Are there any Male Feminists here?

[JesusFightClub]

I know a fair few men who call themselves feminists. It is fair to say however they are not always very good at it :(

I disagree however re labels, Doggie. Labels IMO can be super useful. Like for example if someone says "I am a radfem" or "I am a Tea Party supporter" or "I am an anarchist" it's a lot easier to get than a huge rambling statement of beliefs. You then can understand that person better and move on from there.

Likewise with religion. It would be weird if a person couldn't say something like "I'm a Muslim" but instead had to explain Islam in minute detail. ;)

[finleeport]

Well, perhaps Doggie is not much embracing feminism. But I'm curious how can a man be a feminist? I never heard of any man called himself a feminist (or at least any famous people or celebrities) and there is always the terrible stereotype that if a man is a feminist, he's either gay or emasculate or effeminate. That he has no 'manly' dignity to him whatsoever (this has been parodied in a Family Guy episode where Peter is hypnotized to be a feminist).

So how can a man be a feminist? does it contradict his 'masculinity or manliness' or whatever you call it.

I really believe Women and all ethnic races are equal. even in my stories I always want to portray women as strong and freethinking. But how...er...how can I be both a man and feminist and be good at it.

[doggie]

doggie - this is *not* about you, but it is something i want to point out generally..

you [the metaphoric and all inclusive male you] realise that you'd likely never actually know if you had "unwanted" (as opposed to forced) sex, don't you? while it's physically impossible for a man to have penetrative sex without being aroused, it's completely possible for a woman to do so.

I don't think most men realise how fundamentally different this makes men and women's approaches to sexual relations.

anyway - doggie. not about you. just an observation

If a man pays attention he should know if his partner is in the mood. if he does not know they he is a poor partner. Sometimes one person wants sex and the other does not and they work that out. as long as it is known up front and is consensual.

I don't want this about me I just don't want to be attacked.

[deelaem]

Just a quick note that a male has to be physiologically aroused, but may NOT want sex in such a circumstance. (In one of those very sad ironies, male domination gives men the shit end of the stick when it comes to being abused by women).

But, yeah, doggie has some issues surrounding sex. His comments on my "Ask an asexual" thread were... well, so stereotypical I didn't know if I should laugh or groan. It was like he was actually offended by the idea that I'm not interested in sex. (Nor could he seem to distinguish between not being interested and never having had).

Wow, how did I miss that? I just read his replies on your thread, and WOW! People have died and killed for sex? Uh, maybe men have, but it has little to do with sex and a lot to do with territoriality. Those are the who-has-the-bigger-penis fights that men have between themselves.

Did you like how he slipped in, almost as an afterthought, that you might miss out on romance? I 'bout laughed my ass off. I'm sure he was just concerned for your romantic needs. :lol:

[doggie]

As long as labels don't force people into a bad position against their wills.

[deelaem]

Well, perhaps Doggie is not much embracing feminism. But I'm curious how can a man be a feminist? I never heard of any man called himself a feminist (or at least any famous people or celebrities) and there is always the terrible stereotype that if a man is a feminist, he's either gay or emasculate or effeminate. That he has no 'manly' dignity to him whatsoever (this has been parodied in a Family Guy episode where Peter is hypnotized to be a feminist).

So how can a man be a feminist? does it contradict his 'masculinity or manliness' or whatever you call it.

I really believe Women and all ethnic races are equal. even in my stories I always want to portray women as strong and freethinking. But how...er...how can I be both a man and feminist and be good at it.

Sweetie, please tell me you're joking about taking social cues from Family Guy. The guy who created it, Seth McFarlane is on of the biggest, creepiest misogynists around.

A man can be a feminist when he accepts women as being 100% human beings with the exact same rights and privileges as a man. But he has to be secure enough in himself to 1. study feminism, 2. don't ask women to explain it to you, 3. learn to not give a rat's ass about asshole men who would make fun of a man being a feminist.

A famous man who identifies as a feminist is Alan Alda, and he is a highly respected man. One just needs to have the courage of his convictions.

[finleeport]

Sweetie, please tell me you're joking about taking social cues from Family Guy. The guy who created it, Seth McFarlane is on of the biggest, creepiest misogynists around.

A man can be a feminist when he accepts women as being 100% human beings with the exact same rights and privileges as a man. But he has to be secure enough in himself to 1. study feminism, 2. don't ask women to explain it to you, 3. learn to not give a rat's ass about asshole men who would make fun of a man being a feminist.

A famous man who identifies as a feminist is Alan Alda, and he is a highly respected man. One just needs to have the courage of his convictions.

Don't forget about Ira Levin, the man wrote The Stepford Wives during the second wave of Feminism. I forgot about him, and thanks. I'm just a tad bit gullible.

[pomology]

Sweetie, please tell me you're joking about taking social cues from Family Guy. The guy who created it, Seth McFarlane is on of the biggest, creepiest misogynists around.

A man can be a feminist when he accepts women as being 100% human beings with the exact same rights and privileges as a man. But he has to be secure enough in himself to 1. study feminism, 2. don't ask women to explain it to you, 3. learn to not give a rat's ass about asshole men who would make fun of a man being a feminist.

A famous man who identifies as a feminist is Alan Alda, and he is a highly respected man. One just needs to have the courage of his convictions.

Well said, deelaem. I've never understand what the hell people think is so emasculating about feminism, anyway.

I don't know if I've ever heard my father refer to himself as a feminist, but I'd say that he is. And I'm sure he wouldn't find it emasculating to be called a feminist, because, you know, his self-worth isn't tied to being perceived as masculine.

