Seewalds 48: Homophobia Now Mixed With Hypocrisy

[Hera]

I’ve always felt kinda bad for Jessa. Smart (even though uneducated), business savvy, photogenic. Jessa could have been a very successful businesswoman or, honestly politician, or literally anything else if she’s had real, not-shitty cult parents. Even if she’d still married as a (basically) teenager, she’d still have been able to go to school, get a job, do whatever.  Now, she’s an uneducated mom of soon to be 5 with an equally uneducated husband and only her mercurial and controlling dad as a safety net. She could’ve done better if she’s been given any options. Most of the Dugger kids could’ve. 

[JDuggs]

2 hours ago, Hera said:

I’ve always felt kinda bad for Jessa. Smart (even though uneducated), business savvy, photogenic. Jessa could have been a very successful businesswoman or, honestly politician, or literally anything else if she’s had real, not-shitty cult parents. Even if she’d still married as a (basically) teenager, she’d still have been able to go to school, get a job, do whatever.  Now, she’s an uneducated mom of soon to be 5 with an equally uneducated husband and only her mercurial and controlling dad as a safety net. She could’ve done better if she’s been given any options. Most of the Dugger kids could’ve. 

I don’t think I feel bad for Jessa. Compared to her three sisters in her age group, nothing stands out about Jessa. Jana has shown herself to be interested in home renovations, interior design and gardening. Jill studied midwifery, gardens and wrote a book. Jinger worked on a couple of books and had a podcast. If Jessa wanted to be a more well-rounded person, she could have been more like her sisters. Instead, it turns out she’s pretty good at birthing babies. She likes just being a SAHM and there’s nothing wrong with that option either. Jessa has more IG followers, a lot more, than any other Duggar. I assume she’s getting a decent income from her social media.

Ben does have a real degree from Moody Bible Institute. He’s a pastor at a small church. This seems like it was his goal. For a guy with zero charisma, he’s doing okay.

[Idlewild]

5 hours ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I am not sure how Jeremy slipped through, but Derrick showed signs of being a good JB fanboy early on, which likely gave JB a false sense of security.

I agree about Derick, and I think JB was prepared to gamble on Jeremy because by the time he came along, it was Counting On, which had lower ratings and a much less certain future with TLC. Weddings and babies scored big ratings and Jeremy would be of interest because he was so different from the Duggar boys and the previous sons in law. JB was desperate to keep the show on air.

 

[Cam]

8 hours ago, Idlewild said:

I agree about Derick, and I think JB was prepared to gamble on Jeremy because by the time he came along, it was Counting On, which had lower ratings and a much less certain future with TLC. Weddings and babies scored big ratings and Jeremy would be of interest because he was so different from the Duggar boys and the previous sons in law. JB was desperate to keep the show on air.

 

I agree that JB probably figured Jeremy was good for ratings. Also, tho, my opinion is that JB never had much of a bond with Jinger, and as long as a potential husband filled certain requirements, he didn’t much care who she married. I think JB was so drunk on his own koolaid he believed he’d raised Jinger to be a docile female who’d simply go along with the program and never make waves. She was kind of like an earliest version of a lost girl. JB thought he could pawn her off to a husband and fahghettabout her. 

[SassyPants]

12 hours ago, JDuggs said:

I don’t think I feel bad for Jessa. Compared to her three sisters in her age group, nothing stands out about Jessa. Jana has shown herself to be interested in home renovations, interior design and gardening. Jill studied midwifery, gardens and wrote a book. Jinger worked on a couple of books and had a podcast. If Jessa wanted to be a more well-rounded person, she could have been more like her sisters. Instead, it turns out she’s pretty good at birthing babies. She likes just being a SAHM and there’s nothing wrong with that option either. Jessa has more IG followers, a lot more, than any other Duggar. I assume she’s getting a decent income from her social media.

Ben does have a real degree from Moody Bible Institute. He’s a pastor at a small church. This seems like it was his goal. For a guy with zero charisma, he’s doing okay.

