People is reporting that Michelle Duggar miscarried MERGED

[JenniferJuniper]

If they focus on the fundie market, I can see the Duggars going back to their countenance-enhancing collars, matching clothes made of Walmart bargain bin fabric, and scary discipline. They can't come off as too worldly if they want to succeed there.

The genie may not be so easy to get back in the bottle.

They may have maneuvered themselves into a corner. Mainstream people clearly think they used the miscarriage to make an overt political statement and it seems most find it distasteful in the extreme. And I'm not sure donning frumpers again is going to fool any hardcore fundies into thinking the Duggars aren't now worldly famous folk who have ruined their kids with iPhones, styling clothes, and regular contact with people wearing short shorts and plunging necklines.

It didn't have to be this way. If they'd truly wanted privacy and mourned quietly, I think they would have had a lot of sympathy all around. But like many famous people, they believed they were far more important and powerful than they really are. They overplayed their hand and I think, aside from a small circle, interest in them is going to drop off pretty quickly.

[GatorGutCasserole]

All this never happens if they send a short article on their los, with most important basic details, but the Duggards kept pushing their 'grief' along with some unneccessary, gorey, phoney, bogus details, into our faces, down our throats. Why should the media have simpathy? Why should them be smarter?

[lilwriter85]

Not the ones posting comments under the article connected to that Yahoo poll!

I have noticed that. Right now the support comments for the Duggars could be from some of their die hard fans. I think the lesser die hard fans are slowly seeing the family in a different light.

[JenniferJuniper]

I have noticed that. Right now the support comments for the Duggars could be from some of their die hard fans. I think the lesser die hard fans are slowly seeing the family in a different light.

I never read Yahoo commentary because it always seems mostly only the nuts and extremists comment. The poll is over 50,000 now with the numbers still heavily against the Duggars.

[Mama Mia]

I'm not "not coming back" I have a fucking job ... one that happens to be incredibly busy around the holidays because people are extra stressed and fall apart and we deal with that PLUS making sure they all have gifts PLUS making sure they get gifts even when the donors flake out and so on and so on. I also have a family, and I also would kind of maybe like to get around to buying some Christmas gifts in the next few days. So yeah, my time for internet timesucks is somewhat limited at the moment.

Should a man be able to force a woman into mediation against their will --- if he isn't abusive, and if there isn't a medical issue -- yes. He should be able to force her to go to 2 sessions of mediation if he is willing to take on the responsibility of rearing the child himself. She can still say no after the mediation.

I know you do not agree with that, I know you think that the woman's body and choice is the only thing that matters. I disagree. I have said I disagree repeatedly. Don't know how much clearer I can be with that. Since many states seem to have huge issues with access / timing/ money etc.. have it be on a state by state basis - although a handful of fathers who might be able and willing to take on child rearing from a woman who comes to an agreement with him through mediation - hardly seems to be the biggest issue you have with barriers to care.

People with differing views go to counseling all the time to come to resolution. It is sometimes called "Conflict Resolution" .. perhaps you've heard of it ? Some people even go to school to learn how to talk people through their difficulties.

I have absolutely no idea what the comment about shaming a teenage boy is even supposed to mean. Was that aimed at me ? Because I really don't know what you are talking about.

[goldennotebook]

Well, at least you've owned up to the fact that you do think a man has a right to force a woman into a "mediation" which she does not consent to, nevermind the fact that to force someone into a "mediation" is itself disingenuous and rather outside the spirit of - well - mediation.

So you've admitted that a man's opinion trumps a woman's right to obtain an elective surgical procedure concerning her own body safely and as quickly as possible. Thanks for the honesty, at least.

Now I'll be honest with you: that's a terrible fucking opinion and you're not truly "pro-choice".

[Buzzard]

http://www.examiner.com/technology-in-n ... less-video

Similar poll here, but the majority find it "tasteful". grumph!

[Mama Mia]

Oh no.. I don't get the "pro-choice" brownie button ..sob.. how will I deal with the social ambiguity... all my opinions don't fit into a proscribed matching box..whatever will I do.

If I go argue on some rabidly "pro-life" site about the things I think are stupid or should be changed do I get a prize if they say I don't get to be called "pro-life" ?

