M is for Mama 16

[JermajestyDuggar]

Someone is trying to backpeddle. I bet some of her humpers pointed out she was putting homeschool vs public school in previous posts:

[anachronistic]

The assumptions that home school parents make of parents who send their kids to school reminds me of the assumptions that people who work make of those of us who don't work, in my case because of my disabilities. I am ridiculously busy, even if a lot of that busy is dealing with medical stuff and /or resting from the exertion of doing other stuff. But I volunteer, I write, I go to the Y, I go to support groups, I organize, I spend…… OK I almost certainly spend quite a bit more time than the average non disabled person does in the bathroom on a daily basis but that's due to my particular combination of conditions.  My life is very ordinary, I am not sipping mimosas poolside while collecting a check each month.

[JermajestyDuggar]

17 minutes ago, anachronistic said:

The assumptions that home school parents make of parents who send their kids to school reminds me of the assumptions that people who work make of those of us who don't work, in my case because of my disabilities. I am ridiculously busy, even if a lot of that busy is dealing with medical stuff and /or resting from the exertion of doing other stuff. But I volunteer, I write, I go to the Y, I go to support groups, I organize, I spend…… OK I almost certainly spend quite a bit more time than the average non disabled person does in the bathroom on a daily basis but that's due to my particular combination of conditions.  My life is very ordinary, I am not sipping mimosas poolside while collecting a check each month.

Sometimes I think these assumptions from working people are rooted in our extreme work work work busy busy busy hustle culture in the US. It’s like people wear their extremely busy schedules as a badge if honor. Sometimes I hear people talking about leaving home at 6:30am and not getting home until 9pm because of work, activities, commute, meetings, appointments kept them running all day long. And it’s almost like they are bragging. But I just think to myself, “that would make me miserable.” There are definitely busier times in our lives. And I don’t particularly enjoy them. But thankfully they aren’t the norm. I try not to over schedule us as a family. 

[Ozlsn]

On 8/16/2023 at 10:42 AM, SassyPants said:

In the last month, 2 mommy bloggers that I occasionally check in on have announced that they have pulled their kids out of school and are virtual or homeschooling. I swear it’s so they can have those kids available for greater content po$$ibliitie$ and opportunitie$. 

I just finished reading "We were a family once" by Roxanna Asgarian which covers the murder-suicide of the Hart parents and their six adopted children, who were all pulled out of school at least partly so they could keep up the pretence of a wonderful life. Most of the book is about the birth families and the Texas CPS adoption system, but the book is making me side eye the hell out of Insta perfect home-schooling families.

On 8/17/2023 at 4:44 AM, SassyPants said:

Most of these families are homeschooling as a default because their family size prevents them from using brick and mortar schools. 

And this effectively disadvantages their children. I don't know why school schedules should make it so difficult to actually send your kids to school (I do admittedly come from a different schooling system, but if you've got 5 kids at elementary, 5 at middle and 5 at high school that's three schedules? Actually even writing that and assuming another 5 kids at home is giving me anxiety, heh) but if there's provided transport to get them to/from school and you have an actual system to get lunches made, bags organised and out the door it should be feasible. 

On 8/17/2023 at 9:03 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

You know what issue you would think is bipartisan and everyone can agree on? Child marriage. Yet republicans are always the ones against raising the age of marriage in each state to 18. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a democrat speaking against raising the marriage age to 18. It’s usually religious republicans that push for it to stay under 18. And they pretend like they are the party trying to protect children. Funny.

They're against it when they think it's non-Christian religions, but surprisingly silent otherwise. I still can't believe it's legal in some states, even with parental permission. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

9 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

I just finished reading "We were a family once" by Roxanna Asgarian which covers the murder-suicide of the Hart parents and their six adopted children, who were all pulled out of school at least partly so they could keep up the pretence of a wonderful life. Most of the book is about the birth families and the Texas CPS adoption system, but the book is making me side eye the hell out of Insta perfect home-schooling families.

