The Camdens and the Duggars

[lilwriter85]

I forgot all about that show.

I used to find that show so irritating (and the acting so horrible) and would only watch for the :lol: 's on rare occasions when I was channel flipping.

I found the daughter (Lucy?) the most irritating of all. Especially when she got older and got married and had kids.

ITA. I couldn't stand her husband either. His acting was bad.

[lilwriter85]

And that's why I found the show patronising! If you listened to 'that' kind of music or hung out with the 'wrong crowd' you would always end up imitating it and need helping. I know the families aren't that similar and I'd take the Camdens over the Duggars in a heartbeat but I still find them effing annoying. It just gave off this air of 'look at how great the Camdens are. Aren't they the perfect family?'

I hated the episodes that dealt with evil music. I remember the episode in which Matt bitched at Simon for listening to rap. That episode was so cringeworthy.

[AnnoDomini]

Took me a couple looks at the title before 'Camdens' registered for what it was. From what I saw, the Camdens were pretty mainstream practicing Christians, and fairly liberal at that, what with believing it was ok to have boy/girlfriends and female preachers.

[blisterine]

the two families also had the name things going on.

the duggars went the j route

the camdens named all their children after biblical characters. even lucy. ya know? lucifer!

[lilwriter85]

Took me a couple looks at the title before 'Camdens' registered for what it was. From what I saw, the Camdens were pretty mainstream practicing Christians, and fairly liberal at that, what with believing it was ok to have boy/girlfriends and female preachers.

I agree. I would label the Camdens mainstream rather that fundie lite.

[Kitty]

I remember reading somewhere that the actress had a Native American parent. I agree she didn't fit in with the family.

There are plenty of people who don't fit in with their families in real life. My sister had the darker skin and hair Ruthie did, there's no Native American ancestry on either side. I look like my mom but with some of my dad's features... my sister looks like neither, except my dad is also dark-skinned (though he used to be very light-skinned and somewhat gingery, like me). So I never thought anything of it.

[llv]

My fav. 7th heaven episode was when Matt smokes a joint and his family goes apeshit. (

)

I did watch the show as a child. The problem I realise now is that the dad assumes all deviations from the fundie-lite norm are going to ruin your life. e.g. if you listen to rap you are going to abuse women and think rape is ok; if you smoke pot you're going to become a drug addict.

I still like the show, but basically for the lulz it provides.

[lilwriter85]

My fav. 7th heaven episode was when Matt smokes a joint and his family goes apeshit. (

)

I did watch the show as a child. The problem I realise now is that the dad assumes all deviations from the fundie-lite norm are going to ruin your life. e.g. if you listen to rap you are going to abuse women and think rape is ok; if you smoke pot you're going to become a drug addict.

I still like the show, but basically for the lulz it provides.

LOL. I remember that one.

[BoomerLynn]

There are plenty of people who don't fit in with their families in real life. My sister had the darker skin and hair Ruthie did, there's no Native American ancestry on either side. I look like my mom but with some of my dad's features... my sister looks like neither, except my dad is also dark-skinned (though he used to be very light-skinned and somewhat gingery, like me). So I never thought anything of it.

I see your point. I think the reason she always stood out to me was that the family was this white, upper middle-class, cookie-cutter version of a good Christian Family living in the suburbs and then there's darker-skinned, dark-haired Ruthie. She didn't seem to fit the stereotype the show was portraying. On a completely shallow note, I do think she was the prettiest of the 3 girls.

[Kitty]

I see your point. I think the reason she always stood out to me was that the family was this white, upper middle-class, cookie-cutter version of a good Christian Family living in the suburbs and then there's darker-skinned, dark-haired Ruthie. She didn't seem to fit the stereotype the show was portraying. On a completely shallow note, I do think she was the prettiest of the 3 girls.

My family fits most of that stereotype, only you can tell we've lived out in the middle of nowhere too long (that, and my parents fail horribly at being Southern Baptist). Even more reason not to think about it at all. But I think the stereotype of light-skinned families in the suburbs is going away. Everyone's still white, they're just a heavily tanned white with dark hair and eyes. To be fair some of the actresses are Latina, but they still look like my totally not-Latina sister with slightly darker hair.

Even among the lily-white fundie families we snark on here, there's some kids who are just darker-skinned than the rest. There's like 8 different genes that control skin color, the darker-skinned kids just have the darker genes that are hidden away in everyone else.

