Are there any Male Feminists here?

[finleeport]

I need to ask you guys (if any male feminists are here) what can you do when you choose to call yourself a feminist? People, mostly guys are already thinking that I support female supremacy and misandry but its not true. Seriously, are most men out there so incredibly stupid and pompous that they really believe they are the victims? or do they have backfeed to prove that what they're doing is right?

And most importantly, how does being a feminist make you feel as man? I myself am asexual and have no interest in sex on any kind, but where does that leave me on my masculinity? or yours?

[finleeport]

anyone? no male feminists here?

[doggie]

I guess I am. I mean I support woman and everyone to have exactly the same rights as everyone else except where biology is concerned. no one deserved to be treated differently because they don't match some silly idea that what you are is whats best. I have some woman customers I do work for and I treat them the same as my male customers.

There should be no need for feminists because there should be no difference.

I don't think most men in the us under middle age think woman are less unless they are religious. boys and girls are blending together at a young age and that is where it will really make a difference. As they mature things will keep changing. The worst thing that can be done is treat men and woman and other cultures and races as different,

my wife tends to depend on me too much and I want her to be independent. She is blind and it is even harder for her.

[doggie]

anyone? no male feminists here?

give people a chance not to many post this late.

[CanadianHippie]

Since I am guessing your definition of male is related to sex and not gender, all I can say is that I am a feminist who sometimes identifies as male.

[brianh]

Hey, I just delurked to say, yep, I'm male and identify as feminist; I would call myself a gender egalitarian, but that sounds like it descended directly from the nearest ivory tower, so I don't. And yeah, some guys do think they're victims "men's rights activists" (MRAs) have a whole movement about it.

As far as how it makes me feel, I find it's a great shorthand for telling people what I believe. In fact, I find that the "I believe women are equal but I'm not a feminist" crowd is often covering for latent sexism. As far as one's identity, leaving aside the complexities in gender issues, should (say) a white person feel uncomfortable calling themselves anti-racist?

[Effie]

Welcome brianh! :)

This is a great argument:

As far as one's identity, leaving aside the complexities in gender issues, should (say) a white person feel uncomfortable calling themselves anti-racist?

[MerryHappy]

I have a great deal of admiration for men who are willing to say they are feminist without having to qualify it or tack on a bunch of disclaimers.

Welcome Brianh. :)

[debrand]

I need to ask you guys (if any male feminists are here) what can you do when you choose to call yourself a feminist? People, mostly guys are already thinking that I support female supremacy and misandry but its not true. Seriously, are most men out there so incredibly stupid and pompous that they really believe they are the victims? or do they have backfeed to prove that what they're doing is right?

And most importantly, how does being a feminist make you feel as man? I myself am asexual and have no interest in sex on any kind, but where does that leave me on my masculinity? or yours?

I've come across this attitude several times. For some reason, the word, feminist makes some people imagine female overlords eager to castrate men :roll: . It isn't just men either. I've met women who have careers and are independent who shy away from the word, feminism. It angers me. How does giving women the same rights as men hurt anyone?

[DistantStar]

The word has been fairly effectively demonized by people looking at the radical fringes, that's why. This comes up all the time here. In a lot of heads feminist = man-hating lesbians-by-choice (nobody crucify me, I'm not saying I think that!). It's like redefining the word Christian to mean only the extremist fundies and leaving out all the rest. Any movement is going to have a radical fringe, and it's too easy to point at that fringe and say, "They say they're feminists! Feminists are awful!" :roll:

[MamaJunebug]

I've come across this attitude several times. For some reason, the word, feminist makes some people imagine female overlords eager to castrate men :roll: . It isn't just men either. I've met women who have careers and are independent who shy away from the word, feminism. It angers me. How does giving women the same rights as men hurt anyone?

Of course, it doesn't, but some people have allowed themselves to have such a victimized frame of mind that immediately upon being told someone wants opportunities equal to their own, their response is, "Fine! Be equal to me! No special treatment for you!" etc.

My peeve is with women who say, "I'm no feminist, but I think women should have the same right to pursue their careers as men do" or "I'm not a feminist, but women and men should be paid the same for doing the same job."

I heard exactly those two comments from ladies at my new congregation a while ago. Having really nothing to lose, I jumped in with, "I AM a feminist, and I agree with both of you!" I can now say I've seen my two new friends with looks of complete astonishment on their faces. Not bad for only knowing somebody a few weeks!!! :lol:

In response to Distant Star's very insightful post: Yes, and that's why I jump at the chance to ID myself as a feminist. People look at a plump, inoffensive-appearing old lady wearing wedding rings and smiling at her TSU and calling herself a feminist and they have to have some cog-dis against the "all feminism is radical feminism" blather!!!!

[ilovetchotchkes]

My husband is a male feminist :)

[Effie]

My male social work friends are feminists, and so is a male friend from my sociology class. :) Perhaps male feminists are not that rare?

[deelaem]

I guess I am. I mean I support woman and everyone to have exactly the same rights as everyone else except where biology is concerned. no one deserved to be treated differently because they don't match some silly idea that what you are is whats best. I have some woman customers I do work for and I treat them the same as my male customers.