[goldennotebook]

You don't have to like abortion - I don't "like" or "dislike" it because it's a surgical procedure like any other - but willfully admitting you think it's OK for a man to endanger a woman's personal health by forcing what would in the real world be a lengthy, extensive mediation process - when every day counts - is a really shitty way to feel and indicates you don't truly believe the choice is fully a woman's to make. It's not about your opinions being in a "matching box", it's about you having a internally consistent moral framework which you clearly lack. Endangering a woman so that a man can work out his feefees (and possibly use it as a tool of further harassment) is shitty.

[valsa]

Should a man be able to force a woman into mediation against their will --- if he isn't abusive, and if there isn't a medical issue -- yes. He should be able to force her to go to 2 sessions of mediation if he is willing to take on the responsibility of rearing the child himself.

Aaaaaand your opinions just became irrelevant. Thanks for playing and enjoy your parting gift.

[rachelsmith1989]

I think and hope that the Duggars' show is heading towards the garbage. I really don't see how any kind of damage control will save them now. I noticed on a few episodes how they have tired to answer criticisms indirectly and give off "screw you internet" comments. Sorry Duggars, I think that a chours of "So Long Farewell" is in your near future. :violin:

It's insane to think of how long that song would be with all of them singing their part... :clap:

[Witsec1]

I have absolutely no idea what the comment about shaming a teenage boy is even supposed to mean. Was that aimed at me ? Because I really don't know what you are talking about.

Well, Mrs. CrankyPants, you seem to have a problem with us disrespecting teh menz rights and talking smack about teh poor menz. Whereas I think the main problem fucking with people's heads and preventing communication between men and women, are the damn religious whackjobs - you know, the folks who are the point of this board?

Please don't come back, I think you've made your point clear. You've also made it clear that you subscribe to the variety of magical thinking which believes that your actions will have only the intended consequences. Because I can tell you right now and with utmost certainty that your plan would result in fewer men getting to talk to their partners about the abortion decision than is the case now. If a woman is at all uncertain about how her partner will react, she's more likely to simply not tell him about the abortion, and not give his name to the authorities. That way she doesn't have to deal with the possible delay and hassle.

[Mama Mia]

I lack a 'consistent moral framework" because I disagree with you ? That is so fucking hilarious you ridiculous hypocrite.

[Witsec1]

I lack a 'consistent moral framework" because I disagree with you ? That is so fucking hilarious you ridiculous hypocrite.

Well you lack consistent something because your plan would have the opposite of the effect you intend. Unless you are willing to go to police-state levels of interference in people's private lives.

[Trillian]

Should a man be able to force a woman into mediation against their will --- if he isn't abusive, and if there isn't a medical issue -- yes. He should be able to force her to go to 2 sessions of mediation if he is willing to take on the responsibility of rearing the child himself. She can still say no after the mediation.

Oh FUCK OFF! You must have a set of balls down there or something to believe something so utterly fucking disrespectful to women. Oh the poor menz, they just can't handle having a say in what a woman does WITH HER OWN BODY so they need to force her to go through a pregnancy they don't want. How can you call yourself a woman if you think shit like this? MY BODY MY BABY MY CHOICE!!

[portinari]

It's not that they're going public about it. It's that they're using their dead child as a political statement (and source of income).

This 100%. I am disgusted and appalled by Boob and Mullet in ways I never thought I would be. These people have no shame. Maybe Kris Jenner and Michelle can get together and talk shop.

[Mama Mia]

So .. "My Body My BABY My Choice" ....

But even though you seem to consider it a 'baby', as in, you know a human being made up from TWO parents ( not just your own special extra sensitive self who will fall all to pieces if her choices are questioned for more than two seconds ) ..you don't think the other parent has any voice. Very, very telling. And extremely entertaining. Hope you don't want child support - since you know it is just "your baby".

And that's right, ALL women have to have the same opinion on every thing. Does that go for all of any other group ? Do I get to have divergent views on any other topic ... or does this cover any other racist, classist, ethnocentric belief system you ascribe to a group ? Or is gender the only thing that matters ? And if gender IS the only thing that matters you are at least as brainwashed and braindead as any of the fundies. Newsflash sweetie - Feminism does NOT equal mindless agreement on all issues.

