Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep - Photography

[sableduck]

My mom has said that her greatest struggle was NOT having the chance to make memories. My friend, who has now lost two babies, has said the same thing. Granted, I know from two pregnancies that by twenty weeks I felt like I knew my babies--could feel them move, knew what times of day they were most active, things like that. This baby at sixteen weeks right now is very, very real to me...but there is a huge difference between a 16-week, 20-week, whatever fetus and an early miscarriage.

I think the photographs are the only memories these women are left with. My mom has also said that she was glad she was able to see my brother, what he looked like, and have the time to sing and rock and tell him that she loved him, even if it was only a body. I know she will always treasure those moments even though it was sad.

[kayray]

Thank you for explaining it to me. I think I had trouble understanding because I had never heard about people doing this with their dead fetuses/babies...

I can't help but wonder though if they will have memories which are not painful, considering they never got to know their child. If they had known the baby, then they probably would have had some happy memories as well. But why would you want to remember something that is so painful? Why do you want to be reminded of it (if it doesn't bring any good memories)?

I think there can still be happy memories, though. They may still remember the pregnancy fondly, or the joy of seeing their baby via ultrasound, or the excitement of planning, or choosing names, or whatever else. They can probably still remember feeling hopeful. They still gave birth and may have even been able to hold the baby while alive for a while. Sometimes the babies were expected to be perfectly healthy up until full-term birth, and were not or died due to complications and they have plenty of excited memories. They may still want even that sad memory, because it was part of their life experience.

I am child free myself, but know plenty of women who have felt very bonded to their unborn children over the pregnancy. They may not have "met", but they felt bonded and want that physical memory of that child.

It may have a painful ending, but it does not always mean there was nothing joyous in it, either, nor does it mean that sad memories are always best forgotten.

[Guest Anonymous]

A friend of mine in the UK had a very premature still born child and she had a photographer take beautiful memorial photos, which the hospital put in a memory box for her with his babygro, his hospital name tag and his footprints. It was not at all a religious thing, it was a part of a package of care that she was offered that included grief counselling for herself, her partner and her little girl. He was her child, she carried him, and he was born at the same gestational period as her next preemie child who lived because his heart problems were not as massive as his would-have-been elder brother. I think the photography was done by the same photographers who document live births, but they offered this work pro-bono in the same way that lots of people volunteer to work in difficult situations to help others. She doesn't see the photos as inherently sad - her little boy died and that is as sad as a situation gets, but she finds comfort in having tangible memories of him. The services were very much offered as an option; they were not pushed on the family, and there was no religious message tied to it at all. I don't think all hospitals offer this service; much of the 'extras' offered by NHS hospitals vary between Hospital Trusts, but I don't think it is uncommon in the UK for still births to be treated in this way.

[dawbs]

Thank you for explaining it to me. I think I had trouble understanding because I had never heard about people doing this with their dead fetuses/babies...

I can't help but wonder though if they will have memories which are not painful, considering they never got to know their child. If they had known the baby, then they probably would have had some happy memories as well. But why would you want to remember something that is so painful? Why do you want to be reminded of it (if it doesn't bring any good memories)?

Well, without the photos, you still have all the memories but nothing concrete to tie them to--some people find that the location (graveside, photo, etc) is a necessity to grief.

And there's the pesky bit that our culture doesn't handle grief well, it REALLY doesn't handle fetal-loss well. So something concrete can help make this something 'real' to grieve instead of something medically small. (I have friends who had such things done because the grief was the same for them but having pictures gave them a tangible "no, obnoxious-busybody-aunt, it is not the same as having an ingrown toenail cut out" evidence--just for themselves, not to share, that it was something 'real')

(and someone who has been there should probably speak on this better than I do)

[Iamthatbean]

Well, without the photos, you still have all the memories but nothing concrete to tie them to--some people find that the location (graveside, photo, etc) is a necessity to grief.

