Harry & Meghan 14: The Reverse Harry - Restoring the Angevin Empire

[noseybutt]

9 minutes ago, apandaaries said:

Didn’t she study international relations at Northwestern? 
She and I are around the same age. Colonialism was definitely a part of my undergrad curricula in many different ways  and classes. It seems unlikely that a Northwestern grad wouldn’t have a solid understanding of that system and how it’s influenced the present.

That’s fair.

[Jackie3]

57 minutes ago, apandaaries said:

Didn’t she study international relations at Northwestern? 
She and I are around the same age. Colonialism was definitely a part of my undergrad curricula in many different ways  and classes. It seems unlikely that a Northwestern grad wouldn’t have a solid understanding of that system and how it’s influenced the present.

You know what she studied in college. That's remarkable. Sounds like you didn't go to Northwestern, but you somehow still know. That's remarkable.

Northwestern is an elite university that's very hard to get into. They admitted 7 percent of applicants last year. You forgot to mention that. Were you at Northwestern, too, or are you just assuming that every college teaches the same things? 

I suspect Meghan knew what colonialism was. I am not sure that NW taught its students about silly royal protocols like how to stand on the balcony or avoid the paparazzi. NW students were probably too busy studying advanced calculus to learn about Prince Charles and his siblings (important as that is).

After college, Meghan sounds like she was too busy living a pretty exciting and successful life to follow the royals.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by Jackie3

[viii]

8 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

You know what she studied in college. That's remarkable. Sounds like you didn't go to Northwestern, but you somehow still know. That's remarkable.

Northwestern is an elite university that's very hard to get into. They admitted 7 percent of applicants last year. You forgot to mention that. Were you at Northwestern, too, or are you just assuming that every college teaches the same things? 

You are just... so fucking weird. Point blank. 

[hoipolloi]

Whatever pre-wedding training Meghan received, it's probably safe to say that it was very light on the history and ramifications of British colonialism and how the BRF was complicit, benefitted from it, and what they did, if anything, to make amends. 

[apandaaries]

I love that the response to my “assumption” that an international relations major would know the history of colonialism is a bizarre assumption that all Northwestern students take advanced calculus. 😂 

Anyway, some of my colleagues are northwestern alumni. They’re all well-versed in history, colonialism, and post colonialism. 
Such topics would also have been covered in drama. Shakespeare plays are filled with scheming royal families.  And bizarre royal protocol does get mentioned. A drama major should also have encountered George Bernard Shaw, who focused on British society (including their class systems!). 
International relations would have also covered various protocols for meeting foreign dignitaries and respecting their ways, I’d imagine. Cultural competency counts for a lot in that field. Monarchism would had to have been covered. 
 

But then again, Bush the Second went to Yale and learned nothing. Elite schools can also have systems for students to succeed without actually learning very much. 

[klein_roeschen]

1 hour ago, apandaaries said:

I love that the response to my “assumption” that an international relations major would know the history of colonialism is a bizarre assumption that all Northwestern students take advanced calculus. 😂 

Anyway, some of my colleagues are northwestern alumni. They’re all well-versed in history, colonialism, and post colonialism. 
Such topics would also have been covered in drama. Shakespeare plays are filled with scheming royal families.  And bizarre royal protocol does get mentioned. A drama major should also have encountered George Bernard Shaw, who focused on British society (including their class systems!). 
International relations would have also covered various protocols for meeting foreign dignitaries and respecting their ways, I’d imagine. Cultural competency counts for a lot in that field. Monarchism would had to have been covered. 
 

But then again, Bush the Second went to Yale and learned nothing. Elite schools can also have systems for students to succeed without actually learning very much. 

I'm pretty much buffled here with the asumption that a person with a degree in International Relations is pretty much excused from knowing anything into a country and culture she moved to and married a high ranking member. Or learning anything on herself about said culture. Wtf and her initial goal with studying International Relations was to become an ambassador like her uncle

[noseybutt]

1 hour ago, klein_roeschen said:

I'm pretty much buffled here with the asumption that a person with a degree in International Relations is pretty much excused from knowing anything into a country and culture she moved to and married a high ranking member. Or learning anything on herself about said culture. Wtf and her initial goal with studying International Relations was to become an ambassador like her uncle

I completely agree. But Americans can be an insular bunch, even among the most educated. 

[AmazonGrace]

I don't know what they teach in International Relations but if you can get a degree in it without finding out how to look up information about new international situations  you're getting yourself into  it's a huge waste of time.

[Jackie3]

21 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

And Chris Rock just tore into her Ass in his Netflix show. He does a great impression of her

He also said that the royal family are the "original racists." And he's right!

