Harry & Meghan 14: The Reverse Harry - Restoring the Angevin Empire

[viii]

I feel like I remember reading that the palace was trying to contain the Vegas story but it exploded out of their control due to leaks. That would certainly be a very hard one to keep private. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Yeahhhhhh....william.may have done as much wild stuff but probably did it in the confines of his aristocratic circles in non public places.

Harry...it's like he wanted to get caught out.

It does seem that Williams wild days were of shorter duration. Harry's went on for a long while.

[treehugger]

Meghan was reportedly terribly cheap about things like housing also though.  She never owned any property previously and a lot of her rich woman lifestyle involved things like going on friends’ yachts and borrowing their private jets. 
There’s been no end of the complaining about how expensive everything is when they have to pay for it, it seems they are just profoundly unhappy when they aren’t being given the very best for free by family. I’m not seeing confident, established, independently wealthy people here. I am seeing a lot of spoiled and entitled prince and nouveau money extravagance. Meghan was never wealthy enough to live the lifestyle she is living now.  They are doing the billionaire lifestyle on a millionaire budget. 

[Jackie3]

Apparently, Adelaide Cottage and Frogmore are about 900 yards apart.   I am surprised that Charles wants his grandchildren to live so close to a sex offender. 

 

20 minutes ago, treehugger said:

There’s been no end of the complaining about how expensive everything is when they have to pay for it, it seems they are just profoundly unhappy when they aren’t being given the very best for free by family. I’m not seeing confident, established, independently wealthy people here. I am seeing a lot of spoiled and entitled prince and nouveau money extravagance. Meghan was never wealthy enough to live the lifestyle she is living now.  They are doing the billionaire lifestyle on a millionaire budget. 

This is true for Prince Andrew for sure! He seems unhappy when he is required to move to a different luxury home. 

As for the Sussex's, they've made it clear (by moving to California!) that living a luxurious royal lifestyle is not important to them.

I hear you, though. When she lived in England, she had no right to complain about anything--she was lucky to be there, amiright? She should've just taken what she was given, groveled some thanks, and been grateful. Good thing they moved.

It's pretty clear Meghan was happiest living her independent life in Toronta and that the royal life was a huge step down. She'd been perfectly capable of earning her own money. This is what they have done in CA and with great success, too. Plus, she gets to wear whatever she wants without having to follow invented "protocols." 

 

3 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

Probably true but I also think he went further than William. There‘s wild partying & getting drunk and then there‘s taking psychodelic drugs and being photographed naked in Vegas.

Wild partying is very unusual for wealthy young men traveling in aristocratic circles. Most young men like to spend their time in libraries and shopping at Macy's. Very few want to party.

[prayawaythefundie]

1 hour ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Did Kate ever *really* live on her own? Pay her own bills and have no expectation of marrying W?  If she did it was maybe a year or two with parental support. So I imagine she was already sorta prepared for bending to the BRF was of doing.

Not really. She lived in a very nice flat in London with her sister bought for them by her parents after graduating St. Andrews. By then William had given her that ring with both their birthstones so I‘d say she was prepared for the possibility of ending up a royal bride one day. 

[Jackie3]

7 minutes ago, prayawaythefundie said:

Not really. She lived in a very nice flat in London with her sister bought for them by her parents after graduating St. Andrews. By then William had given her that ring with both their birthstones so I‘d say she was prepared for the possibility of ending up a royal bride one day. 

Kate never supported herself. That's a shame. Imagine being 41 and having eaten other people's bread all your life. It is a huge boost to self-esteem to earn your own money. 

She is supposed to be "earning her keep" by doing engagements, but she does very few. Her kids are in school and she has plenty of nannies, chefs and staff. I wonder why she does so little?

[just_ordinary]

I think everyone involved knew that his living situation was temporary. Also a single living in a small flat isn’t exactly revolutionary. Not even for rich people. No one kept him and later them from decorating. The Cottage has the typical features of lower ceilings in places and smaller rooms but there are thousands of beautiful and cozy cottages. No one forced H to live like a stereotypical bachelor. He didn’t care.
When she moved in it was already clear they were going to marry and the upgrade was only a question of what would Granny offer. Having to live in the Cottage for another year shouldn’t have been a problem. It might have been a step back for M but I really don’t see the problem with cramming it for a year or two while waiting for your shiny new home to be renovated for you?