And there's the pesky bit that our culture doesn't handle grief well, it REALLY doesn't handle fetal-loss well. So something concrete can help make this something 'real' to grieve instead of something medically small. (I have friends who had such things done because the grief was the same for them but having pictures gave them a tangible "no, obnoxious-busybody-aunt, it is not the same as having an ingrown toenail cut out" evidence--just for themselves, not to share, that it was something 'real')

(and someone who has been there should probably speak on this better than I do)

This. So completely this. Plus, I didn't get her words, her first steps, her kindergarten graduation, her wedding etc. What I did get were those moments before and after birth. Those photos helped my grief...losing those photos intensified my grief. I think if I never had them it would have been much worse.

Edited for unintentional bolding

[pugglemama]

I get that perhaps someone would like to take a photo of their miscarriage or stillborn...

BUT why is there such a thing as NILMDTS? I mean, why are people volunteering to take photos of dead babies? What is that good for? The grieving process of the family? Is it helpful to have a photo of a dead baby...? I simply do not understand what this is about. I have never heard about such thing before.

Is the reason religious? I mean, Christians seem to believe that the dead fetus is in heaven with God, so they will meet again. A photo of the fetus will help them remember. Also I guess it will make it easier for them to remember which fetus to look for in heaven.

As someone who lost a baby, YES, it is very helpful, comforting, and meaningful to have pictures of my daughter. If your grandparent died, would you never look at pictures of them again? It really is no different. I had a very short time with my daughter, she lived for two hours, and we have many pictures and I treasure them so much. I will never have more pictures or memories or time with her.

I personally don't understand why people are so baffled by parents going through a natural, normal grieving process when they lose a baby.

[pugglemama]

Thank you for explaining it to me. I think I had trouble understanding because I had never heard about people doing this with their dead fetuses/babies...

I can't help but wonder though if they will have memories which are not painful, considering they never got to know their child. If they had known the baby, then they probably would have had some happy memories as well. But why would you want to remember something that is so painful? Why do you want to be reminded of it (if it doesn't bring any good memories)?

Mothers do get to know their babies. My daughter had a distinctive personality and I was extremely bonded with her during our pregnancy. Yes, it has been the most painful event of my life, but I DO have happy memories too. She's as much my child as my three living children. Not every aspect of my daughter's life is painful to remember and we do a lot in her memory to make a difference. I'm not going to forget my grandmother who died 8 years ago because that's painful--why would I try to forget my baby?

[SheWoreLemon]

I disapprove of the Duggars exploiting everything else about Jubilee's miscarriage, but I'm just fine about this. This gives NILMDTS a lot of publicity (and possible donations) and the chance to recruit a lot a new photographers.

[contrary]

i CANNOT stop looking at the old victorian post mortem photos, now. Absolutely fascinating.

[treemom]

I get that perhaps someone would like to take a photo of their miscarriage or stillborn...

BUT why is there such a thing as NILMDTS? I mean, why are people volunteering to take photos of dead babies? What is that good for? The grieving process of the family? Is it helpful to have a photo of a dead baby...? I simply do not understand what this is about. I have never heard about such thing before.

Is the reason religious? I mean, Christians seem to believe that the dead fetus is in heaven with God, so they will meet again. A photo of the fetus will help them remember. Also I guess it will make it easier for them to remember which fetus to look for in heaven.

I am not religious and I haven't believed in an after life for years...but taking pictures was something that I could hold onto in the months and years to come. I didn't use NILMDTS but we do have pictures of both of us with our stillborn daughter...

I guess I can't even explain it...but it was like the box of stuff, her gown, the blanket...the stuff that I hung onto to get me through the days of grief.

[treemom]

Thank you for explaining it to me. I think I had trouble understanding because I had never heard about people doing this with their dead fetuses/babies...

I can't help but wonder though if they will have memories which are not painful, considering they never got to know their child. If they had known the baby, then they probably would have had some happy memories as well. But why would you want to remember something that is so painful? Why do you want to be reminded of it (if it doesn't bring any good memories)?

You don't have a choice about remembering or not. You will remember it...painful or not.

[kayray]

i CANNOT stop looking at the old victorian post mortem photos, now. Absolutely fascinating.

