Nasty gross polygamist Christian "pastor"

[chiccy]

Here's an interesting--and disgusting--self described "pastor" (apparently without a congregation; he is actually an insurance agent). He has lots of websites and his fuckery is all over the web but his main site is christianmarriage.com. Some interesting material--directed at "Future Wives"--from another site of his, christianpolygamy.com:

 

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Maybe you're not a college type at all and don't have a career path in mind. A polygamous household might be just the thing the Lord has planned for you. Polygamists, for obvious reasons, don't parade their wives around town as the monogamists do. We value who our women are and have a healthy desire for them. We're not interested in what desires they might induce in other men. There is no reason for any man to parade his wife about like a harlot. Respect for a woman is demonstrated by a calm and patient temperament. I'm sure you can understand that most men who enter polygamous unions have a tremendous amount of patience or they would have no interest in having even one wife.

 

Maybe you're from the Brethren, Mennonites, Anabaptists, or a woman that simply has conservative values. If so, you're likely more suited than you think to be part of a polygamous household. Women such as yourself find it a comfort knowing that they don't have to complete college to be accepted as "real women" and they can enjoy the freedom that is the envy of women's libbers. Imagine being part of a household that includes more women than men. You can leave your children for the day without worries. You can spend an afternoon at a coffee shop or the mall without any worries about the well being of your children. In general, women in polygamous households have fewer responsibilities than women in "nuclear two parent families." Obviously it is much easier to cook dinner or do the laundry if you have help and in a polygamous household there is plenty of help. Are you such a woman? Join our list of searching women by visiting ChristianMarriage.com and placing a personal ad. It's a fact that the best men are indeed taken but I can assure you that many of them are waiting to meet someone like you. You'll be surprised at how many women share your beliefs that a conservative household with lots of children and lots of wives for the husband is the best way to provide a happy and healthy environment for your children.

 

A choice excerpt from his "advice column" on Christianmarriage.com (I have bolded the particularly appalling parts):

 

 

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Dear Pastor Don:

I believe that a man can have more than one wife and still be a Christian. Now that I've come to this conclusion, how do I tell my wife? How can I know how she'll respond?

 

Scaredy Cat in Maine:

 

 

Dear Scaredy Cat:

 

It is impossible to know how your wife may respond to your broaching the subject of polygamy. I can tell you that it is 90 percent likely that she will have a violent reaction. Repeat, it is 90 percent likely that she will have a violent reaction.

 

When you initially talk about polygamy with her she may think it's truly in theory that you're bringing it up and discuss it like there's nothing wrong with it since she has likely heard that missionaries in foreign lands don't forbid it. But the fact is, you will o­nly find out how close she is to God when you find out whether she is willing to submit to the word of God concerning marriage. How many wives submit to biblical principles of marriage within monogamy? How few indeed when polygamy is involved.

 

When and if you introduce her to real life Christian polygamists she will likely want to impose the death penalty or prison upon them regardless of her prior acceptance of the fact that polygamy should be permitted by missionaries in foreign lands. You'll find that her reaction will be much worse to Christian polygamists than to polygamists of other religions because it will strike her too close to home.

 

Your relationship with your wife will be changed forever. She may divorce you. She may even commit adultery shortly after you bring up the topic of polygamy with her. She may even try to injure or kill you.

 

If you follow the advice of some polygamy advocates o­n the Internet you will likely be forced to suffer many years of unhappiness because they will encourage you to bring up polygamy with her o­n a regular basis using their so called love not force method. Any man who loves himself would not even think of going through the years of torment required to love a wife into letting him have more than o­ne wife. All the while you would be loving, she would be hating and mistreating you. The wives of men who have tried this method do everything they can to make life miserable for them. Month after month, your wife will threaten you with everything from divorce to taking away the kids to even lying about your behavior.

 

Who does the "love not force" approach to polygamy help most? It helps those who receive donations from the men supporting the ministries advocating this method. Those men will be supporting the "love not force" promoters forever since it will be forever until their wives accept polygamy voluntarily. If you try this method your wife may actually claim to accept the idea of polygamy so that she can have some dirt to throw at you in a custody battle. A judge will be even less sympathetic to polygamy than your estranged wife.

