2020 Election Fallout 17: More Trials, More Convictions

[GreyhoundFan]

Good news:

[Xan]

I'm not sure whether this should go here or under the Donald Trump heading.  It's an article that just showed up on Raw Story and is a very complete timeline on Jan. 6 and exactly who called whom and what Donny did or chose not to do.  Warning:  It's a long piece.

Spoiler

https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-january-6-coup/

It's more clear to me now on reading this that Pence didn't leave the area because, not only did he not trust the Secret Service, but he realized that they would have deposited him too far away to get back for the electoral ballot counting and the Repubs would let Grassley handle things and Grassley would have counted the false electors.  The reason given at the time was that Pence didn't want the rioters to see his motorcade leaving and abandoning everything.

Also, there are differing opinions on why the National Guard wasn't allowed to help the Capitol Police.  On the one side, people think that Trump wanted the insurrection to proceed.  On the other, people thought that things would escalate and that Donny would declare martial law.

Trump still thinks that January 6 was one of the most exciting days of his presidency.  

Oh please let this be the day that TFG trips on the stairs coming down from his airplane and does major damage to his remaining brain cells...

[Ozlsn]

6 hours ago, Xan said:

It's more clear to me now on reading this that Pence didn't leave the area because, not only did he not trust the Secret Service, but he realized that they would have deposited him too far away to get back for the electoral ballot counting

Or, you know, just shot him in the head, dumped the body and blamed the rioters. I think he stuck with democracy out of fear for his life in the end once he realised up close that he quite possibly wouldn't survive the transition to Trump's Brave New World but might get through OK if Biden was certified. 

[Ozlsn]

Reading the article and the speech emailed though to Trump to claim victory before all the postal ballots are counted is quite something.

Spoiler

Outside of the right-wing echo chamber, it was common knowledge that Republican-leaning, in-person votes would be counted first in a lot of competitive states, creating a “red mirage” (the false impression that Trump was going to win), after which there would be a “blue shift” as more Democratic votes — mail votes in particular — were counted.

Three days before the 2020 election, Tom Fitton of the right-wing group Judicial Watch emailed Trump an election night speech to exploit his base’s programmed ignorance of the red mirage/blue shift:

“The voters have spoken. The ballots counted by the Election Day deadline show the American people have bestowed on me the great honor of reelection to President of the United States. Federal law establishes November 3 as Election Day — the deadline by which voters in states across the country must choose a president. Some partisans will try to overturn today’s lawful election results by shamelessly counting ballots that arrive after Election Day for days and weeks. This is lawless, invites massive voter fraud, undermines our democracy, and could dishonestly cancel the votes of tens of millions of Americans who ensured their votes would arrive to be counted on Election Day. I am prepared to go to court to make sure this election is not stolen and am directing the Justice Department to defend federal election law accordingly. We had an election today — and I won. Some believe Election Day deadlines don’t matter and would attack democracy through fraud and judicial activism. Counting ballots that arrive after Election Day is unfair and shows contempt for the will of the people. I will defend, to the full extent of the law, free and fair elections and our constitutional republic from any electoral coup. Thank you and God bless America.”

What is this obsession with getting a result on one day instead of, you know, making sure you have accurately counted all ballots? The transition isn't until January ffs, it's not like the country is not continuing to be run. Even in 2000 I didn't really (and still don't really) understand why if the ballot was that confusing they didn't either re-run that election or count until both parties were satisfied, even if it took them past January 6th. That the Trump team were trying to move the election result to the Supreme Court again to have it ruled valid indicates that they were trying for the same playbook of a veneer of legitimacy coupled with a "you lost, deal with it" response that worked the previous time.

[fraurosena]

Just a reasonable conversation between peaceful protestors and Troy Nehls.

Some quotes:

Nehls:
"We're your friends!"
"I’ve been in law enforcement in Texas for 30 years, and I’ve never had people act this way. I’m ashamed!"

Insurrectionists: 
“They can only kill so many of us.”
“Fucking pedophiles! We know about your pedophilia!”
“If we’ve got to hang a bunch of crooked congressmen, we’ll do that, okay?”
"Coming for you Pelosi, you socialist c**t!"
"We know where you live!"
"Antifa's a bunch of p*ssies!"

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Wow that email is something else. It shows that before votes were even counted they had a plan in action with talking points and everything. That one guy didn't come up with those talking points that day. There was probably a committee of lawyers and other politically savy people meeting and planning...way ahead of the count.  

Anybody who is thinking they haven't spent the past 3 years making a better and more thorough plan is willfully stupid at this point.

Has anybody gone through and made a full transcript of that new Jan 6 video or close captioned it? I can't understand anything they're saying when I watch it. I don't do well with background/static type noise.

[Ozlsn]

13 hours ago, fraurosena said:

Just a reasonable conversation between peaceful protestors and Troy Nehls.

And which way did he vote last year and when certifying the votes?

Everyone who voted against certification should be regarded as suspect at this point. If you stood there and saw what was going on and still voted against... well you might have been trying to make sure you weren't taken out in friendly fire, but you certainly weren't acting in a way that would indicate you believed in and supported the election process.

[GreyhoundFan]

Still making arrests.

 

[CTRLZero]

Caught another one.  Carlos Ayala, Maryland elections official.  Gifted link:  WaPo - Maryland elections official arrested

 

Excerpt:

A top Maryland elections official was arrested this week on multiple charges that he participated in the U.S. Capitol attack and encouraged officers trying to disperse rioters to “join us.”

Federal investigators allege that Carlos Ayala, 52, scaled a police barricade on Jan. 6, 2021, while carrying a black flag that said, “We the People,” before pacing a line of police gathered to quell the riot.

[GreyhoundFan]

I feel absolutely no sympathy for this disgusting man.