There should be no need for feminists because there should be no difference.

I don't think most men in the us under middle age think woman are less unless they are religious. boys and girls are blending together at a young age and that is where it will really make a difference. As they mature things will keep changing. The worst thing that can be done is treat men and woman and other cultures and races as different,

my wife tends to depend on me too much and I want her to be independent. She is blind and it is even harder for her.

Oh dude, just gotta thank you for the huge laugh! You're a feminist the way Joe Francis is. :lol:

[finleeport]

I've come across this attitude several times. For some reason, the word, feminist makes some people imagine female overlords eager to castrate men :roll: . It isn't just men either. I've met women who have careers and are independent who shy away from the word, feminism. It angers me. How does giving women the same rights as men hurt anyone?

I really don't know, but why is it then when a man calls himself a feminist, why is he seen as either gay or emasculated?

[doggie]

calling your self something like feminist or christian or anything else is labeling yourself something different the same if you call someone else something. how can you be equal if you are different and I think sometimes think you are above others? Us and them the most dangerous words in the world. To be equal you have to be equal. if you think you are more or less then another person you are hurting your cause. Going to the extreme as in radical feminism gives feminism the bad rep and makes others suffer. hate and judging others based on sex is doing exactly what men have done and what woman are trying to get past.

that's just my opinion. I don't like labels they cause problems rather then help.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

In a lot of heads feminist = man-hating lesbians-by-choice (nobody crucify me, I'm not saying I think that!). It's like redefining the word Christian to mean only the extremist fundies and leaving out all the rest. Any movement is going to have a radical fringe, and it's too easy to point at that fringe and say, "They say they're feminists! Feminists are awful!" :roll:

Exactly what my dad did! Wanting to be equal to my husband made me all of sudden a radical liberal feminist.

In the words of DH's pastor, "what's wrong with being a liberal feminist?"

I've met quite a few men who are feminists, but "feminist" has become a bit of a loaded term in our society because of that fringe. It's kind of like how "thongs" has been co-opted to mean skimpy underwear and not flip flops. Or how rainbow has been co-opted to support the GLBTQ movement, and now a few people who love rainbows are afraid of being seen as gay supporters. (Yeah, conservative/fundie people.)

After my dad accused me of being a radical liberal feminist (to try to shame me into obeying him), I now say it with pride, lol. So much for shame.

All the same, though, "gender egalitarian" is probably a better way of publicly saying that we support equal rights, and that we think that forcing people into traditional gender roles is BS. It says what we mean, without the fear of some people misunderstanding the definition of "feminist."

[Visionoyahweh]

I'm a male feminist - because of um, empathy? The realization that women are people, too? Because oppression is wrong? Because enslaving half the human race to the other half is really gonna come back and bite us in the ass (and already has)? Because I like sex, and sexual freedom? There's probably a few zillion more reasons...

[deelaem]

calling your self something like feminist or christian or anything else is labeling yourself something different the same if you call someone else something. how can you be equal if you are different and I think sometimes think you are above others? Us and them the most dangerous words in the world. To be equal you have to be equal. if you think you are more or less then another person you are hurting your cause. Going to the extreme as in radical feminism gives feminism the bad rep and makes others suffer. hate and judging others based on sex is doing exactly what men have done and what woman are trying to get past.

that's just my opinion. I don't like labels they cause problems rather then help.

You gotta help me out here, what the HELL does that sentence mean?

How do I, by fighting loudly for the rights of half the human race, think I'm better than others? I simply don't see how the two things correlate.

And I'm dying for you to explain to me how radical feminism makes others suffer. I don't hate and judge others, I hate and judge the patriarchy. I just get tired of you pretending to be Mr. Wonderful when it's been made clear that how much you sexually objectify women.

[doggie]

You gotta help me out here, what the HELL does that sentence mean?

How do I, by fighting loudly for the rights of half the human race, think I'm better than others? I simply don't see how the two things correlate.

And I'm dying for you to explain to me how radical feminism makes others suffer. I don't hate and judge others, I hate and judge the patriarchy. I just get tired of you pretending to be Mr. Wonderful when it's been made clear that how much you sexually objectify women.

sorry I don't know if I can write the sentence out like I need too.

you can change the government with force but you can't for the most part change people. well you could but the results are less then ideal. If you want people to change you have to get them to want to change so they say we did it that's real change. Being nasty and judgmental and hateful does not make people change as we see fundies to do.

as far as the whole sex thing you have no clue. yes I enjoy sex and love thinking about woman. but I have never used a woman never had unwanted sex never made a catcall never oogled a woman never treated one like a porn star.

the problem is you seem to hate sex and sex seems to offend you. I think you want men never to see a woman as a sexual creature unless she gives the ok to do so. sorry but that will never happen and as long as a man does not treat a woman as a sexual object what is the problem?