And this effectively disadvantages their children. I don't know why school schedules should make it so difficult to actually send your kids to school (I do admittedly come from a different schooling system, but if you've got 5 kids at elementary, 5 at middle and 5 at high school that's three schedules? Actually even writing that and assuming another 5 kids at home is giving me anxiety, heh) but if there's provided transport to get them to/from school and you have an actual system to get lunches made, bags organised and out the door it should be feasible. 

They're against it when they think it's non-Christian religions, but surprisingly silent otherwise. I still can't believe it's legal in some states, even with parental permission. 

The whole parental permission thing is bullshit because much of the time, it’s the parents pushing their child to get married underage because someone is pregnant. The parents are often the ones thinking completely illogically in the situation. 

[Zebedee]

On 8/17/2023 at 1:03 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

You know what issue you would think is bipartisan and everyone can agree on? Child marriage.

You would think so, but then again, I would have though that feeding hungry children would be a bipartisan issue too. I mean, Jesus didn't say anything about ages of consent, but he sure as hell said something about feeding the hungry. I suppose these days, Jesus is too woke, so all that stuff, and the not hoarding wealth on earth is just pinko commie socialist wokeness.

[JermajestyDuggar]

16 minutes ago, Zebedee said:

You would think so, but then again, I would have though that feeding hungry children would be a bipartisan issue too. I mean, Jesus didn't say anything about ages of consent, but he sure as hell said something about feeding the hungry. I suppose these days, Jesus is too woke, so all that stuff, and the not hoarding wealth on earth is just pinko commie socialist wokeness.

Just this year, a fundie we’ve talked about on FJ allowed her underage child to marry another underage child due to pregnancy. The kids were 16 when they got pregnant and wanted to marry right away. Most parents would say, nope. You can wait until you are a legal adult to get married. But these fundie parents agreed after the kids jumped through a few hoops. It’s pointless for these children to marry. Just let them live together and raise the baby for awhile. And then when they are 18, they can decide if they want to marry or not. I also want to point out that if these fundies had taught their children about birth control, condoms, and comprehensive sex Ed, they probably wouldn’t be in this situation. But we know fundies hate teaching kids about condoms! 
 

https://raisingarrows.net/large-family-homeschool-life-week-6-2023/

[JermajestyDuggar]

She’s the one who started this by putting homeschool against public school! And now she’s acting like she’s better than everyone in her comment section. She loves this. She loves feeling above others. All while pretending to be impartial. 🙄

[Pleiades_06]

14 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Just this year, a fundie we’ve talked about on FJ allowed her underage child to marry another underage child due to pregnancy. The kids were 16 when they got pregnant and wanted to marry right away. Most parents would say, nope. You can wait until you are a legal adult to get married. But these fundie parents agreed after the kids jumped through a few hoops. It’s pointless for these children to marry. Just let them live together and raise the baby for awhile. And then when they are 18, they can decide if they want to marry or not. I also want to point out that if these fundies had taught their children about birth control, condoms, and comprehensive sex Ed, they probably wouldn’t be in this situation. But we know fundies hate teaching kids about condoms! 
 

https://raisingarrows.net/large-family-homeschool-life-week-6-2023/

Omg. Thank you for that rabbit hole. Her website looks all shiny on the outside (they wear jeans! She has international recipes! a daughter is in college!). However,she’s actually using a „science“ text that  was written in the early 20th century by an opponent to Darwin. Her „science“ curriculum is essentially 120 years old.

Edited August 20, 2023 by Pleiades_06

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Obviously she wasn't teaching her son basic biology.

She said her son and his bride were setting up housekeeping in an upstairs bedroom in her house.  That's not housekeeping. That's living with your parents because you're 17 and can't afford to support your teen-age wife and child. That's probably sleeping in your old bedroom.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I can’t help but see this happening at some point to Braggie. It really wouldn’t surprise me if one of the boys end up getting a girl pregnant when he’s 16/17/18 and having to get married immediately. But then they will move in with the girl’s parents even though Braggie has plenty of extra space for them because Braggie is just so insufferable to live with. 