[clover_leigh]

Remember when the dad was watching the youngest daughter booty shaking and dirty dancing through her cracked bedroom door? I'll never forget how creeped out that made me feel.

Oh and,yeah,Lucy was horrendous.

[AmericanRose]

I watched 7th Heaven for the first two seasons, but then Lucy got boy-crazy and it seemed to be all about her finding a boyfriend - and going about it in a very shrill voice - so I stopped watching. I tuned in occasionally over the years and though it was never what I would call 'great TV', it just seemed to get more and more like a soap opera.

Remember when the dad was watching the youngest daughter booty shaking and dirty dancing through her cracked bedroom door? I'll never forget how creeped out that made me feel.

Oh and,yeah,Lucy was horrendous.

Ohh yeah. I remember that. That was one of those "wow inappropiate" moments! I'm not sure if it was better or worse than Mary wanting her older brother to help her 'practice' kiss.. well, remembering the look on Ruthie's face when she noticed her dad watching, I'm going to go with 'worse'. :x

[SheWoreLemon]

Here's a link to all to all the recaps from Television Without Pity. This is before TWOP went corporate, so I remember these recaps being very funny and biting.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5872&start=20

[xDreamerx]

Watched every episode. Don't judge me. lol. I actually really liked Lucy, granted she whined like no tomorrow but she was a very emotional/insecure young woman who was just trying to find her way. I related to that, even if I did not have the extreme reactions that she did.

Another difference aside from advocating college and careers even for girls is that they allowed their children to try out different faiths. Well, not really try out. I just remember an episode where Simon & Ruthie did something wrong and they went to a Catholic church as well as a Buddhist temple to try and seek advice.

On the contrary to that when Lucy wanted to read about different faiths before deciding to be Confirmed (I was confused by this as they were "non denominational"), Eric allowed her to read about Quakers, Buddhists etc. but then commented to Annie that she would be learning in her seat in his confirmation classes so he wasn't truly open to her exploring other faiths.

They put unnecessary amounts of responsibility on young children. Ruthie was expected to do her own laundry in order to pick out her own clothes. She was like in first grade.

They don't allow for much individual expression. When Simon spiked his hair they had a fit. When he cut the sleeves off his shirt Lucy yelled at him because he didn't pay for them, his parents did so therefore he had no right to "damage" them.

[Conuly]

They put unnecessary amounts of responsibility on young children. Ruthie was expected to do her own laundry in order to pick out her own clothes. She was like in first grade.

If that's the ONLY thing (I never watched the show), I'm actually all for it. Once they can reach the knobs and read, why should I lug the laundry up and down three flights of stairs twice a week? That's right up there with cleaning their rooms as far as I'm concerned. Laundry isn't a very intensive chore in a modern household. It's not like you have to lug a bucket of water in from the well and heat it up yourself, scrubbing all the clothes on a washboard.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

I'm more of a "daddy hanging out with daughters"... Dating is what you do when you are in a romantic relationship.

this. if someone in Australia said I'm going on a date with my Daddy they'd think it was some sugar daddy. if you said no its my real father...well it sounds incestual.

[freejoytoo]

I'm all for daddy-daughter dates. But not to celebrate the onset of menstruation; that's just fucking weird.

Yeah, wouldn't it be more appropriate for your mother to take you out for lunch? At least she could tell you what to expect.

LOL. I remember that one.

That clip sums up everything hilarious about 7th Heaven. If I'm having a bad day sometimes I watch that - the best part is where the dad bangs against the door at the end :lol:

For a show being promoted for being so 'clean', so to say, there was some weird stuff going on, like Ruthie's booty dance, as someone mentioned, and Mary trying to kiss her brother. I also thought Matt had a disturbing interest in his sisters' sex lives - like the one where he basically chases his sisters when they go on a date to make sure they don't 'go all the way', like it's any of his business, and how he insisted on delivering Lucy's baby. Going back to the one where he made sure his sister's didn't sleep with their boyfriends, it killed where the boy drove back to the Camdens' house and sat down for a heart-to-heart with the parents about how their daughters were trying to do too much too soon. What was that?

I really thought that show had a creepy attitude towards sex which at best (if you can call it that) leant towards being incredibly sexist and at worst leant towards being incestuous.

[Visionoyahweh]

I'm betting Michelle is a lot like the Annie in these clips.

Bonus: Trigonometry brings the female Camdens to tears - because girls can't do math.

