The Camdens and the Duggars

[snarkbillie]

Okay, :lol: I'm watching clips on YouTube now and :lol: I retract most of my posts.

I still remember Annie yelling at her husband and he didn't haul off and punch her in the jaw and I was fucking shocked. I had no frame of reference for "woman with feelings" who got to like say "you're annoying me!" and didn't get punched in the face.

[Lostie]

Okay, :lol: I'm watching clips on YouTube now and :lol: I retract most of my posts.

I still remember Annie yelling at her husband and he didn't haul off and punch her in the jaw and I was fucking shocked. I had no frame of reference for "woman with feelings" who got to like say "you're annoying me!" and didn't get punched in the face.

I'm very sorry about that. Spousal abuse is not okay.

I always loved that Annie was a strong woman, although now that I think about it Eric could be a bit of a pushover, couldn't he.

[Feberin]

If that's the ONLY thing (I never watched the show), I'm actually all for it. Once they can reach the knobs and read, why should I lug the laundry up and down three flights of stairs twice a week? That's right up there with cleaning their rooms as far as I'm concerned. Laundry isn't a very intensive chore in a modern household. It's not like you have to lug a bucket of water in from the well and heat it up yourself, scrubbing all the clothes on a washboard.

First grade might be a little young but I started doing my own laundry at eight and I don't feel like it was some huge responsibility. I actually used to do laundry for my entire family when I was in middle school since my Dad hated doing laundry and was willing to pay me $20 a week to wash everyone's clothes for him. My 1 1/2 year old already helps me put away socks whenever I do the laundry now.

I loved 7th Heaven when I was younger. I watched the first few seasons without missing an episode and occasionally tuned in for the fourth and fifth. After that I didn't really watch at all since the episodes just seemed so preachy. But I don't think you can compare the Camdens to the Duggars very much. They're both Christians and have more then the average number of kids. Their kids weren't kept at home all the time and were allowed to be friends with people the Duggars would never have allowed. Remember when Mary dated a single teen father? Can you imagine if Jana wanted to date a teen dad? And Mary was in high school at the time. Annie also never "kept sweet".

I always wondered with Ruthie why the didn't get a darker skinned individual to play one of the grandparents or another relative who had a limited appearance on the show. I understand that there are families that can have a child who is darker then the rest of the family but normally there is another relative who shares their darker coloring. But they never offered an explanation for Ruthie so I think Annie did have an affair. ;)

[Lostie]

I never thought Ruthie looked that out of place. Matt and to a lesser extent, Mary were darker as well. Adding in the fact that they lived in California and I always kind of just thought Ruthie tanned easily.

My mom and I are the same way. My mom is so tanned that people can't believe we're related. Nowadays she uses tanning beds to keep herself tan over winter, but she also just naturally tans easier and has a naturally darker skin tone. I, on the other hand, am about as pale as they come.

Edited for riffles.

[freejoytoo]

I don't know. The Camdens are a lot less crazy (and thankfully fictional) but they still acted like premarital sex is the worst thing you can do.

[AlexIsAwake]

Ok, so I haven't seen this mentioned yet...

Speaking of Ruthie, I have to say that when I was younger and the show was at the end of its run with Ruthie in her teen years, I did sorta have a girl crush on her. Maybe it was the booty dance, maybe it was her version of "Nice Work If You Can Get It," maybe it was the dark skin which always defrauds me. Anyway, not too long ago, I found myself wondering whatever happened to Mackenzie Rosman, so I googled her. One look at Google images, and all I can say is that I HOPE at least ONE of the Duggar girls goes the way of Ruthie. Seriously defrauding photos!!! Looks like she turned out to be a bit of a wild child. And since I'm partial to the dark skin, I hope it's Jessa. Any of them will do really, I just need to see one of those kids break free and go crazy like normal teenagers are apt to do.

[lindsey]

Oh god, that show was on every day after school when I was a teenager and it was my first "watch it to snark on it" show that I watched.