I would call both Ben and Jessa low energy. They seem to like the quiet, country life and prefer just letting life happen vs seeking out bigger and better adventures. It does seem a bit of a change from sharp mouthed, skydiving, teenage Jessa. A couple of comments from Jessa that I will never forget:

1) One time in a TH with her parents the producer asked Jessa if she had any gentleman callers and Jessa replied, “Yes, but they’re all weirdos or creeps.” Michelle looked horrified and made some comment about how that “wasn’t a nice thing to say.”

2) “If God had wanted us to see sunrise, he would have made it later in the day.”

Lastly, the piling up of dirty diapers on the dresser…you are part of a fertility cult and had 2 babies in 2 years, did you not think to buy (or get from the TTH shed) a diaper pail?

 

[HeartsAFundie]

13 hours ago, JDuggs said:

I don’t think I feel bad for Jessa. Compared to her three sisters in her age group, nothing stands out about Jessa. Jana has shown herself to be interested in home renovations, interior design and gardening. Jill studied midwifery, gardens and wrote a book. Jinger worked on a couple of books and had a podcast. If Jessa wanted to be a more well-rounded person, she could have been more like her sisters. Instead, it turns out she’s pretty good at birthing babies. She likes just being a SAHM and there’s nothing wrong with that option either. Jessa has more IG followers, a lot more, than any other Duggar. I assume she’s getting a decent income from her social media.

Ben does have a real degree from Moody Bible Institute. He’s a pastor at a small church. This seems like it was his goal. For a guy with zero charisma, he’s doing okay.

Ben also has an associate degree from National Park Community College, a state school in Hot Springs, Arkansas.  I remember Jessa being at his graduation.  And for some reason, I thought he worked at a State Farm insurance agency before he married Jessa, as well as being involved with a windshield repair business.   

[Idlewild]

In his own way I think Ben liked being famous as much as his pal Jeremy. Ben sought out Jessa. He tried very hard to be interesting content for the show- his ‘rap’, pretending to be a football coach for Jesus etc. He also did the ‘Seewald Family Ministry’ where he tried to lecture us about life - who can forget the ‘why walking is nice’ sermon?? 
He now has a Moody degree, a parish, a house, a gaggle of kids and up until recently the occasional People magazine shoot, all without breaking a sweat thanks to Jessa’s fame and latterly monetised social media. 

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, Idlewild said:

In his own way I think Ben liked being famous as much as his pal Jeremy. Ben sought out Jessa. He tried very hard to be interesting content for the show- his ‘rap’, pretending to be a football coach for Jesus etc. He also did the ‘Seewald Family Ministry’ where he tried to lecture us about life - who can forget the ‘why walking is nice’ sermon?? 
He now has a Moody degree, a parish, a house, a gaggle of kids and up until recently the occasional People magazine shoot, all without breaking a sweat thanks to Jessa’s fame and latterly monetised social media. 

I always thought Ben’s parents should have been kicked in their collective asses for allowing their teenage son to basically stalk a teenage girl that he saw on the teevee.

[JermajestyDuggar]

23 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I always thought Ben’s parents should have been kicked in their collective asses for allowing their teenage son to basically stalk a teenage girl that he saw on the teevee.

Oh his dad is awful. I’m sure he encouraged it. 

[fluffernutter]

OMG that rap. That was so very awful and awesome. I was taping (tivo? recording?) the shows at the time and me and the kids and husband would just watch and laugh, rewind, watch and laugh again. Was it "Does anybody here believe it?" 😂 Even Jessa's face. I'm embarrassed to admit how much I cringe-loved that. 

[Meggo]

On 9/15/2023 at 8:31 PM, Queen Of Hearts said:

I am not sure how Jeremy slipped through, but Derrick showed signs of being a good JB fanboy early on, which likely gave JB a false sense of security.