[freejoytoo]

If I was serving Annie I'd be a bitch to her too. And I've worked in retail and I know how to perfect the fake smile for customers.

Here's another crazy clip. You know it's bad when your kid dresses 'differently' and spikes his hair - he might do THIS

Out of curiosity, what did Mary do that warranted being sent away? Didn't she have a sip of beer and get drunk or something?

[Lostie]

Haha, okay that was a bit over the top. Now I really want to watch 7th Heaven and see if it seems more lulzy than it used to. No parent wants their kid to be giving the finger (as far as I can tell anyway), but that seemed a bit excessive.

[Fun-Dee]

I started watching the show when it was a cute little family show. Then the crazy began. By that time I couldn't look away. Then they announced it was the last season, so I kept watching. Then they had a second last season. So of course I had to watch that too. I think the most fundie aspect of the show was when Lucy married that smarmy, patronizing, passive aggressive guy and everyone thought he was wonderful. He made my skin crawl. Everything he said sounded like a threat.

One of my favorite later episodes was when the twins found out that if you give someone oreos, they will tell you all their secrets. The whole episode was about oreos. Sponsored by oreo, of course.

[xDreamerx]

If I was serving Annie I'd be a bitch to her too. And I've worked in retail and I know how to perfect the fake smile for customers.

Here's another crazy clip. You know it's bad when your kid dresses 'differently' and spikes his hair - he might do THIS

Out of curiosity, what did Mary do that warranted being sent away? Didn't she have a sip of beer and get drunk or something?

She broke into her high school gym with her basketball team and vandalized it. But then, she met this other couple who drank and smoked pot and had a baby out of wedlock and they made her life go down the tubes. Apparently, it was all cooked up to get Jessica Biel off the show because she posed nude in a magazine and Brenda Hampton got all in a tizzy about it. I think she had ridiculous amounts of control over the show. I recall an interview where Mackenzie (Ruthie) was talking about how she got bangs and she said something like, "We sent pictures of what my hair might look like to Brenda and she cleared it so...". I thought you had to clear getting bangs?!

On one episode they were surprisingly tolerant towards Muslims. Ruthie went to school with a Muslim girl who was bullied and so they all walked her to school and showed their solidarity. It was corny and there was sappy music but the idea behind it was nice.

On the contrary, the show never showed an interracial couple or even brought up homosexuality and same sex couples. They didn't exist in 7th Heaven land. They even had what I would call, "The Token Black Family" who was exactly like the Camdens except Black. I think they were the only people who weren't white except for the occasional one episode character here and there.

[kpmom]

I'm betting Michelle is a lot like the Annie in these clips.

Bonus: Trigonometry brings the female Camdens to tears - because girls can't do math.

Very Christian of Annie yelling at the minimum wage store clerk. You go, Annie!

[freejoytoo]

Of course there wasn't an episode about homosexuality or abortion - the Camdens probably would have been less than nice about it, or, if they had been, there probably would have some kind of outcry, probably either way, actually. Would have been interesting though. One episode which infuriated me was where Annie basically pushes these two pregnant girls back towards their boyfriends when they clearly didn't want to see them. Fuck you Annie.

Haha at Mary's 'bad behavior'. We all know that if you meet people on the 'edge' you're going to fall off it....guess what, I've known people who have smoked weed and more and none of the people from school with babies are married and I haven't ended up vandalising anything. Still, I'm probably the kind of person the Camdens would want to try and convert or something away from my liberal ways.

I liked that they had a Muslim character but man, she couldn't act. She was worse than Ruthie. Not quite as bad as the Zombie Twins though - what exactly was the point in them? And didn't they get homeschooled?

Also, going back to the Muslim girl, whilst it was nice that they addressed the issue of prejudice, I thought they went about in a kind of crappy way. Didn't they try and get a petition against racism or something? I suspect no one signed it because everyone knew that it wouldn't do anything. I also thought it came off as slightly patronising - being bullied? Ruthie'll know what to do, because she has so much experience of being bullied about her religion....

SheWoreLemon, thank you for the link but it doesn't work when I click on it - it just refreshes the same page.

ETA: Wow, I just watched the clip where Ruthie dances. It's weird how her dad walks in and just sort of stares at her but the creepiest part is how Ruthie sees him, gives him a sexy look and carries on!

[icecreamycakeycake]

That show is lolercoasters. Terrible acting, and every episode full of snark material. I think Brenda Hampton must be a complete wack-a-doo.