Williamsburg Bus Makes Women Sit in the Back

[somewhereinbetween]

Anyone heard of this? Apparently, the B110 bus (which drives through Hasidic communities in Brooklyn) has been asking women to sit in the back. I haven't seen it first hand, whenever I go to Williamsburg I usually take the subway and then walk. A friend who takes this bus says she has seen the signs, but never been asked to move by a driver.

http://gothamist.com/2011/10/19/women_r ... brookl.php

[FemaleScientist]

Um... WTF. This is Rosa Parks all over again. And we're in, what, the 21st century? :? That's all I have to say about this.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

Failed Messiah has a post on it too.

In Israel it's a fairly common thing on some routes, there they are known as "Mehadrin" (basically "extra strictly kosher") lines. The monopoly bus company (Egged) designates some routes like that.

Wikipedia has some info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egged

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mehadrin_bus_lines

When this first started up there was quite a bit of discussion about it, some have said "the people who want segregation should start their own line" but the monopoly company won't allow.

That SAID, in other parts of the fundie Jewish world there have been similarly segregated PRIVATE bus services for quite a while (think charter buses from one population center to another) but this NYC one is a regular bus line, even if run by a franchisee (the signs are the same and all that) so yeah it's an issue.

Anyway if you look up "mehadrin lines" or "mehadrin bus" you can find lots of the controversy.

[keen23]

This is probably something about how whatever a menstruating woman sits upon becomes unclean right? I vaguely remember this from "The Year of Living Bibically" where the author's wife got frustrated with him and sat on everything.

[gardenvarietycitizen]

This is probably something about how whatever a menstruating woman sits upon becomes unclean right? I vaguely remember this from "The Year of Living Bibically" where the author's wife got frustrated with him and sat on everything.

The rationale I see given most often is that men can't pray if they are sitting where they can see women (it's why synagogues have gender-segregated seating) and men need to use every moment of their time to pray and/or read prayerbooks, so they want the women sitting only behind them - hence, segregated bus, women always at the back. The "dividing line" such as it is is free to move, as long as at any given time all the men are sitting in front of the women. Sometimes in the middle there will be some seats where husband and wife couples will sit together.

YMMV, huge chunk of salt, etc, but most of the arguments where it comes up, that's the reason given.

[NurseNell]

I read this and thought Williamsburg, VA, and thought what in the world. OK, in Brooklyn makes a little more sense. It's still wrong.

[terranova]

How can they possibly enforce this? If a woman wants to sit at the front, can they throw her off? I'm not up to scratch on American law but here it is illegal to refuse someone transport on a public vehicle based on gender (unless they're unfit to travel).

[emmiedahl]

They cannot enforce that, and I would refuse to move. Is this a public bus? I don't care what they do in their own ventures, but the government will not pay to make me a second class citizen. Cover your eyes when you pray like a good Jew.

[Confused_by_religion]

...and AGAIN women are asked (and not even very nicely) to take responsibility for an alleged male problem. If you can't pray when I'm around, don't look at me and FOCUS on your prayer! Ye Gods! :doh:

[gardenvarietycitizen]

It's a privately owned bus with a public franchise, and yes, they are in violation of their franchise agreement, which is why this is making the news. If they gave up the franchise and made it a fully private bus service (so only their own group members ride it) no one would legally care, just as they currently don't care about all the segregated private charter buses out there now.

But running as a public bus in the city (i.e., having that franchise) they can't legally discriminate.

[Spider Burps]

Yesterday I was on a packed standing room only bus in Queens and was squashed between two Yarmulke-wearing high school boys; we were so close I almost considered taking a pregnancy test when I got home. :lol: I wonder what the B110 bus line would have to say about THAT.

I'm glad the DOT sent them a letter demanding their complaint records. I only hope that the women who were told to move thought to make a formal complaint with the bus company!

[let-them-eat-cake]

What. The. Heck.

Do we need to get a group together there and have males ride in the back and women in the front?

Really?

[Eponine]

Interesting! I've never taken the bus to/in Williamsburg but this makes me want to next time I go back (I moved abroad this summer) just to investigate. I wonder if this company runs buses in any other Orthodox or Hasidic areas of Brooklyn, like Crown Heights or something?

Also, again, I've never taken this bus so I don't know if it gets so super crowded as other transportation does but yeah - what do they do on those rides where everyone is completely jam-packed?

This is really bizarre.

[Childless]

What the hell? That makes want to go to NYC and sit my ass in the front seat and ride the bus all day long.

[Rachel333]

This is just ridiculous. They're even worse than "our" fundies. It is absolutely pathetic that they think that just the sight of a woman will distract them. They also have no right to do this, since it's not a private bus.

[Spider Burps]

Soo... I'm really close to NYC and go into the city fairly often. Any other FJites up for a B110 sit in?! :D

[Koala]

What the hell? That makes want to go to NYC and sit my ass in the front seat and ride the bus all day long.

That's exactly what I was thinking :whistle:

[NurseNell]

Soo... I'm really close to NYC and go into the city fairly often. Any other FJites up for a B110 sit in?! :D

Do it!

[ilovetchotchkes]

Do it!

This snarky reform Jew wants in too!

My Orthodox friend was telling me about the ones in Israel, she said its illegal there but it keeps happening.

[ladypuglover]

That's exactly what I was thinking :whistle:

Count me in on that idea. :twisted:

[hoipolloi]

Here's an account of pretty egregious attack on an Israeli bus: http://www.haaretz.com/woman-beaten-on- ... t-1.207251. Favorite quote (from victim): "I was fighting back and kicked one of the men in his privates. I will never forget the look on his face."

Unfortunately, it doesn't sound like things are getting better: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340 ... 21,00.html

Money quote from the 80-year-old woman whose commentary this is:

We are currently experiencing the revival of radical, zealous rabbis who seek to elicit power. They challenge the government and Knesset, brainwash their students and present themselves as an alternative: The rule of the Torah. This radicalization is fed by money, political power and the weakness of ministers and Knesset members who seek to curry favor with the religious public. This is not a new phenomenon. It started when politicians began to make pilgrimages to rabbis.

Sound familiar?

[Spider Burps]

Just found this article on the Gothamist, too. Man, Williamsburg sounds like a bitchin' place to live if you're a woman!

http://gothamist.com/2011/10/07/yiddish ... to_mak.php

Also... http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/34 ... 10_bk.html <--the modesty police!!!!

[somewhereinbetween]

Just found this article on the Gothamist, too. Man, Williamsburg sounds like a bitchin' place to live if you're a woman!

http://gothamist.com/2011/10/07/yiddish ... to_mak.php

Also... http://www.brooklynpaper.com/stories/34 ... 10_bk.html <--the modesty police!!!!

It's a pretty hilarious place since it's home to fundies and hipsters forced to coexist

[Lainey]

Count me in on that idea. :twisted:

Me too! And if anyone tells me to move because only men are allowed to ride in the front, I want to say, "I am a man," with a totally straight face. Then what? Are they gonna check? :lol:

[Shirley MacLaine]

Just found this article on the Gothamist, too. Man, Williamsburg sounds like a bitchin' place to live if you're a woman!

Ahahaha, nah! Just for people who hate beards (the thing hipsters and orthodox Jews have in common). Although once I was called a name by an Orthodox man in line at the bank =\