This has always kind of confused me. Like - Derrick has actually grown a spine/back bone. I don't like his beliefs etc but he HAS managed to stand up for his wife and his family, they do seem genuinely happy together etc. So how did THAT get past JB's screening and never getting to have a private conversation with Jill before marriage. From what I remember - their text thread had to have a parent involved, calls could be monitored, JB was EVERYWHERE when they went on that trip. Was Derrick a fan-boy and then he saw into the inside machinations? Was Derrick never a fan boy but managed to put on a good enough show that he was let in and THEN could relax and show his true colors? 
They all take such a gamble, never being along with the person, always having the potential for their chats to be monitored in some way - it's a gamble that the person you marry is ACTUALLY the person you've been talking to for the last few weeks. (Because they don't have long engagements..) 

[JermajestyDuggar]

JB was completely new to the courtship of his daughter aspect. I’m sure he was easily fooled by Derick’s enthusiasm. I’m sure Derick was easy to boss around before they got married. Now he knows better and I think he will be more careful with the 4 youngest. I’m guessing they will marry into like minded families. Well that’s if they don’t rebel and move out on their own before they marry. It’s hard to say what will happen with the youngest 4. 

[St.Clara]

I think there were several actually good reasons for JB to have Jill marry Derick (from his point of view):

1) From how Jill tells it, this was essentially an arranged marriage although she ended up agreeing to it. JB set her up with him. I think he did it because he believed that one of his daughters marrying would make the show even more successful (and he was right about that). (I found it very interesting that Jill said JB would never have consented to her visiting Derick in Nepal if it had not been for the show.)

2) Derick working as a missionary could have made for really good content for the show. Besides, it would also mean that Derick would stay financially dependent on and therefore beholden to JB because you cannot make a lot of money by being a missionary. JB probably did not foresee that Derick would choose to work at Walmart instead of relying on JB to pay for them as long as they were still trying to get a missionary gig. (I wonder whether Derick did that because he was already creeped out by JB or if he was simply not comfortable living on other people´s money.) Even today Derick says that he still would like to be a missionary, so I don´t think that JB was stupid for believing him at the time.

3) From JB´s point of view, Jill did not marry Derick because of Derick but because of JB, because JB told her so and she was his sweet Jilly muffin. If Jill did not choose the guy herself but just obeyed her father in marrying him, why would JB be afraid of her ever siding with her husband over her father?

I sincerely think that, in this case, JB was not stupid but just out of luck.

And I am very glad he was. Obviously.

Edited September 18, 2023 by St.Clara

[SassyPants]

13 minutes ago, St.Clara said:

I think there were several actually good reasons for JB to have Jill marry Derick (from his point of view):

1) From how Jill tells it, this was essentially an arranged marriage although she ended up agreeing to it. JB set her up with him. I think he did it because he believed that one of his daughters marrying would make the show even more successful (and he was right about that). (I found it very interesting that Jill said JB would never have consented to her visiting Derick in Nepal if it had not been for the show.)

2) Derick working as a missionary could have made for really good content for the show. Besides, it would also mean that Derick would stay financially dependent on and therefore beholden to JB because you cannot make a lot of money by being a missionary. JB probably did not foresee that Derick would choose to work at Walmart instead of relying on JB to pay for them as long as they were still trying to get a missionary gig. (I wonder whether Derick did that because he was already creeped out by JB or if he was simply not comfortable living on other people´s money.) Even today Derick says that he still would like to be a missionary, so I don´t think that JB was stupid for believing him at the time.

3) From JB´s point of view, Jill did not marry Derick because of Derick but because of JB, because JB told her so and she was his sweet Jilly muffin. If Jill did not choose the guy herself but just obeyed her father in marrying him, why would JB be afraid of her ever siding with her husband over her father?

I sincerely think that, in this case, JB was not stupid but just out of luck.

And I am very glad he was. Obviously.

BUT…according the Jill and DD JB wasn’t actually paying them to work the show. Yes, he supplied housing and a car, but I don’t think he was paying the Dillards what WM was paying an entry level accountant. Remember DD stated that he thought they were “volunteers” when doing the show.

I wish that Jill (maybe she did and I missed it) would have talked about why DD left WM. I know they said they felt overworked with having to do the show. I think they should have talked to JB about finances before DD quit WM. In hindsight, they should have quit the show vs the steady job, as eventually they did quit the show too.

It all comes down to JB being an underhanded control freak. He had a bunch of kids, put them to work, and kept the money for himself.