[Austin]

calling your self something like feminist or christian or anything else is labeling yourself something different the same if you call someone else something. how can you be equal if you are different and I think sometimes think you are above others? Us and them the most dangerous words in the world. To be equal you have to be equal. if you think you are more or less then another person you are hurting your cause. Going to the extreme as in radical feminism gives feminism the bad rep and makes others suffer. hate and judging others based on sex is doing exactly what men have done and what woman are trying to get past.

that's just my opinion. I don't like labels they cause problems rather then help.

Let's get real, doggie, we all have labels. I am a woman, a spouse, a mother, a friend, a professional, a liberal, a feminist, among many other things.

I'm not sure what you mean when you state this:

how can you be equal if you are different and I think sometimes you are above others?

Identifying as one thing or another is in no way a mutually exclusive exercise. It doesn't have anything to do with believing you're above others. The reality is that there is an "us" and "them". Free Jinger wouldn't exist if the majority of us didn't believe that. Think about it.

Let's talk about what the word feminist means. To me, it is the rather radical (relative to recorded history/patriarchy) belief that women are fully human and fully equal. That's it. However, it's not the definition that most people have a problem with; it's that when women begin to get in touch with that reality, and they actually demand equal rights (how dare they?) and equal treatment. When they make those demands, they make some people uncomfortable, thus the label "radical feminist".

I refuse to accept that the word "feminist" is something for women (or men) to shy away from. I fully embrace it, and I don't care what it conjures up in some people's minds. If it conjures up something negative, that says something about that person, not about me. So I embrace "feminist", just as I embrace the word "liberal". Some may intend it as an insult when they throw it at me, but I'm happy to pick it up and pin it on my shirt.

There seems to be confusion with some about what constitutes sexism in our society. There's really a simple test for that. If the situation in question was reversed, would the same be true of a man, and if the answer is "no", then there's sexism in play.

So not identifying as feminists is a luxury that we who are simply do not have. It would be great if there was nothing to overcome, such as centuries of oppression of women (the patriarchy) and other groups. But that's not the way it is. We have to live in the reality that centuries of patriarchy have left us with.

There is a long way to go in this country. One of our presidential candidates has pulled in more in campaign donations since credible allegations of sexual harassment surfaced (about 10 days ago) than he had collected in the previous several months. The same candidate, in a debate last night, referred to a former speaker of the house, as a "princess". Regarding the latter, besides it being mentioned a few times on CNN, do you hear an outcry? Have his political party or allies or even rivals spoken out and addressed how disgusting that is? Have they called for him to exit the race and hang his head? No.

To be a feminist, you have to identify as one (including the label). If you are unwilling to do that, you are not a feminist (see above for definition).

[deelaem]

sorry I don't know if I can write the sentence out like I need too.

you can change the government with force but you can't for the most part change people. well you could but the results are less then ideal. If you want people to change you have to get them to want to change so they say we did it that's real change. Being nasty and judgmental and hateful does not make people change as we see fundies to do.

as far as the whole sex thing you have no clue. yes I enjoy sex and love thinking about woman. but I have never used a woman never had unwanted sex never made a catcall never oogled a woman never treated one like a porn star.

the problem is you seem to hate sex and sex seems to offend you. I think you want men never to see a woman as a sexual creature unless she gives the ok to do so. sorry but that will never happen and as long as a man does not treat a woman as a sexual object what is the problem?

First of all, way to not answer my questions.

I don't hate sex. You also know nothing about me, so don't make that assumption. What I do hate is sexism. And you calling Courtney Stodden slutty, trampy, etc. is sexism, so don't even try to get out of that. You also seem to be making the typical excuse of "oh, us poor men can't help it, we just think women are soooo sexy". Well, yes you can help it. You can choose to put that aside and relate to a woman as a human being.

I really don't give a crap whether or not you think about women and sex, it frankly creeps me out anyway. But given your track record, don't go calling yourself a feminist because you really don't even know what that is.

[jaelh]

but I have never used a woman never had unwanted sex

doggie - this is *not* about you, but it is something i want to point out generally..

you [the metaphoric and all inclusive male you] realise that you'd likely never actually know if you had "unwanted" (as opposed to forced) sex, don't you? while it's physically impossible for a man to have penetrative sex without being aroused, it's completely possible for a woman to do so.

I don't think most men realise how fundamentally different this makes men and women's approaches to sexual relations.

anyway - doggie. not about you. just an observation

[deelaem]

Austin, you said it so much better! ^5!

[Terrie]

you [the metaphoric and all inclusive male you] realise that you'd likely never actually know if you had "unwanted" (as opposed to forced) sex, don't you? while it's physically impossible for a man to have penetrative sex without being aroused, it's completely possible for a woman to do so.

Just a quick note that a male has to be physiologically aroused, but may NOT want sex in such a circumstance. (In one of those very sad ironies, male domination gives men the shit end of the stick when it comes to being abused by women).

But, yeah, doggie has some issues surrounding sex. His comments on my "Ask an asexual" thread were... well, so stereotypical I didn't know if I should laugh or groan. It was like he was actually offended by the idea that I'm not interested in sex. (Nor could he seem to distinguish between not being interested and never having had).