List your favorite wackadoodle religion or cult!

[maybeizfundie]

I've read a book by Eberhard Arnold's wife, I can't remember what it was called now. It sounded idyllic. When you talk about the group dynamics and the manipulation, what do you mean? The whole crisis, freakout, reunification cycle, how would that play out? What made your parents finally leave?

Part of the crazy is that in many ways it *is* idyllic. Or feels that way.

Trying to figure out how to explain the dynamics. I observed some of it, but wasn't privvy to the members meetings, so some I know from my parents. The official line is that all decisions are made "in unity", and everyone votes with complete equality. It's amazing how many times there was not a single "no", among hundreds of members, though. :roll: Public shaming and berating was not uncommon, and it happened at a few meetings where middle school children and teens were present. I remember three occasions, and they terrified me. My parents saw more, and that was certainly one part of the journey out.

A "crisis" could be a political event, or young people "misbehaving" (girls shaving their legs or color coordinating their clothes in "vanity" or some college students studying the Bible without asking permission), or some new blow-up with an ex-member. Pretty much anything. Then would follow intense, late-night members meetings, various people being called out or tattled on and people confessing, church discipline applied (which consisted of ostracism at best, being kicked out at worst), new resolutions (no more colored kerchiefs! we need to get back to our roots! We're too lazy, communal exercise for all! We're too comfortable, no more noon meals! Let's go visit Castro and be more revolutionary!!! etc etc). And then "Whew! Problem solved! Unity achieved! All is well! We all love each other!"

As for leaving, I came home from school one day to find our apartment packed and my parents weeping. They were kicked out of membership, but I think they would ultimately have left anyway. They just weren't good enough at keeping their mouths shut, and had been questioning several issues since they joined. After having given *everything* they owned to the commune and 5 years of professional service for no pay, they were chucked out with several kids, an ancient junker of a car, $300 and the promise of housing (which turned out to be pest infested and unliveable). It's only because of the nature of my parent's work and the kindness of a complete stranger that we landed in liveable housing and my dad got a job within a week or so. And again, as awful as that sounds, we were much better off than others who left or got kicked out.

[maybeizfundie]

And I am a fan of the wood toys, still. My kids have some, and they are indestructible.

[yetanothermeg]

Wow maybeizfundie, that's intense. I wish I could write more but I have to take my kid to school. That girls wanting to coordinate their clothing was seen as misbehaving is just insane.

[Terrie]

Intentional communities in general fascinate me. I don't believe they can succeed on more than a small scale, though. Scientology is one that fascinates me, in a train wreck sort of way. Street preachers like Brother Jed crack me up, because they are so over the top and extreme. I remember a friend (who was a virgin) being called a slut because she was wearing pants, while the other friend next to her (who was, um, not picky in her taste) was ignored because she was wearing a skirt. Which always baffled me, because it seems like wearing a skirt makes sex easier.

[VeraAnne]

My inlaws grew up UPC and my FIL's family is still in the church. I find it all very interesting. UPCers are very concerned with standards but not so much patriarchy or quiverful.

[Sunnichick31]

Anyone else ever heard of The Church Universal and Triumphant (aka CUT). The headquarters are in my area and we have a ton of members here. From what I've heard, they have some pretty weird practices, like coffee enimas, building bunkers for the end of the world, things like that.

[Eponine]

I've wanted to go in for a personality assessment, or whatever they call it, just to see what they do, what their tactics are, but then I think, what if they hypnotize me right there and I find myself giving them my credit card.

My friend and I did this on a whim once when we were visiting London - we acted like we were possibly interested in joining and did a super long personality assessment. It was maybe like 300 or 400 questions with I think 5 choices of answers that were usually to the effect of "I agree very strongly with this statement" to "I disagree very strongly with this statement." There were a bunch of areas of your personality that they would score and give you a "level" (I think that's what it was called) from maybe 1-10, 1 being the lowest, and 10 what you should strive for. I scored okay on most of the areas but an interesting one was the family or children or whatever area: because I don't want to have children I automatically scored a one (or whatever is the lowest). They gave us a chart explaining each of the levels and I was very interested to see that I, someone who likes children fine, works as an au pair actually, but just does not want any children, was rated lower in this category than child rapists/molesters. Why? Because they actually show some interest in children but I supposedly don't. So I guess to improve myself to the next level they think I should take up child pornography as a hobby?

Anyway, we couldn't get any counseling or go to the next step or whatever without paying so we just took the information pamphlets and left. For the life of me I was not able to find them last time I moved but even those free pamphlets were pretty crazy.

[Guest Anonymous]

Scientology makes me scratch my head. I just don't get it. And why so many high profile celebs are part of it?