Chris Rock is yet another dude making money off Meghan and Harry. Yet it's wrong for them to make money off their story themselves!

Edited March 7, 2023 by Jackie3

[just_ordinary]

On 3/6/2023 at 5:31 AM, viii said:

The comparison just doesn’t sit well with me. It’s like when a childless person says they’re tired and a parent immediately jumps down their throat, saying they don’t know what REAL tiredness is. Harry experienced loss and grief just as much as someone else who lost his parent. While his basic necessities were still met, the worst thing that could have happened to him, happened to him. Maybe I’m just BEC but this idea that because he’s royal, he didn’t have it *THAT* bad rubs me the wrong way. 

I am pretty sure the loss of his mother was traumatic and he didn’t get the help he needed (not out of ill will but because it’s not always easy to see what another person needs. Especially if you are affected and involved yourself. It happens all the time, but I believe parents have the duty to step out of their own problems and try. Charles and Diana failed their boys. And sadly, Charles failed them later own for quite some years as well. Nothing a relationship can’t recover from though.)

BUT whoever complains to sleep deprived parents about being tired has no right to be offended if they don’t take them seriously. Who even does that? Most people know better. Of course, when the phase is over (sometime between 1 and 4 years depending on the child I guess) it’s a different matter. And those parents normally won’t run around whining about those months/years forever. They will acknowledge it was hard but are more focused on the good times and the present. 
No one is saying H didn’t suffer. But his constant harping on about it, while he is, allegedly, a happy and free adult, with all the resources in the world to get better, is most definitely insulting. 
 

And talking about his personal experiences with drugs in a way that sounds like a recommendation is negligent and unacceptable. Especially as he looks like a poster child for some of the negativ side effects drugs can have on your mind and mental health. He sounds like a classic functional addict.

Edited March 7, 2023 by just_ordinary

[Jackie3]

On 3/5/2023 at 8:31 PM, viii said:

The comparison just doesn’t sit well with me. It’s like when a childless person says they’re tired and a parent immediately jumps down their throat, saying they don’t know what REAL tiredness is. Harry experienced loss and grief just as much as someone else who lost his parent. While his basic necessities were still met, the worst thing that could have happened to him, happened to him. Maybe I’m just BEC but this idea that because he’s royal, he didn’t have it *THAT* bad rubs me the wrong way. 

Of course. Castles and balconies and fancy private schools mean nothing if you've lost the one you love.

It's like a royal who has pancreatic cancer. All of a sudden, common shopgirls are luckier than they are. Death strips things away and shows what's most important. 

I'm sure Harry would have switched places with the poorest family if that family included Diana.

 

On 3/6/2023 at 7:57 AM, viii said:

You are just... so fucking weird. Point blank. 

Thank you, I agree!

[Manda]

https://www.skynews.com.au/lifestyle/celebrity-life/prince-harry-and-meghans-private-island-plans-after-frogmore-eviction/video/40f21486764147a61ebd47eab109d45b

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/harry-meghan-thinking-buying-own-193500450.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9uZXdzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAADGJCSveEB_qRelQjZRRo0NOaFJeKPzMZC46cEF9rndzLD1dLFCo8_If74p33T2uUYAvVTtaKXUAOEx65XS05rxc_6n4ziSegXcMVdkkMQs5ndSFK73hZsStJgB_NHjaiE-2k0SnH83nCsO-HJKU0Muala73ekLZfxhEjj2mPrI&_guc_consent_skip=1678295032

The talk this morning is that Harry and Meghan are looking to buy and move to a private island.  They're finding the heat too much in Montecito.  Having made themselves open to criticism, parody, and jokes isn't sitting well with them now.  

Edited March 8, 2023 by Manda

[LilaMae]

On 3/6/2023 at 11:48 PM, AmazonGrace said:

I don't know what they teach in International Relations but if you can get a degree in it without finding out how to look up information about new international situations  you're getting yourself into  it's a huge waste of time.

I actually completed a degree in International Relations (and sadly, this is the only time it's ever been relevant). We learnt about international relations theory, power dynamics between states, different forms of government, international law, international politics and history, political philosophy, amongst other things. 

Unlike a lot of people believe, it's not an international etiquette degree, nobody teaches you how to lay a table correctly for a State Dinner or anything. However, it certainly gives an appreciation of different cultures and the importance of political and historical structures and how this has affected the world that we live in. I find it hard to believe that Meghan got through that degree and *still* never thought to herself "Oh, I should probably research being part of the UK Royal Family before continuing to date this Prince". 

[Jackie3]

It's win after win for the Sussex's. Archie and Lilli will be keeping their titles.