The episode where Annie gets all ~*~disappointed~*~ cause Simon gave someone the finger at school almost made my eyes permanently roll into the back of my head. It was so over the top stupid with her treating her own son like she's about to disown him. But then again the actress who played Annie appearantly felt that any emotion can be conveyed by looking stern and pursing your lips. I guess I can kinda understand what with her having a husband who pretends to be oh so perfect just to show off.

Lucy definitely became more and more annoying as time went on and at the point that she decided to become a pastor, she was unbearable.

But to me the worst character on that show has to be Matt. He was soooo full of himself, you could just tell he thought he was the most beautiful person to ever walk the earth. A thought that wasn't exactly warranted, IMO.

It certainly didn't help that he decided that his sisters couldn't do certain things, cause they were "improper" only to turn around and do them himself.

I believe in one episode he first wanted to forbid his sisters to go on a double date and when they did anyway he stalked them the whole time, I think while on a date himself even. IIRC, it did then turn out that he was completely justified in this because one of the guys ended up acting like a douche.

That pretty much described every episode ending though.

Whatever went on, it was always resolved at the end with the message that whoever had the most "godly" opinion that episode ended up being right and we should just do what they tell us right away.

Annoyed the hell out of me.

[AnnoDomini]

Oh yeah, I saw the 'double dating' episode. Matt was a cutie, and my favourite Matt moment ever was sometime one episode in which he miraculously sticks what looks like three-quarters of a slice of pizza into his mouth. Guy magic, I call it.

[AnnoDomini]

Bonus: Trigonometry brings the female Camdens to tears - because girls can't do math.

To be fair, I don't think that was a 'girls can't do math' moment (in fact, Annie specifically states she's good at math, just not this subject) as other clips indicate at least close to a semi-healthy feminist attitude of equality. I can't count the number of times I have cried over a high-level math concept I couldn't grasp. It looks less like 'girls can't do math' and more like 'these two people aren't good at this particular kind of math'. Sometimes it can be hard to tell the difference.

[lilwriter85]

That show is lolercoasters. Terrible acting, and every episode full of snark material. I think Brenda Hampton must be a complete wack-a-doo.

She is a wack-a-doo. The Secret Life of the American Teenager also has tons of snark material.

[icecreamycakeycake]

She is a wack-a-doo. The Secret Life of the American Teenager also has tons of snark material.

My *favorite* is the sulky, always put upon, monotone sister who's supposed to be the "rational voice". Annoying as hell.

[llv]

My *favorite* is the sulky, always put upon, monotone sister who's supposed to be the "rational voice". Annoying as hell.

I find it interesting that everybody on that show is interested in sex, ONLY sex, and ONLY with each other. They've never seriously addressed drugs, mental health, education...

My sister and I call it "The Secret Life of the American Love Triangle". Even the adults just wanna get it on. ;)

[lilwriter85]

I just found out that GMC is airing 7th Heaven reruns. I might watch a few to snark on.

[lilwriter85]

Oh god, that show was on every day after school when I was a teenager and it was my first "watch it to snark on it" show that I watched.

The episode where Annie gets all ~*~disappointed~*~ cause Simon gave someone the finger at school almost made my eyes permanently roll into the back of my head. It was so over the top stupid with her treating her own son like she's about to disown him. But then again the actress who played Annie appearantly felt that any emotion can be conveyed by looking stern and pursing your lips. I guess I can kinda understand what with her having a husband who pretends to be oh so perfect just to show off.

Lucy definitely became more and more annoying as time went on and at the point that she decided to become a pastor, she was unbearable.

But to me the worst character on that show has to be Matt. He was soooo full of himself, you could just tell he thought he was the most beautiful person to ever walk the earth. A thought that wasn't exactly warranted, IMO.

It certainly didn't help that he decided that his sisters couldn't do certain things, cause they were "improper" only to turn around and do them himself.

I believe in one episode he first wanted to forbid his sisters to go on a double date and when they did anyway he stalked them the whole time, I think while on a date himself even. IIRC, it did then turn out that he was completely justified in this because one of the guys ended up acting like a douche.

That pretty much described every episode ending though.

Whatever went on, it was always resolved at the end with the message that whoever had the most "godly" opinion that episode ended up being right and we should just do what they tell us right away.

Annoyed the hell out of me.