[oscar]

Intentional communities in general fascinate me. I don't believe they can succeed on more than a small scale, though. Scientology is one that fascinates me, in a train wreck sort of way. Street preachers like Brother Jed crack me up, because they are so over the top and extreme. I remember a friend (who was a virgin) being called a slut because she was wearing pants, while the other friend next to her (who was, um, not picky in her taste) was ignored because she was wearing a skirt. Which always baffled me, because it seems like wearing a skirt makes sex easier.

One of my brother's friends, who is totally badass, was walking by a street preacher at their university who happened to comment on her long skirt and modest top as an example of what virtuous women should be wearing. So she turned around, pulled up her skirt and booty clapped her naked ass at him. My brother says it was one of the most amazing things he'd ever seen.

Unfortunately, this event slightly predated the widespread availability of smartphones with video, or else I'm sure it would be all over the internet. It was mentioned on Reddit at least twice, but I can't seem to find it now.

[VeraAnne]

The prochild thing shocks me a bit because there are many former scientologists who allege that they were forced to have abortions do that they could continue as high level missionaries.

[Triplet3]

My friend and I did this on a whim once when we were visiting London - we acted like we were possibly interested in joining and did a super long personality assessment. It was maybe like 300 or 400 questions with I think 5 choices of answers that were usually to the effect of "I agree very strongly with this statement" to "I disagree very strongly with this statement." There were a bunch of areas of your personality that they would score and give you a "level" (I think that's what it was called) from maybe 1-10, 1 being the lowest, and 10 what you should strive for. I scored okay on most of the areas but an interesting one was the family or children or whatever area: because I don't want to have children I automatically scored a one (or whatever is the lowest). They gave us a chart explaining each of the levels and I was very interested to see that I, someone who likes children fine, works as an au pair actually, but just does not want any children, was rated lower in this category than child rapists/molesters. Why? Because they actually show some interest in children but I supposedly don't. So I guess to improve myself to the next level they think I should take up child pornography as a hobby?

Anyway, we couldn't get any counseling or go to the next step or whatever without paying so we just took the information pamphlets and left. For the life of me I was not able to find them last time I moved but even those free pamphlets were pretty crazy.

There's a Scientology centre on Tottenham Court Road, near UCL. My mum, who did a degree in Psychology at UCL in the late 1970s, went in once while a student and tried the personality test purely out of interest. She ended up having an argument with one of the people there about how incredibly unscientific the personality test was, and basically it was 'suggested' that she left. I did my MA at UCL a couple of years ago, and the Scientology centre was still there. I never plucked up the courage to go in, though.

[anniebgood]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%22I_AM%22_Activity

The I Am movement. My dad's cousin and her family were all involved with these people. It was one of the first Ascended Master cults and preceded several more well known movements like Church Triumphant and Universal.

They had a large picture of Christ with the Sacred Heart, were vegetarians and gave a lot of money to the church. I am sure that my dad's cousin was more into it than her husband and kids. They didn't follow their moms footsteps.

[Eponine]

There's a Scientology centre on Tottenham Court Road, near UCL. My mum, who did a degree in Psychology at UCL in the late 1970s, went in once and tried the personality test purely out of interest. She ended up having an argument with one of the people there about how incredibly unscientific the personality test was, and basically it was 'suggested' that she left. I did my MA at UCL a couple of years ago, and the Scientology centre was still there. I never plucked up the courage to go in, though.

That's probably where I was, although I don't remember offhand. This was five or six years ago and we were kind of wandering aimlessly when we came across the center. The test is really not scientific at all; it reminded me of a poor man's version of those personality tests you take in high school, like the Myers-Briggs or whatever. A lot of the questions were just about general feelings or opinions that could easily fluctuate from one day to another. However I don't think they really set much store by those tests once you join - it seemed like kind of a baseline to see how Scientology could potentially improve your life - get you from lower levels to higher ones. Then if you pay them after they tell you exactly in what ways your life is fucked up and your perspective is skewed, they'll help you.

VeraAnne - I also wouldn't be surprised if some Scientologists were forced into abortions. From what I understand the organization is much more into money than faith, so if missionaries could make more money for it without children I'm sure they'd put a lot of pressure on them.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

Wasn't Mel Gibson involved in some sort of Catholic splinter group/cult?

There are some of those. I love John Michael Talbot's music, but the commune thing that he is involved with makes me cringe, though I don't have a solid reason for that.

I love JMT's music too, but my husband and I have kind of a weird feeling about their hermitage too. Perhaps it's because there's children in the hermitage that are being raised by their hermit parents. Most hermitages are full of consenting adults, but I dunno, when you bring children into the question, it becomes problematic.