 

There is a new obstacle to those who mention "love not force" to their wives. If their wife mentions "love not force" to a counselor who's worth his salt, he'll just visit the "love not force" website to research the subject and report back to the wife, saying, "Just keep pretending like you're listening to what he's saying but keep telling him that you're not ready yet. His mentor tells him that he can't have another wife unless you say so. Just string him along, by the time he's 70 he'll give this up!" The wife will say, "70? why should I stop there. I'm going to torment this monster till he goes to his death bed. He'll have his eyes fixed o­n me. I'll be his lord."

 

Your wife will be your lord. Your eyes will be fixed o­n her. This case is sort of like the lottery and is why I'm against the lottery. When a man buys a lottery ticket, where are his eyes fixed? o­n the possibility of riches, not o­n the Lord. When a man turns over the decision making process for having another wife then where are his eyes fixed? o­n his wife, o­n that hope, that giver of ..... WHAT! You get my point.

 

So what's the real problem with taking another wife? If you have children the real problem is that they may be taken away from you by a disagreeable wife. YOU MUST NOT make any rash decisions because of this.

 

When it comes to discussing polygamy with your wife my o­nly advice is DON'T DO IT! Don't bring up polygamy with your wife unless you're already practicing it. It's just not worth it. To bring up polygamy with your wife when you haven't even got a concubine is to ask for unnecessary torment.

 

If you have a concubine (a woman who is willing to be your wife without living with you) your wife will probably be motivated to compete with her but your wife will have no motivation to compete with an idea. Her discussion of polygamy will more closely resemble an inquisition than a conversation between believers. She will want to quash your idea. She may want you to renounce what you know to be a valid form of marriage. She may want to put your mind in chains and not be satisfied until she succeeds. If she succeeds in this then you'll be in submission to her in all other areas as well. Your spiritual walk will be gravely affected if you renounce any of your beliefs in submission to your wife. At least if you wait until you already have a concubine you will have someone o­n whom you can lean in your hours, days, weeks, months, years, of distress! ha ha ha

 

I'm laughing but I'm dead serious. Why put yourself in torment? If you take a second wife secretly you will have someone with whom you can share your life after your wife throws her fit. You'll be able to say ok honey, ok honey, and still enjoy your life. However, if you say ok honey, ok honey, and are not practicing polygamy then you'll feel isolated and in chains.

 

Because of the possibility of a custody battle, it's extremely important the second wife accept that she's in it for the long haul, that she is in fact married and that she accepts that her remaining with the man in that marriage is not contingent upon the first wife accepting the marriage. If she stands by her man then not only will he get custody of the children (a man with a new wife gets custody over a "divorcee" in nearly every court in the land) but it is much more likely that the first wife will accept the polygamous marriage in order to be near the children. (See Notes - Intervention) If the children are enrolled in a public or private school for at least a year prior to the time that the second wife is introduced to the first then there is even less of a chance that the court will award custody to the first wife since the court will have no reason to believe that the child is being "brainwashed" by a "polygamist" who homeschools his children. (Brainwashing by public schools is another issue.)

 

There is a horrible worst case scenario for men who introduce a second wife to their first wife. It goes like this: First wife meets second wife. First wife seeks civil divorce from husband. Second wife feels guilty and leaves. First wife gets custody of children. Husband has no first wife, no second wife, no children. Any man who has not considered this possibility is too foolish to be worthy of more than one wife in the first place. However, when there is a second wife already in the picture there is at least the likelihood that she will remain and that the husband will not loose his children in a custody battle.

 

When a man simply takes the so-called "love not force" advice (permission slip polygamy) and brings up polygamy with his wife before he even has a second wife in the wings, he risks losing his children overnight in a custody battle. Furthermore, without a second wife as witness to the events in the months previous to the custody battle, the man will have no defense against the false accusations of abuse which are so common in child custody cases. With a second wife who has been witness to the events in the months prior to the custody battle, it will be the word of two (the man and his new wife) against one (the divorcee.)

 

The so-called "Love not Force" method of convincing a wife of polygamy's rightness prior to embarking on it has imposed incalculable suffering on men and their children by precipitating divorce where none would have occurred if the man had only waited till he actually had a second wife in waiting.