[treehugger]

I am so over their unbelievable entitlement.  Living in a two bedroom cottage as a bachelor and later a married couple is so not the equivalent of living in your parents basement. It is more than adequate and far more than most people can dream of. My sister is 30 and single and has an established career and lives in a studio apartment. And she’s grateful for a place to call home.  The constant whining and complaining about how awful their living conditions were just makes me dislike them more (again, I genuinely liked them and was so excited for them when they first got married, and now I’m just disgusted). What an arrogant, ungrateful ass he seems to be. 

[Giraffe]

Two bedroom also doesn’t automatically equate to tiny. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with two other adults. Our apartment is 700 square feet with very little private outdoor space. I can’t find the square footage of Frogmore but it sits on 33 acres!! They were also able to do whatever renovations on it they wanted! I have no sympathy for their woe is us act. Neither one of them understands “normal.” 

[Jackie3]

11 hours ago, treehugger said:

I am so over their unbelievable entitlement.

I'm sorry this couple did not meet your standards of gratitude. 

Perhaps you'd feel better knowing that they were not being handed this cottage. They were expected to "work" for it by attending engagements, obeying the Queen, showing up for events, staying out of politics and only saying polite non-committal things. 

Yuck.

Some people prefer not to live that way. Meghan, for example, easily earned her own living in the past and knew she could do so again. So she wasn't willing to kow-tow to the Queen in exchange for an old cottage on the Queen's grounds.

Others, like Andrew, lack initiative and just live off the public dime. 

But I hear what you are saying. This biracial woman and the Spare were not allowed to have any likes or dislikes about whatever they were given. Take it and smile was the order of the day!

 

 

17 hours ago, treehugger said:

Meghan was reportedly terribly cheap about things like housing also though.  She never owned any property previously and a lot of her rich woman lifestyle involved things like going on friends’ yachts and borrowing their private jets. 
There’s been no end of the complaining about how expensive everything is when they have to pay for it, it seems they are just profoundly unhappy when they aren’t being given the very best for free by family. I’m not seeing confident, established, independently wealthy people here. I am seeing a lot of spoiled and entitled prince and nouveau money extravagance. Meghan was never wealthy enough to live the lifestyle she is living now.  They are doing the billionaire lifestyle on a millionaire budget. 

Meghan did not have a rich mommy and daddy to buy an apartment for her, like Kate Middleton. Kate may have owned property, but that's because she was a pampered rich girl. She truly lived a "rich woman lifestyle"--which I'm assuming is a bad thing?? (sounds pretty nice to me).

Kate didn't get very far in life, considering her mommy and daddy handed her the best of everything. Other than marrying well, what has she done?

In contrast, Meghan had a middle-class upbringing and created quite a life for herself. How many people are millionaires in their '30s, with only modest help from mom and dad?

I've never seen Kate show any gratitude for free housing, travel, and money she gets.  I guess only Black women need to show gratitude.

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

Two bedroom also doesn’t automatically equate to tiny. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with two other adults. Our apartment is 700 square feet with very little private outdoor space. I can’t find the square footage of Frogmore but it sits on 33 acres!! They were also able to do whatever renovations on it they wanted! I have no sympathy for their woe is us act. Neither one of them understands “normal.” 

The 2 bedroom cottage was Nottingham Cottage. And I believe it is rather small, not updated, and really low ceilings. I've seen it described as shabby.

Not the same place as Frogmore cottage that is some kind house size and was renovated by H and M.

 

I get you guys points for sure. But if I as a mid 30s year old woman with money and formerly lots of freedom had to downsize to live in a small bachelor's pad for any period of time due to security or precedence or whatever.... I think I'd be rather upset about it. They complain about  many things that seem stupid but I feel for Meghan here. I'd be like "really?? really??! "

[Jackie3]

19 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

I get you guys points for sure. But if I as a mid 30s year old woman with money and formerly lots of freedom had to downsize to live in a small bachelor's pad for any period of time due to security or precedence or whatever.... I think I'd be rather upset about it. They complain about  many things that seem stupid but I feel for Meghan here. I'd be like "really?? really??! "

Meghan's not allowed to complain. Or have any preferences. She was supposed to be grateful 100% of the time. And she wasn't! She actually had the nerve not to like some things. 