[FilleMondaine]

3 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I can’t help but see this happening at some point to Braggie. It really wouldn’t surprise me if one of the boys end up getting a girl pregnant when he’s 16/17/18 and having to get married immediately. But then they will move in with the girl’s parents even though Braggie has plenty of extra space for them because Braggie is just so insufferable to live with. 

You know, I read about teenagers in Scientology who purposefully got pregnant as a means of escape--and it worked! And honestly, I imagine one of Braggie's boys thinking to himself, "Just a single baby, easy street!" I can imagine that even a teenage mom has less drama than fully-grown Braggie, too!

Example #1386 Reasons why cults are bad: Teenage pregnancy is a valid solution!

[JermajestyDuggar]

Karissa Collins just got Braggie’s book in the mail and opened the box. There was other stuff besides the book in it. Like a bracelet and maybe a sticker or something. I’ll be honest here, if you can’t just send your book out and that’s good enough, it makes me think your book probably isn’t very good. People want to feel like they got their money’s worth. I doubt people would feel that way with Braggie’s short book that is probably just one long social media post in book form. She had to add to it. 

[marmalade]

54 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Karissa Collins just got Braggie’s book in the mail and opened the box. There was other stuff besides the book in it. Like a bracelet and maybe a sticker or something. I’ll be honest here, if you can’t just send your book out and that’s good enough, it makes me think your book probably isn’t very good. People want to feel like they got their money’s worth. I doubt people would feel that way with Braggie’s short book that is probably just one long social media post in book form. She had to add to it. 

I think Karissa got an influencer's special. I can guarantee that I wouldn't get a thank you card or a bracelet with my book. 🙄

[GreenBeans]

On 8/19/2023 at 2:54 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Just this year, a fundie we’ve talked about on FJ allowed her underage child to marry another underage child due to pregnancy. The kids were 16 when they got pregnant and wanted to marry right away. Most parents would say, nope. You can wait until you are a legal adult to get married. But these fundie parents agreed after the kids jumped through a few hoops. It’s pointless for these children to marry. Just let them live together and raise the baby for awhile. And then when they are 18, they can decide if they want to marry or not. I also want to point out that if these fundies had taught their children about birth control, condoms, and comprehensive sex Ed, they probably wouldn’t be in this situation. But we know fundies hate teaching kids about condoms! 
 

https://raisingarrows.net/large-family-homeschool-life-week-6-2023/

Poor kids!

“The first thing we addressed was their heart of repentance, and from there, we moved forward.”

An unplanned pregnancy is always tough, but having parents that make you feel extra guilty and shameful must be awful. 

[Ozlsn]

16 hours ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

That's probably sleeping in your old bedroom

And getting less sex than you were before the wedding, because awkward.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

Poor kids!

“The first thing we addressed was their heart of repentance, and from there, we moved forward.”

An unplanned pregnancy is always tough, but having parents that make you feel extra guilty and shameful must be awful. 

The biggest thing I would harp on if it was my kid is “I gave you condoms, why didn’t you use them every single time?”  I wouldn’t shame a kid for having sex. But I would be wondering what went wrong because I am the type to educate about safe sex. So if I know where the problem lies, I could figure out a way it doesn’t happen again in the future. And of course I would never allow 2 children to marry. The only reason those two wanted to get married is because it’s so ingrained in them that you must get married if you get pregnant. I think 2 kids in the secular world wouldn’t automatically want to get married. It shows a lot that these two kids wanted to. I don’t think that’s typical of teens. 

[Ozlsn]

15 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I think 2 kids in the secular world wouldn’t automatically want to get married. It shows a lot that these two kids wanted to. I don’t think that’s typical of teens. 

There was a case here about 20 years ago where a 17 year old couple asked permission from a judge to marry due to pregnancy (minors can only be married here with permission from the court). It was refused as the stigma of being born to unwed parents was pretty much gone, and the judge essentially said they could wait until they were legally adults and go ahead then. I was surprised that anyone felt that strongly about it to take it to court - this couple didn't appear particularly religious or from religious backgrounds (to be honest my first thought was "well if you were so concerned about this why were you having premarital sex then?")