[indianabones]

59 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I wish that Jill (maybe she did and I missed it) would have talked about why DD left WM. I know they said they felt overworked with having to do the show. I think they should have talked to JB about finances before DD quit WM. In hindsight, they should have quit the show vs the steady job, as eventually they did quit the show too.

I thought it was fairly clear that Derick quit working for Walmart so they could go be missionaries in El Salvador.

[Alisamer]

4 hours ago, Meggo said:

This has always kind of confused me. Like - Derrick has actually grown a spine/back bone. I don't like his beliefs etc but he HAS managed to stand up for his wife and his family, they do seem genuinely happy together etc. So how did THAT get past JB's screening and never getting to have a private conversation with Jill before marriage. From what I remember - their text thread had to have a parent involved, calls could be monitored, JB was EVERYWHERE when they went on that trip. Was Derrick a fan-boy and then he saw into the inside machinations? Was Derrick never a fan boy but managed to put on a good enough show that he was let in and THEN could relax and show his true colors? 

I personally suspect Derrick (and Jill) got a good slap in the face by "real life" and that's what strengthened his (and her) spine. Derrick seemed to start out young and idealistic - he was going to be a missionary, and make a difference! He'd save peoples' souls and help with their physical needs and do Jesus' work. And Jill was pretty and famous, and Jim Bob was willing to marry her off to him, and a big part of being a missionary is raising support for your work - so this semi-famous apparently wealthy father-in-law seemed like a great thing to have. They'd build an audience of potential donors, have some TV money, and be supported in being wonderful missionaries improving the lives of the unsaved and saving their souls so they get to go to heaven.

Then, they are in Central America with a toddler and feeling isolated and probably also getting some pushback from people there who are already Christian, thank you, and no they don't want to convert to whatever fundie legalistic version Derrick and his group are peddling. Then they realize JimBob's support seems only to extend to what makes HIM money via the show, and then there's a traumatic expensive birth but there are other weddings to show and other babies due and the show isn't focused enough on THEM to make them invaluable to the franchise. Jessa is more photogenic and Jinger's more of a risk factor, and they are trying to keep Josh's indiscretions hidden and it becomes very clear that Jill and Derrick aren't going to be top billing. Even if they continue to pop out the expected never-ending stream of babies, despite risks, despite financial worries, despite common sense. They are just part of the Duggar crowd, essentially interchangeable. 

And then there is the revelation of what Josh did to his sisters, and Derrick, having had a real education and not being so isolated, realizes "damn, Jill could really benefit from some therapy." Because wow, JimBob is playing at being this godly patriarch and look what he was covering up! And that had to be a huge shock to shake them up and make them really see that JimBob is not that great, their situation is not that great, and if jimBob's version of Christianity allowed that sort of coverup, maybe they ought to look closer at it, and consider making their own decisions about their life choices. 

I think Jill and Derrick probably held on to the Duggar coattails a little longer than many people might have, but it just became too clear to ignore - they were going to end up living a life of being poor and beholden to JimBob and always having to follow his rules whether they were safe or good or healthy or not, even to the point of hiding and excusing abuse. Their kids would be poorly homeschooled and limited further, leaving Jill and Derrick stuck with a gaggle of also poor children in the long run. Or, they could take a step back, and find their own way. Still Christian, still on the fundie side of it even, but making their own choices regardless of Boob and Mechelle's preferences. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Jessa answered some pregnancy questions and said no more homebirths. She says it’s no longer possible since she tends to hemorrhage after birth. Thank goodness she has some sense. 

[Coconut Flan]

At least she took it as a hint not to birth at home.  Now she needs to move along to not tempting fate and quit birthing at all.   

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, indianabones said:

I thought it was fairly clear that Derick quit working for Walmart so they could go be missionaries in El Salvador.

But that cost them money. How did they think they would care for their family?