[Guest Anonymous]

Well, perhaps Doggie is not much embracing feminism. But I'm curious how can a man be a feminist? I never heard of any man called himself a feminist (or at least any famous people or celebrities) and there is always the terrible stereotype that if a man is a feminist, he's either gay or emasculate or effeminate. That he has no 'manly' dignity to him whatsoever (this has been parodied in a Family Guy episode where Peter is hypnotized to be a feminist).

So how can a man be a feminist? does it contradict his 'masculinity or manliness' or whatever you call it.

I really believe Women and all ethnic races are equal. even in my stories I always want to portray women as strong and freethinking. But how...er...how can I be both a man and feminist and be good at it.

I give you the fabulous Alan Cumming - actor, singer, writer, director, author.

As for your question, you do that by believing that women are fully equal to men, and by treating them as such.

[doggie]

But, yeah, doggie has some issues surrounding sex. His comments on my "Ask an asexual" thread were... well, so stereotypical I didn't know if I should laugh or groan. It was like he was actually offended by the idea that I'm not interested in sex. (Nor could he seem to distinguish between not being interested and never having had).

because I did not know anything about it I am supposed to know what is the right thing to say? Your post was asking for people to ask questions I did and I learned. I guess I should have already known before I posted. If you read my posts I said I was fine with you as you are. I never attacked you about it or said you should try things to get aroused. You said you rather have a bowl of soup then sex that told me you did not understand how passion drives people. if I was wrong about that I am sorry.

[Terrie]

because I did not know anything about it I am supposed to know what is the right thing to say? Your post was asking for people to ask questions I did and I learned. I guess I should have already known before I posted. If you read my posts I said I was fine with you as you are. I never attacked you about it or said you should try things to get aroused. You said you rather have a bowl of soup then sex that told me you did not understand how passion drives people. if I was wrong about that I am sorry.

Questions traditionally include a question mark. You asked no questions, simply told me how I was wrong about how I viewed sex.

[masagoroll]

Patrick Stewart (best known as Captain Picard):

[doggie]

Questions traditionally include a question mark. You asked no questions, simply told me how I was wrong about how I viewed sex.

Yes I should have wrote it better. I have trouble communicating what I mean and I spend so much time fixing what my hands screw up typing I forget to go over what I write. So I am sorry if I came off wrong. I have a very bad habit of thinking people know what I am talking about when when there is no reason they would have a clue what I am talking about. So I tend to just type basics with no explanation behind it. I have gone back and read post where I don't even know what I was saying.

[jaelh]

Just a quick note that a male has to be physiologically aroused, but may NOT want sex in such a circumstance. (In one of those very sad ironies, male domination gives men the shit end of the stick when it comes to being abused by women).

oh absolutely and undeniably. in most conjugal, heterosexual relationships however i would put it to you that in the majority of situations where one partner did not "want" sex when it took place, the woman was said partner. Not to deny the inverse, but rather to note that the assertion "i've never had unwanted sex" is a fairly meaningless one. Does that make sense?

(there are awful stories of women being aroused while raped - i know a women who was, and it's messed with her head ever since. it's not something i'd wish on anyone, male or female.).

[Boogalou]

Sigh. We really need more feminists of all kinds in the world. I made a comment on facebook that I might be minoring in women's studies and someone (male) made a comment that they had to drop women's studies because there were too many sandwiches to be made and the kitchen had to be cleaned. Ass hole. I need a snappy comeback now.

[doggie]

oh absolutely and undeniably. in most conjugal, heterosexual relationships however i would put it to you that in the majority of situations where one partner did not "want" sex when it took place, the woman was said partner. Not to deny the inverse, but rather to note that the assertion "i've never had unwanted sex" is a fairly meaningless one. Does that make sense?

(there are awful stories of women being aroused while raped - i know a women who was, and it's messed with her head ever since. it's not something i'd wish on anyone, male or female.).

well you are describing the fundy submissive marriage I think. but there are times when one partner is not in the mood and the other is. if the people work it out right it is ok as long as both are happy with it. if there is force involved then it is rape.

[jaelh]

if there is force involved then it is rape.

rape requires [physical] force?

[Terrie]

oh absolutely and undeniably. in most conjugal, heterosexual relationships however i would put it to you that in the majority of situations where one partner did not "want" sex when it took place, the woman was said partner. Not to deny the inverse, but rather to note that the assertion "i've never had unwanted sex" is a fairly meaningless one. Does that make sense?

(there are awful stories of women being aroused while raped - i know a women who was, and it's messed with her head ever since. it's not something i'd wish on anyone, male or female.).

Oh, I totally agree that the majority of cases are men on women, but it's a generalization I'm sensitive to, because I had a male friend who was mentally, physically and sexually abused by his girlfriend. And I agree that "I've never had unwanted sex" is a pretty meaningless one.

[doggie]

rape requires [physical] force?

mental or physical force is force.

[deelaem]

The issue of female consent to sex is a very complex one. Most women, myself included until I was educated, don't think that giving in to sex because your partner is nagging you is a form of sexual assault. How many of us have given into our partners out of guilt, or as a way to avoid a fight, or because we thought it would put them in a good mood, etc., etc. This is sex through coercion, and it's not ok. Even the best of guys know just what to say to increase the chances that their partners will give in to sex. Yes, a woman can say no. But what will the cost to her be if she does? Will she have an angry, whiny, petulant partner to deal with if she takes that stand? Will she be made to feel afraid that if she doesn't "satisfy" him that he will turn to someone else? Given these kinds of factors, how freely given is her consent?

If a man does want to identify as a feminist, he would do well to give considerable thought to what consent really means.

ETA: there does not need to be force for rape to occur. Intimidation and chemicals accomplish the same thing.