Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep - Photography

[Iamthatbean]

OK, so I have to wonder...did the Duggars make a nice big donation to Lay Me Down To Sleep? Or just take free pictures they could have afforded when others CAN'T? They really should have just hired a photographer...

[emmiedahl]

Silly, they don't *give* donations, they *get* donations. They probably asked the volunteer photographer for a love offering.

[chiccy]

Silly, they don't *give* donations, they *get* donations.

QFT.

[Iamthatbean]

:P Duh, silly me...should have known...

[GatorGutCasserole]

I'm wondering how much they have GOTTEN for the ad?

I've heard of these people before. When did they learn about them? When your baby's heart stops beating, the moment a nurse gives you their flyer? :shock: :think: Or when Josie was touch and go... did they consider it? Did they look it up or they called them like, HEy, we just saw you on tv with your 6 ounce baby and we make pics of dead children?

[garciarodrigez]

The article on their website makes it sound like the Duggars called them.

[Iamthatbean]

Most hospitals have the name and number of a photographer that does photos for them. The doctor's office probably had the info in the packet they gave them.

[Cerysbell]

I imagine the Duggars did call them, maybe partly because imagine trying to ring round to other photographers and asking, would you please come photograph our foetus. I hope a NILMDTS photographer is at least partially prepared. I do most certainly hope they did make a generous donation.

[Want More Babies]

WTF :angry-screaming:

I am so freaking pissed off about this!!

What babies will NILMDTS photograph? (i.e. minimum gestational age)

Our foundation guidelines are that an infant must be 25 weeks gestation. We do however; make some exceptions for infants that are slightly younger than the 25 week guideline depending on the condition of the baby. We ask the medical professionals (doctor or nursing staff) to assess the condition of the baby, and make the determination if we are able to get a quality photograph. We ask them to assess the condition of the baby conservatively, keeping in mind that our volunteers are not medical professionals. If the medical professional feels that the baby is in good shape and we can get a quality photograph, then we are happy to take these sessions as well.

nowilaymedowntosleep.org/faq

Once again, what applies to the rest of the world doesn't apply to the Duggars.

[pugglemama]

WTF :angry-screaming:

I am so freaking pissed off about this!!

What babies will NILMDTS photograph? (i.e. minimum gestational age)

Our foundation guidelines are that an infant must be 25 weeks gestation. We do however; make some exceptions for infants that are slightly younger than the 25 week guideline depending on the condition of the baby. We ask the medical professionals (doctor or nursing staff) to assess the condition of the baby, and make the determination if we are able to get a quality photograph. We ask them to assess the condition of the baby conservatively, keeping in mind that our volunteers are not medical professionals. If the medical professional feels that the baby is in good shape and we can get a quality photograph, then we are happy to take these sessions as well.

nowilaymedowntosleep.org/faq

Once again, what applies to the rest of the world doesn't apply to the Duggars.

This isn't a "Duggar only" exception. NILMDTS is a group with volunteer photographers who are trained to take pictures of babies who have passed or will pass. If you look up any given area on their website, there are probably many photographers. I think that each photographer takes on what they want, not always going by the 25 week cut off. They are not paid for their services, but obviously, it would be in good taste for someone to make a donation to the organization.

I'm sure that the photographer who got the call was more than happy to do the Duggar pictures. Their name will be out there now. Most of them do not only do dead baby pictures.

[Iamthatbean]

This isn't a "Duggar only" exception. NILMDTS is a group with volunteer photographers who are trained to take pictures of babies who have passed or will pass. If you look up any given area on their website, there are probably many photographers. I think that each photographer takes on what they want, not always going by the 25 week cut off. They are not paid for their services, but obviously, it would be in good taste for someone to make a donation to the organization.

I'm sure that the photographer who got the call was more than happy to do the Duggar pictures. Their name will be out there now. Most of them do not only do dead baby pictures.

BUT they could have *hired* the same photographer instead of as a volunteer...

[Witsec7]

NILMDTS photographers are are trained by the foundation, they also are counseled about burnout and trauma. I really do admire their work.

But I did notice what could be a slight necrosis on the toes of the fetus.

[Cerysbell]

I don't know, but I imagine not being paid, ie coming from an official NILMDTS position gives them a greater ability to say, umm, sorry, having seen what there is, I can't photograph for you.