Edited September 18, 2023 by SassyPants

[eljayem]

I think they probably thought that JB, the show, or the missionary team/service they were part of would pay - ultimately JB would make sure somehow they would be taken care of. Basically they were making a great sacrifice to become missionaries so it was either an assumption or a test if they would be supported. I remember in one of the earlier seasons when they asked the kids what they wanted to be when they grew up all of the boys one by one said "missionary" I mean who can say if they meant it or were parroting what their parents wanted them to say but it showed that being a missionary was venerated - they were heroes. So back when Jill and Derrick announced they were going on a mission I assumed JB and M must have been over the moon. They were doing the walk as well as the talk.

[Alisamer]

54 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

But that cost them money. How did they think they would care for their family?

Most missionaries spend a lot of time fundraising to support themselves, especially at first. They'll usually go around, speak at churches, take up love offerings but more importantly get people and churches to pledge support on a regular basis, through whatever missionary organization they are working through or with. Many of them are very clear and open - "this is our expected monthly need that includes our housing, travel, food, living expenses, money to put toward retirement, and a little extra to put aside in case of emergencies."  

They likely put some of what they had toward going to work there, but they likely expected that like most missionaries, they'd be funded by donations and pledges. They probably counted on Jim Bob giving a certain amount, and hoped that having the Duggar name recognition would bring in even more money, so they'd have enough. 

Long term missionaries live on pledges and donations, and occasionally go on "deputation" to go stir up some more if it seems the pot is running dry. Just like most non-profits and charities, really. 

[patsymae]

9 hours ago, Meggo said:

This has always kind of confused me. Like - Derrick has actually grown a spine/back bone. I don't like his beliefs etc but he HAS managed to stand up for his wife and his family, they do seem genuinely happy together etc. So how did THAT get past JB's screening and never getting to have a private conversation with Jill before marriage. From what I remember - their text thread had to have a parent involved, calls could be monitored, JB was EVERYWHERE when they went on that trip. Was Derrick a fan-boy and then he saw into the inside machinations? Was Derrick never a fan boy but managed to put on a good enough show that he was let in and THEN could relax and show his true colors? 
They all take such a gamble, never being along with the person, always having the potential for their chats to be monitored in some way - it's a gamble that the person you marry is ACTUALLY the person you've been talking to for the last few weeks. (Because they don't have long engagements..) 

Derrick was a major dick (Whatever he was doing in Nepal, the SA grifting, the infamous cat incident) and he's now just a political dick, so he definitely has grown up a lot. He has achieved things that actually take hard work and discipline, which I doubt any Duggars even recognize, he supports his family, and most important, he seems to have been and continue to be a really good husband to Jill -- at first I thought it might just be about money for him but I don't think so.

In a way this situation reminds me of the Willis family--from what I understand, it was Jessica's now-husband who figured out what was going on and supported her to speak out and start to get healthy.

Derrick is not somebody I would want to know, but I don't think you can fault him as a supportive husband.

[ifosterkittens]

44 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

Most missionaries spend a lot of time fundraising to support themselves, especially at first. They'll usually go around, speak at churches, take up love offerings but more importantly get people and churches to pledge support on a regular basis, through whatever missionary organization they are working through or with. Many of them are very clear and open - "this is our expected monthly need that includes our housing, travel, food, living expenses, money to put toward retirement, and a little extra to put aside in case of emergencies."  

I know the Rodrigues family has a printing ministry, so it isn't the same as a missionary, but I wish they had to be as transparent with their financial breakdown since they use the ministry to pay their bills. Jill does make some money with Plexus, but based on her ranking it isn't what they use to fund their lifestyle. 

7 hours ago, St.Clara said:

Even today Derick says that he still would like to be a missionary, so I don´t think that JB was stupid for believing him at the time.

I wonder if it something Derick would like to do in theory, but not in practicality. Why bother going to law school if the plan was to go back to being a missionary? Perhaps it is something he views as an option once the children are grown and he and Jill are empty nesters. 

[gobucks]

Jessa said in her IG stories today that they do not follow IBLP. Tried attaching a photo for the first time. We will see if it works. 

[SassyPants]

6 minutes ago, gobucks said:

Jessa said in her IG stories today that they do not follow IBLP. Tried attaching a photo for the first time. We will see if it works. 

So they’re all in denial and distancing mode now.