When I think back about 7th Heaven, Lucy and Matt were the Camden kids that annoyed me the most. I always laughed at the episode where Matt lectured Simon about rap music.

[linnea27]

omg I was crazy addicted to that show. Although the Camdens were very religious, I don't see them being like the Duggars or other fundies. Their kids went to school, all children were encouraged to go to college and pursue careers, their children dated (Mary even dated a teen dad for some time), they let "bad influences" in their home and frequently even let them live there, if memory serves...

[lilwriter85]

She broke into her high school gym with her basketball team and vandalized it. But then, she met this other couple who drank and smoked pot and had a baby out of wedlock and they made her life go down the tubes. Apparently, it was all cooked up to get Jessica Biel off the show because she posed nude in a magazine and Brenda Hampton got all in a tizzy about it. I think she had ridiculous amounts of control over the show. I recall an interview where Mackenzie (Ruthie) was talking about how she got bangs and she said something like, "We sent pictures of what my hair might look like to Brenda and she cleared it so...". I thought you had to clear getting bangs?!

On one episode they were surprisingly tolerant towards Muslims. Ruthie went to school with a Muslim girl who was bullied and so they all walked her to school and showed their solidarity. It was corny and there was sappy music but the idea behind it was nice.

On the contrary, the show never showed an interracial couple or even brought up homosexuality and same sex couples. They didn't exist in 7th Heaven land. They even had what I would call, "The Token Black Family" who was exactly like the Camdens except Black. I think they were the only people who weren't white except for the occasional one episode character here and there.

I remember the Token Black Family and Gabrielle Union played the oldest daughter. Didn't their church burn down in one episode? I think the reason Brenda Hampton and her writing team never brought up homosexuality or featured gay characters was mainly to appease most of their audience members. Now on Brenda's current show The Secret Life of the American Teenager, the topic of homosexuality has come up and there have been a few gay characters. Amy considered giving up her baby to her dad's gay employee and his partner and I also heard that another character's mom is lesbian.

[salsa]

omg I was crazy addicted to that show. Although the Camdens were very religious, I don't see them being like the Duggars or other fundies. Their kids went to school, all children were encouraged to go to college and pursue careers, their children dated (Mary even dated a teen dad for some time), they let "bad influences" in their home and frequently even let them live there, if memory serves...

I have a love/hate relationship with it. I was an adult when it aired, but my older daughter used to watch it some and I'd watch it with her.

I wouldn't call the Camdens fundie-light; they were too tolerant of others (and Lucy got ordained - female pastors are a big no-no even among "regular" conservative Christians, never mind fundie-to-any-degree). In the "do-gooder" way, they actually were pretty liberal.

I identified with their trying to live their beliefs within their home, teaching their kids values and being involved with their lives, but ultimately giving them space to come to their own conclusions. It's just :roll: on how so often the kids ended up choosing what they were being taught in the first place.

What I couldn't stand was the superiority complex of the Camdens - especially Eric. This family was THE role model for all others and they could fix anyone's problems.

I also couldn't stand the way church / congregational life was depicted. Sooooo wrong!!!! From the rather extreme deference given to Eric to the time when someone saw him driving a sports car just for kicks - and then got the finance committee to AUDIT THEIR PERSONAL FINANCES!!!! :x Not only is it inconsistent (a congregation that would ahve the authority to audit a pastor's personal finances because someone saw him taking a test drive in a sports car would not also see their pastor as an authority), but sooooo wrong in what church life is like.

[freejoytoo]

What annoyed me about them letting the 'bad influences' into their home was that it felt that they were doing it to pat themselves on the back, and none of them could help themselves without the wonderful Camdens. And I also couldn't stand that if any of them did anything 'edgy', such as listen to rap music or have a sip of beer it instantly made them a delinquent.

[lilwriter85]

I have a love/hate relationship with it. I was an adult when it aired, but my older daughter used to watch it some and I'd watch it with her.

I wouldn't call the Camdens fundie-light; they were too tolerant of others (and Lucy got ordained - female pastors are a big no-no even among "regular" conservative Christians, never mind fundie-to-any-degree). In the "do-gooder" way, they actually were pretty liberal.