[Coconut Flan]

10 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Two bedroom also doesn’t automatically equate to tiny. I live in a 2 bedroom apartment with two other adults. Our apartment is 700 square feet with very little private outdoor space. I can’t find the square footage of Frogmore but it sits on 33 acres!! They were also able to do whatever renovations on it they wanted! I have no sympathy for their woe is us act. Neither one of them understands “normal.” 

Frogmore "Cottage" has at least five bedrooms and is not small.  Nott Cott where Harry was living before marriage and they had only until a property was refurbished for them was the two bedroom truly a cottage. It's on the grounds of Kensington Palace.  

[treehugger]

Oh they are free to complain if they like, and I am free to judge their whiny, entitled asses.  I would judge William and Katherine just as harshly.  You can’t bring up how people would judge an extravagant coronation during this time of financial hardship and not see how this is similarly tone-deaf.  
People are being pulled from earthquake rubble in Turkey, and Ukraine is still at war, and people can’t afford to heat their houses in the UK and feed their families in the US, but their gifted, temporary cottage (you know, the one they have to suffer in while renovations are being done to a 10 bedroom house for them to live in) is too small.  And she had to deal with her husband’s stingy family the entire time she lived there. I mean she was only able to spend over a million dollars on a wardrobe that was heavily subsidized by her husband’s family.  it’s just horrible, the degradation they’ve had to experience. /heavysarcasm 

 

i just can’t feel sorry for her. Like other posters have pointed out, it isn’t like they couldn’t have looked for other accommodations in London that would have been safe and adequate. They were adults. If she was financially wealthy and independent apart from her marriage to the royal family, then this should not have been so difficult. I just can’t muster an ounce of sympathy for them.  Their constant whining and complaining has completely killed it for me. 

Edited March 4, 2023 by treehugger

[Giraffe]

Thank you for the correction. I can understand why that would be a shock. Even so, much of their public whining is ridiculous and tone deaf that I have very little sympathy for them. 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

Haha yeah. It's annoying that they're so...them.

but I can see the human side too.

I can only imagine...but I think if I were British I would be very anti monarchy and a new coronation would.be very frustrating.  But I also can't fully understand what it means to actual British people and I expect if in the end they still support it then ok.

 

[tabitha2]

If the majority of the citizens did not want it the Monarchy  would be gone  like most of the others in Europe. 

[noseybutt]

54 minutes ago, WatchingTheTireFireBurn said:

Haha yeah. It's annoying that they're so...them.

but I can see the human side too.

I can only imagine...but I think if I were British I would be very anti monarchy and a new coronation would.be very frustrating.  But I also can't fully understand what it means to actual British people and I expect if in the end they still support it then ok.

 

It’s a conundrum. I can say if I were British I would be as anti-monarchy as I am now, but if I were British I would not be who I am now.

There will be celebrations throughout the world when Britain finally dismantles the monarchy, and especially if it’s done with any sort of acknowledgment of the history.

But within the UK, it will be expensive and disorienting. They have to figure out what next. They will have to shift laws and traditions. If there is general recognition around the morality of hereditary power and government, then the House of Lords will also come under consideration.

This is where the UK system is very different then the Scandinavian monarchies—it’s the class system that it actively upheld at all levels.

 I don’t think it will happen when a simple majority of the people want the monarch gone. It’s too baked into the power structures. My best guess will be 10-20 years past the time the majority wanting it gone.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by noseybutt

[louisa05]

14 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I think everyone involved knew that his living situation was temporary. Also a single living in a small flat isn’t exactly revolutionary. Not even for rich people. No one kept him and later them from decorating. The Cottage has the typical features of lower ceilings in places and smaller rooms but there are thousands of beautiful and cozy cottages. No one forced H to live like a stereotypical bachelor. He didn’t care.
When she moved in it was already clear they were going to marry and the upgrade was only a question of what would Granny offer. Having to live in the Cottage for another year shouldn’t have been a problem. It might have been a step back for M but I really don’t see the problem with cramming it for a year or two while waiting for your shiny new home to be renovated for you?

