Pillow in the crib?

[ladypuglover]

No. It's just that the whole Back to Sleep program didn't even start until the mid 90s. By that time most of the women I know who are grandmothers were already long done having babies.

Try mid 80's, my nephew was born in 86 and my sister was told this. I think it was Luvs diapers that printed something like that on their diapers in the late 80's.

Pillows are a big no-no, as are blankets, stuffed animals, and more recently, crib bumpers. Parents are told to put their babies to sleep on their backs, except some preemies, who are supposed to be put on their bellies. I'm not sure why, though- my kids were all full-term.

I don't know what your doctor said but every doctor I know has said all preemies on the back and tilted with head over heart, like I said in my second post. Unless you are standing there watching the baby or baby is hooked up to monitors, back is always better than stomach. With 10 preemies in our family and 2 more due at the first of the year, this is something I really do know. :(

[apple1]

No. It's just that the whole Back to Sleep program didn't even start until the mid 90s. By that time most of the women I know who are grandmothers were already long done having babies.

"Back to Sleep" might be a 90s program.

But the instructions were very clear, no pillow, when mine were born in 81 and 83. And, as I said, it's common sense anyway. (Wow, my own mom kept the pillows out, and I was born in 53, although I don't think any doctor told her that...)

As I said, extremely condescending. Some of us had common sense (hey, at least enough common sense to get our kids raised to adulthood).

ETA: But we WERE told to put our babies to sleep on their bellies- with the instruction that if they vomited, they wouldn't aspirate it that way. That instruction has clearly changed since my generation had babies. Interesting how the experts KNEW that was the case, and now the same experts KNOW the opposite.

[oscar]

The "Back to Sleep" campaign was a 90s thing - it started in 1992. It is associated with a 40% decrease in the incidence of SIDS (Pediatrics 2000;105: 650–656). However, it has also been associated with a rise in the incidence of positional cranial deformation, which has a causal relationship with supine sleep position (Plast Reconstr Surg 1999;103:371–380, Pediatrics 1996; 97:877–885). The deformation tends to be more dramatic among bottle-propped babies, either because they develop a preference for resting their head slightly to one side, which creates asymmetry, or simply because they tend to spend more time lying down than babies whose caregivers interact with them more.

For babies who show signs of positional deformation, the advice is to minimize their time in swings and carseats, and make sure they spend time on their tummies when they are awake. If that is ineffective, treatment may include physical therapy, special helmets, or in extreme cases, surgery (Pediatrics 2003; 112:199–202).

(I wrote my honors thesis on cultural practices of cranial deformation, but stopped following the literature in 2003.)

[Kaylee]

Yes, education is great, but the best thing is to get the deaths stopped first! Gotta love new parents getting all butthurt over health campaigns addressing the actually irresponsible parents . . .

[insert sarcastic comment about irony of pro-life people being upset by campaigns like this]

The reason some people are upset is that it doesn't differentiate between safe & unsafe co-sleeping. There is no education, just scare tactics and more encouragement for people to point fingers at co-sleeping parents.

There are plenty of irresponsible parents who use cribs, as well, but we address safety issues with cribs one at a time, have recalls, and blame the manufacturers or circumstances, not the parents, when a child suffocates or dies of SIDS in a crib, and even for injuries from getting caught in the slats or climbing/falling out.

I also remember reading statistics while I was pregnant that showed a much higher correlation between SIDS and bottle-feeding than between SIDS and co-sleeping, but people would be raising hell if they started a campaign saying it was dangerous or irresponsible not to breastfeed, or showing a butcher's knife hanging over your baby in place of a propped-up bottle.

[Kaylee]

No blankets? Really? pillows and stuffed animals make sense. I don't know what crib bumpers are, but blankets? what's wrong with those? And In certain climates, they really can be quite necessary.