He also gets a little political on FB and that concerns me. I've called him out on that a couple of times.

No wonder the Franciscans at my church aren't terribly fond of JMT.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

I've had a morbid fascination with FLDS...mostly with the men and women who manage to escape. I don't remember the name of the cults, but there was one book where it was some sort of Eastern Religions cult where the main cult leader wrote a lot of books about "Happiness-Light-Joy" and all the books were full of buzzwords haphazardly linked together. This family joined, and only the girl managed to break away somehow, even after she was nearly elevated to a cult-leader like status.

Also, there was another cult book I read that is absolutely horrifying. It's something like Flirty Fishing for Jesus, where the women would sleep with random men as a way of getting more people "saved" by getting them to join the cult. Everyone had to show "love" by having sex with them, even with the little kids. They even encouraged the kids to have sex with each other. These three sisters managed to escape somehow, and wrote about that cult.

I'm great with remembering stories, but I suck at remembering specifics....mostly I browse the cult section for good memoirs.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

Oh, don't forget the Jehovah's Witnesses. It's especially freaky because of how many people get suckered into it thinking it's something akin to Seventh Day Adventists. Christian Scientists are also really scary.

[MaroonMandy]

I'm also fascinated by the FLDS. When my boyfriend was working on the other side of Texas, I used to make the 10 hour trek to see him about once a month. I had to drive right past the turn-off for Eldorado and it took everything I had not to venture into town and see if I could see any of the church members or make my way out to the ranch. After which I probably never would have been heard from again...

[MonkeyMomma]

Tammy Faye became a personal favorite after "The Eyes of Tammy Faye" documentary, and her fabulous turn on Surreal Life with Ron Jeremy and Vanilla Ice.

Same here! I also just read Fall to Grace by her son, Jay Bakker, which also gave me a whole new level of respect for her.

[emmiedahl]

I am really interested in Black Hebrew Israelites. I don't really understand a lot about why they believe what they do, or how the movement was started, but they are definitely a little whackadoodle.

[ADoyle90815]

I'm another one who is fascinated by the FLDS, especially with those who escaped the cult either on their own, or by being kicked out as one of the Lost Boys. The other polygamist cults are interesting as well, especially the ones that try to blend in with mainstream Mormon society.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

I am really interested in Black Hebrew Israelites. I don't really understand a lot about why they believe what they do, or how the movement was started, but they are definitely a little whackadoodle.

They often preach in the Loop in Chicago. Usually by the main library in that little plaza/park there. I had to look them up on Wikipedia when I got home, and yeah, they're nucking futs. I haven't seen them in a while since I'm rarely in the Loop during the day anymore.

[Terrie]

Also, there was another cult book I read that is absolutely horrifying. It's something like Flirty Fishing for Jesus, where the women would sleep with random men as a way of getting more people "saved" by getting them to join the cult. Everyone had to show "love" by having sex with them, even with the little kids. They even encouraged the kids to have sex with each other. These three sisters managed to escape somehow, and wrote about that cult.

The Children of God, now called Family International.

[luckylibrarian]

I'm really fascinated with fringe polygamist groups like the LeBarons and the Singer/Swapp clan. The LeBarons are like a Mormon mafia, and I was shocked to learn the killing of people on Ervil LeBaron's hitlist continues even though he has been dead for thirty years. The LeBarons also ran afoul of one of Mexican drug cartels in recent years, and several people were kidnapped and killed.

[CanticleoftheTurning]

The Children of God, now called Family International.

Thank you!! Now if I can just remember what that other cult was...

[MissNomer]

This group had a natural foods restaurant in my city. I went there and found a pamphlet about "How to Join Our Movement." It was really spiritual connect back to earth commune type Christianity? I don't know I was kinda fascinated by it. The people also used to have an interesting sense of dress. The women wore long skirts or really baggy pants with headcoverings, they also had long hair. The men just looked like hippies. Well the food was good.

This same group also had a natural foods restaurant in the city I grew up in, and a whole bunch of them lived in a commune somewhere in the town. I used to eat at the restaurant a lot as a teenager because the food was really good (they had the best smoothies) and it was just a short walk from my high school. One of the guys who worked there was particularly friendly every time I came in. One day he asked how I was doing and I guess I said something about being tired or stressed out for some reason, and he said that if I ever wanted to spend some time talking with him or some of his friends about things I would be very welcome. It sounds like a nice offer, but something about the way he said it made me feel uncomfortable and I never ate there much after that. It wasn't until later that I learned that that group was considered cult-like.