 

[Xan]

You wouldn't think in this day and time that we'd still find people ignorant enough to refuse medical treatment from a black doctor.  I hope his stupid heart just quits beating.  That man is a waste of perfectly good oxygen.

[Zebedee]

I’m really not sure where is best to ask this, so I will do it here. Two things, this is  more rhetorical than anything: I have just read that Judge Kaplan (of the New York trials, in case all the other trials are confusing) has said all jurors should use fake names with each other… how come 71 million, give or take, Americans think this sounds like anything other than a mob boss? Why would they want him anywhere near government, there are enough awful, but not fondue-brained sacks of rancid trifle they could choose,  but it has to be the one with 91 and counting criminal indictments, the proven fraudster and rapist. Wtf is going on?

and then, in other news from Iowa, chuck grassley, with a (definitely not covid) infection is hospitalized. He is 90, he is elected until he is 94, if he stays alive. Look, I don’t want to be agist, there are plenty of smart people out there who are smarter at 90 than most of us at 20 (not saying that is him, haha) but with 70 years of experience. But why, oh why, do they all insist on staying in power? Why do you need to stand for a seat that keeps you there until 94? Same with DiFi and Biden (though I get why Biden is staying in, tbh). DiFi was just really sad, in the end.

I had a great uncle who was totally compos mentis until he died, aged 96. He needed a ton of medical help to get him there, and he opted out of more of it when it would prevent him enjoying life. He didn’t have any kids, but was passionate about saving the planet for the next generations, including the non human species. He absolutely wasn’t losing the plot, but at 90+, he would never have thought about taking on a 4-6 year commitment. He needed a nap everyday, despite being sharp as anything, and all that. 

It seems that age limits in government are really taboo, unless they involve younger age limits. I have asked my German partner how long Merkel could have gone, say, if people kept voting for her, and he doesn’t even know if there’s a limit. And I don’t think the UK has a limit, but 90, ffs, with several years to go? He isn’t even in danger of “losing” his seat to a democrat, so not damaging what we used to call “Republicans “ either. I just don’t get it. They could stay and be consultants or something for the next, 70 year old for all I care, future two times incumbents, but they just won’t leave. And they don’t get kicked out. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

I can see why a guy who's done this forever wouldn't want to retire. He probably has no other life and knows no other life. It's very common in people who retire to not know what to do with themselves.

What I DO NOT understand is why anybody would vote for somebody that old. Even if their mind is great - but for another reason - they're out of touch. I wouldn't want somebody who is 90 representing me in a modern world full of crypto currency, AI, everything done on the internet, and whatever the military is doing that I would assume includes some high tech stuff. The world moves fast and I would hope that people want a representative that can handle that. Presumably this guy has lots of handlers who do all the work, and that is concerning in a new way. 

My gramma, in her 90s, is...nice in her way....but I can't manage to explain to her how wifi works and despite explaining it hundreds of times she still doesn't understand why her kindle doesn't work when she puts it on airplane mode. Her children put her on an internet phone and she can't understand why when her internet is out her phone doesn't work either....it's been years and years of this. And most people have an older relative that drives them crazy with the...oldness... so voters, regardless of politics should in general understand that 90 year olds are not equipped (again in general). I would certainly demand, as a voter, some very very compelling evidence that anybody over 80-85 was really able to do this. 

 

I would be terrified to be on any of these juries.  terrified.

[fraurosena]

What I find most jarring about the median ages of members of Congress is that these people are not a reflection of the demographics of the country. It should be close to the same mix of young and old, men, women, ethnicities, genders, beliefs and financial backgrounds as the general voting public. But it’s not; not by a long shot.

As to why people stay on and on and on, right upbringing the day they die, well, it’s probably because it’s possible enrich oneself through lobbyists, other interested parties and insider trading and do relatively little to no real work. Grassley is probably napping whenever he needs to.. who’s to stop him? Who is going to hold him to account? Same with John McCain, who kept on working despite his brain tumor causing him to weirdly fumble through a public hearing. And it’s not a Republican thing either. Dianne Feinstein was clearly not ‘all there’ anymore, but continued on despite calls from the public for her to step down, almost until the day she died.

Of course in the current political climate and razor thin majorities I realize that vacating one’s seat could have far reaching consequences, but this phenomenon of just not leaving office is not new. It’s been going on for a very long time. So for me, the most logical explanation is money. That, and the power the position gives. Both are rather addictive after all.
 

Edited January 18 by fraurosena
Autocorrect fail

[GreyhoundFan]

Good.

[Becky]

I am so glad to see convictions with prison time for the insurrectionists.  Hopefully it will deter future similar actions - - because I am sure TFG is laying the groundwork now for when he loses again.  

[Audrey2]

5 hours ago, Becky said:

I am so glad to see convictions with prison time for the insurrectionists.  Hopefully it will deter future similar actions - - because I am sure TFG is laying the groundwork now for when he loses again.  

I'm not sure it will deter future similar actions from Trump's crowd because I think they are convinced that they're not going to lose again.

[Xan]

I think it's already deterred some of them.  Those truckers think that the Feds are setting them up and they think it the "same think that happened on January 6".  They're sure that the groups were infiltrated and that's why so many people are going to prison.  They were identified by the Feds.

Yeah.  They're paranoid.  In this case, it works in our favor.

[GreyhoundFan]

Not the brightest bulb in the box. 

[GreyhoundFan]

I hope the appeals court doesn’t block this. He needs to spend time behind bars. 

 

[GreyhoundFan]

Hooray!

 

[GreyhoundFan]

Yay!

[GreyhoundFan]

Oh, please.

 

[GreyhoundFan]

Why am I not surprised?

 

[apple1]

Just a passing thought while catching up on this thread: A "puking" rep symbol would sure get used a lot.