Yes, because blankets can bunch up around their face and suffocate them, especially once they are old enough to wiggle and squirm or flop over, but maybe not to wake up know to pull the blanket away. That's why they sell the little sleep sacks, footed sleepers, and swaddlers, to keep them wrapped and warm without loose blankets in the crib.

Crib bumpers are those quilted things that people put around the inside of a crib to pad it and/or keep the baby from sticking and arm or leg through the bars. There are breathable mesh ones now, but the fabric/quilted ones are bad because the baby can roll up against it and not be able to breathe.

[Beeks]

The reason some people are upset is that it doesn't differentiate between safe & unsafe co-sleeping. There is no education, just scare tactics and more encouragement for people to point fingers at co-sleeping parents.

There are plenty of irresponsible parents who use cribs, as well, but we address safety issues with cribs one at a time, have recalls, and blame the manufacturers or circumstances, not the parents, when a child suffocates or dies of SIDS in a crib, and even for injuries from getting caught in the slats or climbing/falling out.

I also remember reading statistics while I was pregnant that showed a much higher correlation between SIDS and bottle-feeding than between SIDS and co-sleeping, but people would be raising hell if they started a campaign saying it was dangerous or irresponsible not to breastfeed, or showing a butcher's knife hanging over your baby in place of a propped-up bottle.

I laughed out loud when I read this. I can't breastfeed (literally CAN'T - I have no breast tissue)....do you know how much shit I've taken from doctors, nurses, other moms, complete strangers, you name it?! Trust me, there is a huge campaign telling us that it's dangerous and irresponsible not to breastfeed.

ETA: and that co-sleeping ad campaign only shows dangerous situations, so I don't see the big hoopla.

[FakePigtails]

The reason some people are upset is that it doesn't differentiate between safe & unsafe co-sleeping. There is no education, just scare tactics and more encouragement for people to point fingers at co-sleeping parents.

There are plenty of irresponsible parents who use cribs, as well, but we address safety issues with cribs one at a time, have recalls, and blame the manufacturers or circumstances, not the parents, when a child suffocates or dies of SIDS in a crib, and even for injuries from getting caught in the slats or climbing/falling out.

I also remember reading statistics while I was pregnant that showed a much higher correlation between SIDS and bottle-feeding than between SIDS and co-sleeping, but people would be raising hell if they started a campaign saying it was dangerous or irresponsible not to breastfeed, or showing a butcher's knife hanging over your baby in place of a propped-up bottle.

My issue with the fuss is that these are aimed at inner-city areas where education and resources are a problem. The mothers aren't going to hop onto Amazon (they might not even have internet service) or stop by a Barnes and Noble to pick up a parenting book to learn what to do. Maybe they don't see the big deal with using money that could go to buying a crib for food or the heating bill instead.

This isn't aimed at well-educated parents with tons of resources at hand and time to use them. They can try to educate but it's only going to go so far. If they want to *save lives* the most effective thing in these areas is to go with the scare tactics and end the practice.

(really, I'm not anti-cosleeping)

[2xx1xy1JD]

Oh I saw some complaining about that on facebook. Fun stuff. And Catholic Answers is in on it too: http://forums.catholic.com/showthread.php?t=616497

Yes, education is great, but the best thing is to get the deaths stopped first! Gotta love new parents getting all butthurt over health campaigns addressing the actually irresponsible parents . . .

[insert sarcastic comment about irony of pro-life people being upset by campaigns like this]

My issue with the whole "co-sleeping will kill your baby" approach is that it's complete overkill that DOESN'T teach people how to co-sleep safely.

They don't break down the stats to show risks that come from co-sleeping itself, versus unsafe practices such as pillows and fluffy bedding, using a couch instead of a bed, having a parent who is obese or drunk or otherwise not suitable for co-sleeping, etc.

They point out that tons of babies end up sleeping with adults. No shit. When you are exhausted because you are feeding a baby every few hours, and especially if you are breastfeeding and having hormones acting as a sedative, you WILL fall asleep. You can either plan for it so it's done safely, or just allow for it to happen regardless of safety issues.