I identified with their trying to live their beliefs within their home, teaching their kids values and being involved with their lives, but ultimately giving them space to come to their own conclusions. It's just :roll: on how so often the kids ended up choosing what they were being taught in the first place.

What I couldn't stand was the superiority complex of the Camdens - especially Eric. This family was THE role model for all others and they could fix anyone's problems.

I also couldn't stand the way church / congregational life was depicted. Sooooo wrong!!!! From the rather extreme deference given to Eric to the time when someone saw him driving a sports car just for kicks - and then got the finance committee to AUDIT THEIR PERSONAL FINANCES!!!! :x Not only is it inconsistent (a congregation that would ahve the authority to audit a pastor's personal finances because someone saw him taking a test drive in a sports car would not also see their pastor as an authority), but sooooo wrong in what church life is like.

I remember the sports car incident and that irked me, but I think Brenda Hampton her staff took liberties or do contrivances for the show.

[blisterine]

I just didn't like the whole message of 'this is the BEST kind of family.' And how Eric could just solve anything. If he tried nosing in on my life I would have told them that I didn't need his help nor patronsing pity and slammed the door in his face.

you better let eric in or he would send the black police officer to your house. you know, the one whose sole reason for being on the police force was to stalk the camdens.

i hated lucy's husband kevin. he looked like he would give her a black eye if she looked at him funny or burned the tater tot casserole. plus the fact he was secretly rich was just too off the wall.

[snarkbillie]

I also couldn't stand the way church / congregational life was depicted. Sooooo wrong!!!! From the rather extreme deference given to Eric to the time when someone saw him driving a sports car just for kicks - and then got the finance committee to AUDIT THEIR PERSONAL FINANCES!!!! :x Not only is it inconsistent (a congregation that would ahve the authority to audit a pastor's personal finances because someone saw him taking a test drive in a sports car would not also see their pastor as an authority), but sooooo wrong in what church life is like.

I think the back story (read: excuse for shitty plot) was that he was living in the parsonage and asking for a raise to be able to afford a car. When the church pays for your house and is going to shell out for you to get a new car, it's absolutely believable some assbag would want to comb through all the finances.

My husband used to be a minister and while we only got a paycheck from the church (no free housing) there were many in the congregation who would bitch about anything we spent money on.

"That looks like a new expensive carseat, didn't you already have one?"

"That one got recalled"

"Still would have worked though!"

Assbags, the lot of them.

[sassyNoz47]

I Love 7th Heaven ! Don't ruin it for me by comparing it with the Duggars. LOL

[itsnikki05]

I'm all for daddy-daughter dates. But not to celebrate the onset of menstruation; that's just fucking weird.

Exactly. All a daddy-daughter "date" is... is just spending one on one time with your child. Which quite frankly, every dad should do imo! KWIM? Take 'em out to a movie, go out to eat, heck... just go fishing! Whatever.

But the menstration thing creeps me out too. That is something you share with your MOTHER. My husband would say "Um, I don't know a thing in the world about that, ask your mom!" haha! Seriously. There's some business that REALLY IS best left to the mom.

[salsa]

I think the back story (read: excuse for shitty plot) was that he was living in the parsonage and asking for a raise to be able to afford a car. When the church pays for your house and is going to shell out for you to get a new car, it's absolutely believable some assbag would want to comb through all the finances.

My husband used to be a minister and while we only got a paycheck from the church (no free housing) there were many in the congregation who would bitch about anything we spent money on.

"That looks like a new expensive carseat, didn't you already have one?"

"That one got recalled"

"Still would have worked though!"

Assbags, the lot of them.

In our case, criticism like that wasn't direct, but because of our denominational system, there is a higher authority (that is, earthly authority) to appeal to. Now, if that earthly authority has his/her head up in a place that is physiologically impossible to achieve (amazing how many succeed in achieving it, though, isn't it?), the pastor is SOL. If he/she is worth his/her salt as a leader, then s/he would reassure the pastor and be on the alert for other behaviors like this from the congregation and would be prepared to address them.

My 15-yr-old headship now wants the computer. I must obey.