[prayawaythefundie]

So we can stop pretending that Harry & Meghan don‘t care about titles and refused them for their children. 

[viii]

I'm sorry, but they're not "keeping" anything. Archie and Lilibet were automatically Prince and Princess the minute Lizzie died. Nothing has been granted or bestowed on to them. It was literally the wheel turning as always, following protocol. This is just the first time Harry and Meghan have mentioned using them. 

[louisa05]

On 3/7/2023 at 2:14 AM, just_ordinary said:

I am pretty sure the loss of his mother was traumatic and he didn’t get the help he needed (not out of ill will but because it’s not always easy to see what another person needs. Especially if you are affected and involved yourself. It happens all the time, but I believe parents have the duty to step out of their own problems and try. Charles and Diana failed their boys. And sadly, Charles failed them later own for quite some years as well. Nothing a relationship can’t recover from though.)

BUT whoever complains to sleep deprived parents about being tired has no right to be offended if they don’t take them seriously. Who even does that? Most people know better. Of course, when the phase is over (sometime between 1 and 4 years depending on the child I guess) it’s a different matter. And those parents normally won’t run around whining about those months/years forever. They will acknowledge it was hard but are more focused on the good times and the present. 
No one is saying H didn’t suffer. But his constant harping on about it, while he is, allegedly, a happy and free adult, with all the resources in the world to get better, is most definitely insulting. 
 

And talking about his personal experiences with drugs in a way that sounds like a recommendation is negligent and unacceptable. Especially as he looks like a poster child for some of the negativ side effects drugs can have on your mind and mental health. He sounds like a classic functional addict.

Some bitch told me I wasn’t tired because I don’t have kids at an alumni dinner once. I was two weeks past anaphylaxis and secondary anaphylaxis that almost killed me twice and still on a heavy doses  of steroids and antihistamines. But point taken. Clearly the bitch with two school aged kids at home in another state was more tired. 
Or there was the time another bitch informed me that driving 65 miles to pick up my terminally ill father and drive him back 45 miles the way I came for a medical consult then drive him back home then drive myself 65 miles back home was not exhausting like taking her teenager to school —which she didn’t even do every day as she had shared custody. Good to know that’s true. 🙄

People’s circumstances can be stressful for a variety of reasons. People can experience more stress in the same or similar circumstances than another person , too. 

[LilaMae]

44 minutes ago, viii said:

I'm sorry, but they're not "keeping" anything. Archie and Lilibet were automatically Prince and Princess the minute Lizzie died. Nothing has been granted or bestowed on to them. It was literally the wheel turning as always, following protocol. This is just the first time Harry and Meghan have mentioned using them. 

There was nothing that said they had to use the Prince/Princess titles, even if Archie and Lilibet are technically entitled to them. Prince Edward's children, Louise and James, are entitled to be a Princess and Prince, but their parents chose not to use those titles because the expectation is that the children will need to earn their own way in life being lower in the line of succession. It may be technically permissible for them to use the titles, but in 2023 it seems very anachronistic for the non-heir to insist on using them, especially when he has gone on and on about how damaging it is to be part of the institution.

They aren't being raised in Britain or even a Commonwealth country, they're living in America, a country where royal/aristocratic titles aren't a thing. How is this going to benefit the children? 

Edited March 8, 2023 by LilaMae

[viii]

I'm well aware they don't have to use the title, that wasn't the point of my post. Archie and Lilibet are in good company, though - there are plenty of other European royals that use Prince/Princess and will have to find a life separate from being the heir. And I'm sure Charles saw the way that Denmark's dumpster fire went down with Daisy yanking away titles from four grandchildren. Combined with the fact that Archie and Lilibet are mixed heritage, I can see him not wanting to cause anymore trouble than necessary. 

[treehugger]

I think the point being made was that H&M made a lot of fuss about titles. First that Archie wasn’t going to get one because of his skin colour (back when the BRF was horribly racist before they backtracked on that as well), and then later that titles weren’t important and they were going to let the children decide if they wanted to use them. I don’t give a flying fuck either way, but Harry and Meghan were the ones with a lot to say about titles, and about how absolutely horrible the institution that gave those titles was, so it’s fair to make a bit of fun that way.  Screw the monarchy, but also our children will be called Prince and Princess. 

[Jackie3]

14 hours ago, treehugger said:

I think the point being made was that H&M made a lot of fuss about titles.

The British aristocracy seems to care a lot about them, too. And the British press. "Strip of them of their titles" seemed to be their rallying cry during the last few months, as though that was such a terrible thing. Well, it hasn't happened.

I believe the Sussex's cared about titles as it related to security. They desperately needed security because of the death threats they received. That was the result of the media drumming up hate.