My other pet peeve is that nobody is crunching the numbers to determine the risk posed by sleep-deprived parents. We are learning that driving drowsy can be equivalent to driving drunk. Fatigue is also a factor in post-partum depression, impairs reflexes, increases frustration, etc. If co-sleeping reduces fatigue (which was most certainly the case with most oldest daughter), is the result a net decrease in risk?

[FakePigtails]

My issue with the whole "co-sleeping will kill your baby" approach is that it's complete overkill that DOESN'T teach people how to co-sleep safely.

They don't break down the stats to show risks that come from co-sleeping itself, versus unsafe practices such as pillows and fluffy bedding, using a couch instead of a bed, having a parent who is obese or drunk or otherwise not suitable for co-sleeping, etc.

They point out that tons of babies end up sleeping with adults. No shit. When you are exhausted because you are feeding a baby every few hours, and especially if you are breastfeeding and having hormones acting as a sedative, you WILL fall asleep. You can either plan for it so it's done safely, or just allow for it to happen regardless of safety issues.

My other pet peeve is that nobody is crunching the numbers to determine the risk posed by sleep-deprived parents. We are learning that driving drowsy can be equivalent to driving drunk. Fatigue is also a factor in post-partum depression, impairs reflexes, increases frustration, etc. If co-sleeping reduces fatigue (which was most certainly the case with most oldest daughter), is the result a net decrease in risk?

Please read the post I made that's just before yours.

[Austin]

I am not "anti-cosleeping", but I do think many cosleepers downplay the dangers of it. It's not like no danger exists. There are ways to avoid much of it, but that doesn't mean that it's not a valid concern.

Flame away! :D

[stabbycat]

So *that's* what crib bumpers are for! I'd get the mesh ones, but my son would probably get mad that he can't put his feet through the crib. I hear that their dangerous once a baby is old enough to pull himself up because they can try to use them to climb out of the crib.

[NurseNell]

Back to the pillow in the bed. I left a reply on the blog about the pillow, saying I hoped it was only for propping the baby for the photos. It was never approved so I guess they tossed it.

[antifundie]

My SIL let her son sleep with her, but she said when they were doing some class at the hospital, the staff told them "Don't do it, but if you're going to do it (since many people do) here's how to do it safely."

Actually reminds me of sensible sex ed for middle/high-schoolers.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I looked again at the ads, and also went back to the article in the Milwalkee-Wisconsin Journal Sentinel on the high rate of infant mortality.

Here is an excerpt:

Stinson was 14 when she gave birth to Kelviana on July 28, 2003.

Kelviana was 14 weeks premature. She weighed less than 2 pounds.

She spent most of her life at St. Joseph's. The complications stemming from her preterm birth were legion: She suffered damage to her eyes and central nervous system, she bled into her brain, she was jaundiced, she had to be intubated and required a chest tube.

But she survived. By her 6-month checkup, her condition had stabilized and she seemed fine.

A young life lost

On April 15, 2004, while visiting her father's home, Kelviana spent the night in her grandparents' bed.

According to a medical examiner's report, the grandfather created a pile of pillows, blankets and dolls so she would not roll off the bed. The infant's grandmother, after taking a sleeping pill, joined her. Later, so did her grandfather, who had been drinking, according to the report.

The grandfather found Kelviana in the morning with her head over the side of the mattress, resting on the pile of blankets. He picked her up and put her to his shoulder. She vomited blood and sputum.

Kelviana was pronounced dead two minutes after arriving at St. Joseph's. The medical examiner ruled sudden infant death syndrome as her cause of death, with co-sleeping and prematurity as contributing causes.

It's just far too simplistic to say that clo-sleeping killed this baby. The pile of pillows, grandmother with a sleeping pill, grandfather who was drinking, all played a role, and her previous health issues may have been a factor as well.