[Iamthatbean]

NILMDTS photographers are are trained by the foundation, they also are counseled about burnout and trauma. I really do admire their work.

But I did notice what could be a slight necrosis on the toes of the fetus.

I wondered if it was ink from the footprint.

[Jezebel]

WTF :angry-screaming:

I am so freaking pissed off about this!!

What babies will NILMDTS photograph? (i.e. minimum gestational age)

Our foundation guidelines are that an infant must be 25 weeks gestation. We do however; make some exceptions for infants that are slightly younger than the 25 week guideline depending on the condition of the baby. We ask the medical professionals (doctor or nursing staff) to assess the condition of the baby, and make the determination if we are able to get a quality photograph. We ask them to assess the condition of the baby conservatively, keeping in mind that our volunteers are not medical professionals. If the medical professional feels that the baby is in good shape and we can get a quality photograph, then we are happy to take these sessions as well.

nowilaymedowntosleep.org/faq

I can actually understand this. A fetus after 25 weeks is likely to be in good shape, really recognizable as an infant, and need far less retouching or extra time setting up the shot in order to get a nice photo. So as a conservative set of guidelines from the parent organization, it makes sense.

That said, I would not be surprised if individual photographers make a lot of exceptions for earlier miscarriages, depending on the condition of the fetus, their skill level with Photoshop, and the amount of time they're willing to put into retouching.

ETA: Also, it just occurred to me, there are only so many photographers available, and most of them have other work they do. So, given the number of miscarriages that occur, I can understand NILMDTS imposing those guidelines simply to keep them from being overwhelmed by too many requests that can't be fulfilled.

[pugglemama]

BUT they could have *hired* the same photographer instead of as a volunteer...

NILMDTS doesn't have income requirements. They'll shoot for free for a homeless person the same as they will for a millionaire. It's a service and the photographers have agreements about not charging, what they can charge for, etc. I think the photographers generally give the family a CD of edited pictures, but they can charge for prints.

I'm not going to begrudge anybody the use of a NILMDTS photographer. When my baby died, I had never heard of them and the hospital didn't use their photographers (they took pictures and had some professional newborn type pics done for us, all free as well). But the photographers are trained to take pictures of the babies and their families, to deal with the trauma of the loss, etc. I'm pretty sure an NILMDTS photographer could NOT take money even if the family wanted to hire them. I wouldn't want just any photographer taking pictures of my dead baby. Could you imagine MckMama doing it? That would be so disappointing.

[Witsec7]

I wondered if it was ink from the footprint.

Excellent clue Bean. I'd prefer to think you are right. I must admit to spending too much time on that site over the years. I do view it with regularity and there are some very early miscarriages posted in the memorial section, so I can't fault the photog that snapped the picts of the duggars fetus.

[Iamthatbean]

NILMDTS doesn't have income requirements. They'll shoot for free for a homeless person the same as they will for a millionaire. It's a service and the photographers have agreements about not charging, what they can charge for, etc. I think the photographers generally give the family a CD of edited pictures, but they can charge for prints.

I'm not going to begrudge anybody the use of a NILMDTS photographer. When my baby died, I had never heard of them and the hospital didn't use their photographers (they took pictures and had some professional newborn type pics done for us, all free as well). But the photographers are trained to take pictures of the babies and their families, to deal with the trauma of the loss, etc. I'm pretty sure an NILMDTS photographer could NOT take money even if the family wanted to hire them. I wouldn't want just any photographer taking pictures of my dead baby. Could you imagine MckMama doing it? That would be so disappointing.

You're right, I'm sure...I guess I just hope they made some sort of donation...

[candycanehead]

:cry: :cry: :cry:

beautiful pictures but oh my god..i cant even begin to understand what those people are going through..wow.

*goes to hug kids, even mouthy ones who are talking back nonstop today*

[Effie]

I get that perhaps someone would like to take a photo of their miscarriage or stillborn...

BUT why is there such a thing as NILMDTS? I mean, why are people volunteering to take photos of dead babies? What is that good for? The grieving process of the family? Is it helpful to have a photo of a dead baby...? I simply do not understand what this is about. I have never heard about such thing before.

Is the reason religious? I mean, Christians seem to believe that the dead fetus is in heaven with God, so they will meet again. A photo of the fetus will help them remember. Also I guess it will make it easier for them to remember which fetus to look for in heaven.

