[Shirley MacLaine]

Raped.

Too.

Much.

[vomits]

[pomology]

pomology, excellent point. I do not discuss Israel/Palestine online as it is not a discussion I can have calmly. (I do face to face, but not on forums). However the central point you made, normalisation of women in the military, is very important.

Because of the patriarchy, women who belong to any kind of grouping in a possible combat setting (be it guerrilla, regular army, whatever) are often seen as potential targets by both sides for assault or abuse. They are seen by some as taking themselves out of their normal situations and thereby "asking for it". Though there's a far wider problem there, making it not weird for women to be in military or combat situations is really helpful.

I would have used a less, uh, controversial place as an example, but as far as I am aware, Israel is the only country that conscripts women as part of its policy of mandatory military service. That's why I put my disclaimer ;)