So, why not just say "no co-sleeping" anyway to be safe? For some of the same reasons that abstinence-only is bad sex ed. What are the odds that this family would have had a perfectly safe crib, meeting all of the latest guidelines, at the grandparents? Might they have picked up an old crib at a garage sale that had an unsafe drop side, or lead paint, or posts that could lead to strangulation? Would they have been tempted to have the baby sleep in a car seat instead? Even if they did, what are the odds that they would have used the crib safely, with no pillows or blankets?

If the mother had been taught safe co-sleeping at the hospital and/or public pre or post-natal classes, it may have been second nature for her. She would have naturally slept without pillow and blankets, positioned herself properly, and made sure that she was the only one to be sleeping with the baby. The baby's sleep routine wouldn't have changed while visiting family.

Also, see the other horrible thread here about the toddler beaten to death for not going to sleep. I'm not excusing the mother's actions at all, but we know that violence against children increases when parents are sleep-deprived. In families that are already under stress due to poverty etc, that's also a safety concern.

[Austin]

I think that both sides of this argument are awfully rigid and self-righteous in their "rightness". Why not say that there are risks/dangers, and here's what they are?

I think the way this article handles it is good:

http://www.mumsnet.com/babies/cosleeping

Not every mother gets more rest with co-sleeping. I am an extremely light sleeper and literally could not get a wink with a baby in bed with us. I found that I was more rested with baby sleeping right next to my side of the bed in a bassinet. But I suppose Dr. Sears and his ilk would not think I had bonded well enough with my infants :roll:

Anyway, there's a lot of judgment from both sides.

[2xx1xy1JD]

I think that both sides of this argument are awfully rigid and self-righteous in their "rightness". Why not say that there are risks/dangers, and here's what they are?

I think the way this article handles it is good:

http://www.mumsnet.com/babies/cosleeping

Not every mother gets more rest with co-sleeping. I am an extremely light sleeper and literally could not get a wink with a baby in bed with us. I found that I was more rested with baby sleeping right next to my side of the bed in a bassinet. But I suppose Dr. Sears and his ilk would not think I had bonded well enough with my infants :roll:

Anyway, there's a lot of judgment from both sides.

I agree that the city should be providing information about safe sleeping, for both cribs and co-sleeping. That's not what this campaign does. It doesn't even give the proper information for safe crib sleeping, because a Pack'N'Play is NOT a crib and isn't designed to be used as one. http://thefeministbreeder.com/dear-milw ... not-cribs/

I'm not saying co-sleeping works for everyone. With us, it was the ONLY way that baby #1 would let me get any rest and that I was pretty much a zombie for the months that I resisted it, it worked somewhat for baby #2 until she started to crawl off the bed, and baby #3 made it pretty clear that he wanted nothing more than to sleep alone in his own crib. So yes, moms need to know all safe options.

[Austin]

Sorry, I wasn't really addressing any specific campaign, just the controversy in general.

[candycanehead]

i always put a pillow in my kids bed at around a year old..and they always had blankets..i really think that the new sids guidelines are great, but i do think they are overkill. common sense and vigilance will go very far in keeping kids safe. i even use bumper pads!

all that aside, my little one is in a "sleepsafe bed" due to his disabilities and it is very safe..a great big twin sized crib with padding on all sides.

[pixydust]

Pillows are a big no-no, as are blankets, stuffed animals, and more recently, crib bumpers. Parents are told to put their babies to sleep on their backs, except some preemies, who are supposed to be put on their bellies. I'm not sure why, though- my kids were all full-term.

Babies who are early or sick are often put on their sides to sleep. I don't know all of the reasons, but my 3 kids all had reflux as babies and had to sleep wedged into a sleep-positioner on their sides (it holds babies in whatever position that you put them in) so the spit up/throw up drips out easier.

ETA: My daughter was 5 weeks early and we also had to lift the head of her mattress till she was about 2 months old.

[Mommy22alyns]

:o I hope that's just for pics. My two didn't get a pillow until they moved to a real bed (~19 months).