[Witsec1]

Newsflash sweetie - Feminism does NOT equal mindless agreement on all issues.

No, but it does require an acknowlegement that basic human rights (privacy, self-determination) apply to women as well as men. And that men do not need special government programs to encourage them to express their opinions about what women should do with their bodies. There seems to be enough of that without government subsidy.

[muffynbear]

Should a man be able to force a woman into mediation against their will --- if he isn't abusive, and if there isn't a medical issue -- yes. He should be able to force her to go to 2 sessions of mediation if he is willing to take on the responsibility of rearing the child himself. She can still say no after the mediation.

OMFG, really? You consider yourself a woman? That's one of the most misogynistic pieces of shit I've read in awhile. My body, my choice . You should really mind your own business when it comes to other women's reproductive choices. WTF will mediation solve anyway? Mediation isn't fucking realistic anyway. BTW, I would never let any MAN tell me what to do when it comes to my reproductive rights.

[valsa]

not just your own special extra sensitive self who will fall all to pieces if her choices are questioned for more than two seconds

How many times do we have to say it to get it through your thick skull? The problem is not that a woman might change her mind- it's that you're advocating allowing a man to force a woman to put her health at risk. The weeks it would take to mediate the process wwould be enough to make her abortion more complicated and higher risk. You would put women's lives and health in danger.

[Trillian]

So .. "My Body My BABY My Choice" ....

But even though you seem to consider it a 'baby', as in, you know a human being made up from TWO parents ( not just your own special extra sensitive self who will fall all to pieces if her choices are questioned for more than two seconds ) ..you don't think the other parent has any voice. Very, very telling. And extremely entertaining. Hope you don't want child support - since you know it is just "your baby".

And that's right, ALL women have to have the same opinion on every thing. Does that go for all of any other group ? Do I get to have divergent views on any other topic ... or does this cover any other racist, classist, ethnocentric belief system you ascribe to a group ? Or is gender the only thing that matters ? And if gender IS the only thing that matters you are at least as brainwashed and braindead as any of the fundies. Newsflash sweetie - Feminism does NOT equal mindless agreement on all issues.

Absofuckinglutely it is my baby. Unless you are living in an alternate reality where the menz are able to be pregnant, then yes, while ever i am the one who is carrying the 'baby' (and for fucks sake, you are playing semantics on that one!) then it is MY choice and MY choice only whether I continue that pregnancy. NONE of what happens to a woman's body during pregnancy gives ANY MAN the right to dictate what should happen. And what the fuck is the point of your mediation if the woman still gets the final say? Oh I know! it is so the menz can delay the woman from having a termination for as long as he can by drawing out the mediation process which will make it nigh on impossible for a woman to then seek a termination. You have no clue at all. Standing up for womens rights isn't about agreeing 100%, it's fighting for their right to have a choice in the first place. And YOU should care because YOU are a woman. One day this may affect you. Or maybe not. By the sounds of it you'd put up with being pg even if you didn't want to just because of what a MAN tells you to do. "Righto wench, back to the kitchen with you and take off your fucking shoes while you're at it!"

[formergothardite]

How many times do we have to say it to get it through your thick skull? The problem is not that a woman might change her mind- it's that you're advocating allowing a man to force a woman to put her health at risk. The weeks it would take to mediate the process wwould be enough to make her abortion more complicated and higher risk. You would put women's lives and health in danger.

Exactly. And I want her to clearly say "I am willing to give men the right to put women's lives at risk. And I don't give a shit about the woman."

[Constance Vigilance]

[goldennotebook]

MrsS2004, perhaps you should step back and consider the fact that not one person here seems to think your "idea" has any merit. If a bunch of intelligent women say it's shit, it's probably not chocolate pudding.

[goldennotebook]

You also sound like you have some internalized anti-woman discourse that you're unaware of - saying that a man telling a woman that he may have an opinion, but it's ultimately up to her, which is the only decent response - is "groveling", and classifying someone's own medical decision about the course of their own body as a "special snowflake opinion."