I know, they really are quite intriguing.

[BoomerLynn]

You don't have a choice about remembering or not. You will remember it...painful or not.

THIS.

[contrary]

i have gotten completely lost in the thanatos flickr stream. This is freaking fascinating. Whomever said they had done extensive research on victorian mourning photography, i can see why. the comments with each photo are interesting, too.

flickr.com/photos/thanatosdotnet/

[kayray]

i have gotten completely lost in the thanatos flickr stream. This is freaking fascinating. Whomever said they had done extensive research on victorian mourning photography, i can see why. the comments with each photo are interesting, too.

flickr.com/photos/thanatosdotnet/

The comments in there are great.

That stream is fantastic. It is a good thing that it is a bit slower at the office today with holidays :)

[contrary]

no kidding! i can't stop.

[Buzzard]

I'm wondering if Jinger took many more pictures than the few we saw. She is the photography buff!

[fakepigtails73]

no kidding! i can't stop.

I know! I was the same when I 1st found out about those.

[lizzy]

i CANNOT stop looking at the old victorian post mortem photos, now. Absolutely fascinating.

They are fascinating, aren't they? Take a look at this one:

Notice the parents are a little blurry and the child is strikingly clear. That is because the child is dead and not moving. The parents had to hold still during the time the film was being exposed.

Totally freaky once you realize that.

[Brainsample]

NILMDTS photographers are are trained by the foundation, they also are counseled about burnout and trauma. I really do admire their work.

But I did notice what could be a slight necrosis on the toes of the fetus.

I thought the same thing, experiencedd.

[gustava]

I know I'll regret this, but has anyone besides me wondered why they show only ONE of Jubilee's hands? And only the bottoms of her feet? Perhaps because it's either pretty much all that's left of her and/or because the rest of her was basically a large tadpole. See the graphic on another thread of what a 16 week fetus looks like.

How can those pictures be comforting, instead of reminders of what the rest of her looked like?

And my apologies to those of you who have experienced great loss; I do not mean to offend you, though I'm afraid I have.

[Kishiria]

I started looking at the NILMDTS photos. What could be bizarre is rendered tenderly and movingly. I hate that these photos had to be taken, i.e. a baby died, but I love what the photographers do with them. The love that comes through is so obvious.

[pugglemama]

I know I'll regret this, but has anyone besides me wondered why they show only ONE of Jubilee's hands? And only the bottoms of her feet? Perhaps because it's either pretty much all that's left of her and/or because the rest of her was basically a large tadpole. See the graphic on another thread of what a 16 week fetus looks like.

How can those pictures be comforting, instead of reminders of what the rest of her looked like?

And my apologies to those of you who have experienced great loss; I do not mean to offend you, though I'm afraid I have.

Those are very typical NILMDTS poses. Plus, I would bet they have more pictures that show her face, whole body, her with parents, her with siblings, but they haven't shown those publicly. At 16 weeks development, she wasn't a big tadpole. I recently saw pictures of a 12 week fetus after his mother miscarried and he was remarkably well developed. My daughter, at 20 weeks, was fully developed and perfect, just tiny. Depending on when she actually passed, Jubilee might have had some skin damage and bruising/darkening of the skin.

[treemom]

I know I'll regret this, but has anyone besides me wondered why they show only ONE of Jubilee's hands? And only the bottoms of her feet? Perhaps because it's either pretty much all that's left of her and/or because the rest of her was basically a large tadpole. See the graphic on another thread of what a 16 week fetus looks like.

How can those pictures be comforting, instead of reminders of what the rest of her looked like?

And my apologies to those of you who have experienced great loss; I do not mean to offend you, though I'm afraid I have.

My baby looked a bit rough after she was born (still) so my preferred photos are the ones of feet and hands that look less rough.

Grief is a beast. I can't tell you how it works that it is a good, healthy reminder, it just is.

[desertvixen]

I went and looked through the site the other day and all I can say is that I can't imagine having to go through that experience.

I would definitely have the photographs, but that's just me.

To all of you who have experienced the losses and shared your stories, (((( )))).