 

17 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

So we can stop pretending that Harry & Meghan don‘t care about titles and refused them for their children. 

Yes, please stop. They care tremendously about titles, because titles often come with security. They care about their kids safety a great deal--emotional and physical. Obviously both of these would have been at risk if they had remained in Britain.

I'm sorry,, but there not much evidence they want the titles so they can feel "grand." Royals who care about being "grand" do not move to Montecito, CA. They stay in Britain where people will curtsy to them.

 

16 hours ago, LilaMae said:

They aren't being raised in Britain or even a Commonwealth country, they're living in America, a country where royal/aristocratic titles aren't a thing. How is this going to benefit the children? 

I guess you didn't hear the part about how they'll only use the titles on formal occasions. Which is likely to be pretty rare, in a California beach community. It's nice you are worried about the kids, but I don't think Archie will be registered in kindergarten as "Prince Archie." 

How does it benefit Louis and Charlotte to keep mentioning their titles? Does it help them make friends at school? Quite the opposite, I suspect. Does it help them get along with others? Doubtful. Does it help keep them grounded and remind them they are no better than anyone else? Certainly not.

I'm not sure why you are uncomfortable with Lilli and Archie's occasionally using their titles, but it's OK fo rthe little Cambridges to use them every day.  It seems unhealthy for ANY child to use a title on a regular basis. George, Louis and Charlotte can see themselves described as Prince and Princess any day of the week, in any number of tabloids. They hear their mother and father addressed as HRH all the time, by he people around them.  I'm glad the Sussex's chose a different, healthier route!

And what about Camilla? First she wasn't going to have a title. Then she'd be Queen Consort. Now she's being called Queen Camilla because using "consort" is "too cumbersome"

Quote

A well-placed source said: ‘There’s a view in the Palace that Queen Consort is cumbersome and it might be simpler for Camilla to be known just as the Queen when the time is right.

That's the palace! They're all about simplicity.

I think it's Camilla who is obsessed with titles, not the two who moved far away from the royals.

 

On 3/6/2023 at 1:14 AM, apandaaries said:

Didn’t she study international relations at Northwestern? 
She and I are around the same age. Colonialism was definitely a part of my undergrad curricula in many different ways  and classes. It seems unlikely that a Northwestern grad wouldn’t have a solid understanding of that system and how it’s influenced the present.

Hating  on someone for not remembering their college classes? That's really scraping the bottom of the barrel! 

Edited March 9, 2023 by Jackie3

[KnittingOwl]

12 hours ago, viii said:

And I'm sure Charles saw the way that Denmark's dumpster fire went down with Daisy yanking away titles from four grandchildren.

In contrast, there wasn’t an uproar in Sweden with the children of Prince CP & Princess Sofia and Princess Madeline & Chris O’Neill lost their royal titles in favor of personal ones. They younger royals are Princes and Princess, but no longer HRH and not part of the working Swedish royal family, so their children won’t have titles. It wasn’t the big scandal like Denmark. 

[prayawaythefundie]

15 hours ago, viii said:

And I'm sure Charles saw the way that Denmark's dumpster fire went down with Daisy yanking away titles from four grandchildren.

And I shouldn‘t have been drinking anything while reading that…

Edited March 9, 2023 by prayawaythefundie

[viii]

4 hours ago, KnittingOwl said:

In contrast, there wasn’t an uproar in Sweden with the children of Prince CP & Princess Sofia and Princess Madeline & Chris O’Neill lost their royal titles in favor of personal ones. They younger royals are Princes and Princess, but no longer HRH and not part of the working Swedish royal family, so their children won’t have titles. It wasn’t the big scandal like Denmark. 

That's because it's not really comparable, imo. The only thing Sweden did was remove the HRH. The children of CP and Madeleine will still be royal family members and retain their Prince and Princess titles. In Denmark, Daisy removed everything so HRH Prince Nicolai became a Count. There's also the age difference - the younger royals of Sweden are still pretty young, and it's not going to affect them much. It's not like they're going to remember being HRH. However, for at least two of the Denmark boys, they're young adults and have said they felt like they've had their identity stolen. I don't think the two situations are really comparable, and I can see Charles watching how Denmark was handled and didn't want to even step one toe into that mess. 

Harry & Meghan are entitled to use the titles for their children, and the rest of the world is entitled to laugh at them for doing so. Either way, the world turns on. 

[Four is Enough]

22 hours ago, Manda said:

  Having made themselves open to criticism, parody, and jokes isn't sitting well with them now.  

Poor things. All that attention-mongering just didn't work out the way they thought it would.