[JermajestyDuggar]

3 minutes ago, Ozlsn said:

There was a case here about 20 years ago where a 17 year old couple asked permission from a judge to marry due to pregnancy (minors can only be married here with permission from the court). It was refused as the stigma of being born to unwed parents was pretty much gone, and the judge essentially said they could wait until they were legally adults and go ahead then. I was surprised that anyone felt that strongly about it to take it to court - this couple didn't appear particularly religious or from religious backgrounds (to be honest my first thought was "well if you were so concerned about this why were you having premarital sex then?")

That’s crazy to me that two non religious teens would want to get married underage. Most teens I know who are head over heels for their partner, would still say, let’s wait until we are older to get married. Only because they have school and so much stuff still going on in their lives that marriage could get in the way. The baby is already going to provide major roadblocks to things they want to do and accomplish. Like graduating with a good gpa and extra curricular activities. But being married adds even more to that. 

[FilleMondaine]

@JermajestyDuggar and @Ozlsn, you would think that non-religious teen would, and yet in my high school in the 1990s, the school library carried Brides magazine. And it was always very popular.

Also being a teenager in the 1990s, during the death-sentence-AIDS-era was that condoms were ubiquitous. But the under-30s tell me that condoms aren’t a thing anymore. Mind-blowing to me!

[Hane]

Back in the late ‘60s, two teenaged girls I knew got married sans pregnancy (and finished high school). One was Russian Orthodox (an Orthodox extremely conservative religion), and one was just a flaky kid who nagged her mother into allowing it. In 1973, there was a pregnant married couple in the high school where I student taught.

[Ozlsn]

8 hours ago, FilleMondaine said:

Also being a teenager in the 1990s, during the death-sentence-AIDS-era was that condoms were ubiquitous. But the under-30s tell me that condoms aren’t a thing anymore. Mind-blowing to me!

And me. HIV may not be a death sentence but it's still a chronic condition, and herpes isn't exactly sunshine and roses either!!

9 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Only because they have school and so much stuff still going on in their lives that marriage could get in the way.

That particular couple had left school already and were working, but even so - children put pressure on a relationship at any time, and legally there's not really much distinction here between married and de facto in terms of dividing assets, supporting children and so forth. In terms of jobless or other social payments there is no difference - I couldn't access the dole at one point because I was living with my now husband and he earned too much. 

[neuroticcat]

On 8/18/2023 at 9:46 AM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Someone is trying to backpeddle. I bet some of her humpers pointed out she was putting homeschool vs public school in previous posts:

Normally I write to all mamas (women, really)...is cracking me up. Her handle is literally "M is for Mama" and nearly 100% of her content is about family life. 

She has a very niche audience, which is actually fine and probably why she's as successful as she is. She is savvier than some other fundamentalist influencers in that she can dodge some of the contentious things, but even something not very extreme fundie (like homeschooling is obvs better) resulted in pushback from both sides and I imagine lost followers. I wonder what would happen if she was honest about many of the fundamentalist beliefs.

[danvillebelle]

17 hours ago, Hane said:

Back in the late ‘60s, two teenaged girls I knew got married sans pregnancy (and finished high school). One was Russian Orthodox (an Orthodox extremely conservative religion), and one was just a flaky kid who nagged her mother into allowing it. In 1973, there was a pregnant married couple in the high school where I student taught.

My senior year in high school ('86-'87) I was friends with a girl in chorus who was married.  She was 18, her husband was 20, they'd been dating since they were 16 and 14.  She was a really sweet, seemingly normal girl with a good head on her shoulders, just wanted to get married young (no pregnancy).  She graduated and went on to college. 

[smittykins]

On 8/21/2023 at 3:01 AM, GreenBeans said:

“The first thing we addressed was their heart of repentance, and from there, we moved forward.”

Years ago, the 17-year-old daughter of an IFB pastor in my town had a baby out of wedlock; she married the father when their son was about six months old. Shortly before the wedding, I asked her mom(whom I knew from a weight-loss group I attended at the time)if she believed they were ready for a lifelong commitment, and she said she thought so, and also mentioned something about “so they don’t fall into sin again.”

(I have no idea if they’re still together.)