[Iamthatbean]

I get that perhaps someone would like to take a photo of their miscarriage or stillborn...

BUT why is there such a thing as NILMDTS? I mean, why are people volunteering to take photos of dead babies? What is that good for? The grieving process of the family? Is it helpful to have a photo of a dead baby...? I do not get this at all. I don't mean to be snarky. I simply do not understand what that's about. I have never heard about such thing before.

Pictures were helpful for me. Mine were of the disposable camera taken myself and my nurse took some. For me, it was a way of remembering... they weren't something I shared with anyone. In fact to this day my mother swears she didn't know I had any. Professional photos would have been wonderful but 9 1/2 years ago, it wasn't offered at the hospital I was at.

[kayray]

I get that perhaps someone would like to take a photo of their miscarriage or stillborn...

BUT why is there such a thing as NILMDTS? I mean, why are people volunteering to take photos of dead babies? What is that good for? The grieving process of the family? Is it helpful to have a photo of a dead baby...? I do not get this at all. I don't mean to be snarky. I simply do not understand what that's about. I have never heard about such thing before.

I can understand it. It was their child, and not just a "dead baby" to them, given the expectations they had and so forth. It is likely the only pictures they will ever have.

I don't think the pictures should be for public & open consumption, but I can understand there being a need for the pictures, and can understand why people volunteer for it. I imagine they volunteer for it just as people volunteer for anything, they see it as a way to give back using their own time and skills to people who have the need for what they can provide. I can see why professional photos would be a nice thing to have.

Apparently the Victorians were very big into post mortem photography of stillborns and deceased infants, children and adults, so it is certainly not a new thing.

ETA: after seeing your edit to add: I don't think it is just a religious thing. I have known a few non-religious people to do this. I think it is just a grieving thing, and because photography is available.

[sableduck]

A good friend of mine just miscarried at 18 weeks. NILMDTS's packet was in the packet of information that the hospital gave her, and had she chosen they would have photographed the 18-week-fetus. Instead she and her husband chose to hold him and have private photos taken, but even at 18 weeks there was definately a small baby to hold and she was allowed to spend some time with the body. I believe they had him cremated. By the way, she is not religious or prolife, and I don't think its a religious or prolife organization.

My parents lost a baby at 21 weeks in 1993. They have pictures of them holding him and him in his casket. They didn't let us, his siblings, see him, but later wished they had because he looked perfect, just tiny and dusky. From the photos I've seen, he was just a small baby. I'm 16 weeks now, and if I lost this baby at this point, I would probably have a small, private, family only memorial service. I know the(small,private, close family and a few friends only) funeral for my brother(closed casket, nobody but my parents ever saw the body) was very healing for my mom.

[Effie]

Thank you for explaining it to me. I think I had trouble understanding because I had never heard about people doing this with their dead fetuses/babies...

I can't help but wonder though if they will have memories which are not painful, considering they never got to know their child. If they had known the baby, then they probably would have had some happy memories as well. But why would you want to remember something that is so painful? Why do you want to be reminded of it (if it doesn't bring any good memories)?

[fakepigtails73]

I get that perhaps someone would like to take a photo of their miscarriage or stillborn...

BUT why is there such a thing as NILMDTS? I mean, why are people volunteering to take photos of dead babies? What is that good for? The grieving process of the family? Is it helpful to have a photo of a dead baby...? I simply do not understand what this is about. I have never heard about such thing before.

Is the reason religious? I mean, Christians seem to believe that the dead fetus is in heaven with God, so they will meet again. A photo of the fetus will help them remember. Also I guess it will make it easier for them to remember which fetus to look for in heaven.

I do understand the volunteering part. Some might be amateur photographers that had a stillbirth and want to give back, others could be studying in photography and see giving some time to that org. as a way to beef up a resumé, etc...

I've never even heard of that organization before Michelle's miscarriage. I think that it is a very good org., and I wonder if there is something similar here in QC. But yeah, I'd be too sensitive I think to volunteer to take pics of miscarried or stillborn babies...To each his or her own though. I hope that even if they don't charge for that service that most people would think to at least give them $$ a donation after the fact...

Yup, in the Victorian Era it was very common to have post-mortem pics of babies taken. Go see some at Google Images; I did and some of them are creepy as hell.