This. I’m amazed at how H&M’s crying can make everyone ignore reality. Nottingham Cottage is 1300 square feet property designed by Christopher Wren. It’s perfectly acceptable for one or two people. William and Kate even lived there with a child and survived. And it certainly isn’t a dump as it was made out to be by the grifting Sussexes. If Harry had crap furniture that’s on him.  His inability to access his own money (he had an inheritance worth millions) to buy a couch is his own fault. But no one wants to admit that “Prince Charming” is a moron. It’s a documented fact that W&K paid for furnishings for their homes. Apparently, William knew how to acquire a couch and more.  

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, Giraffe said:

Thank you for the correction. I can understand why that would be a shock. Even so, much of their public whining is ridiculous and tone deaf that I have very little sympathy for them. 

People use the word "whining" a lot to silence others. I'm glad H&M don't fall for it! They keep telling their story, as often as they like, and raking in the bucks at the same time.

 

41 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

This. I’m amazed at how H&M’s crying can make everyone ignore reality. Nottingham Cottage is 1300 square feet property designed by Christopher Wren. It’s perfectly acceptable for one or two people

I don't think any amount of shaming can make someone like something they dislike. 

However, their current home they paid for with their own money. That's the benefit of being financially independent. There's no one demanding you be "grateful."

 

 

[VGL]

It's my understanding that Harry and William went to Eton because Diana wanted to send them there as it's tradition in the Spencer family.

You can walk from Eton to Windsor Castle so they were literally in their Grandmother's backyard.

 

[WatchingTheTireFireBurn]

30 minutes ago, VGL said:

It's my understanding that Harry and William went to Eton because Diana wanted to send them there as it's tradition in the Spencer family.

You can walk from Eton to Windsor Castle so they were literally in their Grandmother's backyard.

 

It was family tradition for Charles to go to Gordonstoun (spelling?) 

That didn't go so well either!

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

 But no one wants to admit that “Prince Charming” is a moron. It’s a documented fact that W&K paid for furnishings for their homes. Apparently, William knew how to acquire a couch and more.  

I'm happy to admit and call him an asshat. But you're right I didn't call him a moron. Moron implies just stupid/doesn't know better.

I think asshat fits his conceited head better.

[Four is Enough]

On 3/3/2023 at 11:26 AM, Baxter said:

. Harry is either too dense to understand how things work in his family or too dense to understand he needed to explain things to Megan. 

It is my  understanding that when a woman marries into the BRF, an older woman who has done the same "teaches her the ropes".

When Diana married Charles, the Queen Mother herself taught her the way to act and what to expect. when Meghan married Harry, I believe Sophie (Wessex) was the teacher. I just read an article that said Kate learned at HM's side.

I believe Meghan either didn't listen or completely rejected the overtures to help smooth her transition.

Harry would not have been appropriate to tell her what was what, because 1) he's been  immersed in it since infancy, and he wouldn't necessarily have been able to give a reason why some things were done; and 2) he might not be able to sort out everything he needed to tell, since he just automatically does things without thinking.

[louisa05]

1 hour ago, VGL said:

It's my understanding that Harry and William went to Eton because Diana wanted to send them there as it's tradition in the Spencer family.

You can walk from Eton to Windsor Castle so they were literally in their Grandmother's backyard.

 

Well, this can’t be! The holy martyred St Diana patron of moron princes would not have possibly made a decision that Harry does not like in retrospect! Surely someone in the axis of evil that is the family  chose his school.  Probably Camilla! 

[Jackie3]

4 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Well, this can’t be! The holy martyred St Diana patron of moron princes would not have possibly made a decision that Harry does not like in retrospect! Surely someone in the axis of evil that is the family  chose his school.  Probably Camilla! 

It's fun to mock someone who lost their mother. 

If I'd lost my mother very suddenly at 12, I'd probably idealize her too. 

If you read the book, though, Harry is able to be somewhat objective of the mother he lost so suddenly. For example, he speaks critically of how Diana dressed him when he was little. 

I don't think Diana was a holy martyr. I do think she loved her kids and died tragically young. I mean, 36? She lost so much of her life.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Jackie3