 

The last time I checked, New Jersey did not recognize "ceremonial marriages." This means that the State of New Jersey considers sex after a ceremonial marriage conducted in New Jersey to be sex, not a consummation of marriage. Such being the case, a couple who polygamously marry in a ceremonial marriage (no license) in New Jersey can NOT be considered practicing polygamy or bigamy by any other court in the United States. However, their living together can be taken into consideration as beneficial to the children in all of the United States. In addition, if polygamous beliefs cannot be held against a Muslim husband in custody cases then neither can they be held against a Christian in custody battles. [None of this is legal advice but legal opinion. Seek an attorney for legal advice.]

 

Notes: Intervention - The most successful treatment for alcoholics who don't want treatment is referred to as intervention. It involves putting the alcoholic in a situation where they are forced to choose one of two choices they don't like. One such scenario might be to give them the following choices:

 

Give up drinking and be in jail for 30 days.

Give up drinking and be in treatment for 30 days.

 

Given these two choices, most alcoholics choose treatment.

 

In the case of wives who illogically hold onto monogamy despite what the Bible teaches, the choice could be as follows:

 

Have only partial visitation rights and live alone.

Have the kids as much as you want by being part of the husband's polygamous household.

 

Given the above choices many wives will choose polygamy.

 

 

But that's not the worst of it. The worst, by far, is his novel "Prince of Sumba, Husband to Many Wives." There are excerpts of it on ChristianMarriage.com, and almost all of it can be read on Google Books if you delete your cookies periodically. (Doing that seems to get rid of Google's page reading limit.) It's a hilariously awful novel...and also one of the most patronizing and patriarchal things I've ever read. The guy works as a missionary and ends up with 6 native women as his wives. They all have to call him "lord." (But it's not kinky, it's Biblical!) His friends also tell stories throughout the book about their own polygamy adventures, like visiting a quasi-brothel with the possibility of making 49 women their "wives" in one night. At one point, there is a discussion of a man who

makes a fifteen-year-old his second wife--in his first wife's house and without her knowledge, although of course that's not the worst part. The book seems to praise that choice.

 

This guy is awful...Enjoy.

[Olive Plant]

Fundie women who read here, take note! Your husband, if he is a biblically-minded patriarch who is not the pastor of a church (these men are supposed to be monogamous), should seriously consider this proposition if he takes the Bible as the inerrant word of God. If he is not required to discuss his doings with you, and if he sees himself as unequivocally your head, regardless of what your opinions are, then for all you know, he may have contemplated this already, especially if his 200-year plan involves having lots of children. Heck, he may have a secret "concubine" already! Why wouldn't he? Seriously. WHY WOULDN'T HE?

[chiccy]

Fundie women who read here, take note! Your husband, if he is a biblically-minded patriarch who is not the pastor of a church (these men are supposed to be monogamous), should seriously consider this proposition if he takes the Bible as the inerrant word of God.

As far as I can tell (from the Amazon.com reviews of his book, etc.) there are significant problems with the theological analysis that leads him to be OK with polygamy. So a smart pastor would probably not arrive at the same, unless he were also incredibly dishonest and self-serving.

However, we know very well that fundie "pastors" tend to be not only thick, but also disingenuous when it suits them. So I agree that Fundie ladies should consider themselves warned...

*Oh, and as for pastors being monogamous...the same comment applies. Pastors can stop being monogamous as soon as they've found an exegesis that suits them! "Pastor" Don here being a great example.

[Eoywin]

I know several polygamists - one is a family with one husband and two wives. They seem perfectly happy with the situation but they are the opposite of Christian.

This guy sounds like he wants to have even more wives to lord over and sounds a little crazy with his arguments. I don't know any wife who would be okay with polygamy if they haven't known about any "concubines" beforehand.

[Guest Anonymous]

Now this burns my butt! I have conservative values and attended college, and I would not join his kind to save my life! How dare he speak for me and other conservative college educated women and make such assumptions! :evil:

[holierthanyou]

I don't have any issues with consenting adults who choose to live in polyamorous relationships, I don't think that is inherently "nasty" or "gross".

I do however, have a problem with ignorant fucks who want to control women.

[chiccy]

I don't have any issues with consenting adults who choose to live in polyamorous relationships, I don't think that is inherently "nasty" or "gross".

I do. BUT the reason I put "nasty gross" in the title is that this particular man and his particular beliefs are nasty and gross.