Harry & Meghan 14: The Reverse Harry - Restoring the Angevin Empire

[Jackie3]

On 2/26/2023 at 9:50 AM, tabitha2 said:

The military or church has always been the place for younger sons of royalty or nobility to find their place in life and make their name. Ideally it keeps them out of trouble and gives them an officers good income combined with their inheritance to live very very well if not lavishly. 
 

Harry could have had a real future in a job that would have steadied him and given him focus but he figured other  things were more important. Too late now. 

He spent 10 years in the army. That's ten more years than most people spend, myself included. Since I didn't serve, I'm not in a place to scoff that Harry "didn't serve enough." Here in the US, people typically enlist for far less than 10 years (it's generally 4 years).

He could have spent those 10 years sitting in his palace being catered to. He'd have gotten medals anyway, the RF dishes out medals pretty readily to senior royals. 

Princess Anne, for example is an Admiral in the British Navy, a General in the British Army AND Air Chief Marshal in the Air Force. Anne rose to the top of each branch without lifting a finger! When you do the military like that, it's easy to stay in for a long time.

Harry took an unconventional route--he actually earned his metals and his rank.  That's why he was able to walk with pride here, and the others just looked like silly old fogies.

 

Harry didn't need a "real job" -- though he chose to have one for 10 years. I can't imagine a reason for him to stay in the army any longer. I could see why he'd get tired of deployments and danger, particularly if he wanted a family.

Charity work may not be a "real job" but it is also worthy of respect. Particularly when someone doesn't need a real job anyway.  Harry  worked veterans, created Invictus, worked with the Australian Army. I'm not sure what is wrong with these activities? 

 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Jackie3

[louisa05]

57 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

Harry took an unconventional route--he actually earned his metals and his rank.  That's why he was able to walk with pride here, and the others just looked like silly old fogies.

Charity work may not be a "real job" but it is also worthy of respect. Particularly when someone doesn't need a real job anyway.  Harry  worked veterans, created Invictus, worked with the Australian Army. I'm not sure what is wrong with these activities? 

 

Hold on....I'm confused. First of all, what are "metals"? But that's really the least confusing thing. 

In this and other threads, you have ranted regularly about how the charity work of every single member of the British Royal Family that has not relocated to La La Land is worthless and a mark of their extreme laziness. But here you are telling us that charity work is "worthy of respect". So which is it? Does it mean you are among the laziest people to ever walk the planet or is it a worthy of respect? 

Also, Prince Philip served in World War 2 and was cited for achievements in dispatches multiple times--all prior to his being part of the British royal family. Prince Andrew and Prince Charles both served in the military, Andrew in the Falklands War and Charles as commander of a coastal minehunter.

Charles used his severance pay on his separation from the Royal Navy to establish the Prince's Trust, a charity that, as of this year has helped 1 million young people, in Britain and around the world. But somehow, Harry's little foundation that gives out the occasional gift card is the one you admire. It's baffling. 

[Jackie3]

10 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Hold on....I'm confused. First of all, what are "metals"? But that's really the least confusing thing. 

 

LOL, I meant medals, of course. But a medal is an award you receive for service. "Metals" is probably the right name for those dangly things hanging off their uniforms. There's no real service behind it.

I definitely think any charity work is worthy of respect, no matter who does it. But showing up and shaking hands and having people curtsy to you--is that really work? Who is it helping? Studies have shown the British royals don't raise any money for charity by their appearance an event.

https://nypost.com/2020/07/16/royals-have-very-little-impact-over-charitable-giving-study/

The royals do nothing for most of their charities.

Quote

Giving Evidence, led by author and advocate Caroline Fiennes, found that 74% of the 1,187 UK-based charities that boast a royal patron were ghosted by said royalty last year, not appearing in a single “public engagement” on behalf of the organization.

Quote

The report concludes that “charities should not seek or retain Royal patrons thinking that they will bring the charity money” as they promise a “small to zero” effect on charities’ revenue.

But,  yes, if William shows up at a food bank (without photographers!) and spends a few days sorting produce--yes, that is a very good thing to do and certainly worth of respect. Do you have a link to something like that? 

The Earthshot prize is a terrible example--it's so obviously a vanity project. An environmental prize that requires celebrities to fly in from around the world! David Beckham, for example, flew 6300 miles to attend. But the winners weren't flown in because of the "environmental impact." I'm wondering if Wills does any real charity, as opposed to vanity charity.

 

10 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Charles used his severance pay on his separation from the Royal Navy to establish the Prince's Trust, a charity that, as of this year has helped 1 million young people, in Britain and around the world. But somehow, Harry's little foundation that gives out the occasional gift card is the one you admire. It's baffling. 

Charles is worth about $600 million. He donated his $8,000 severance pay for one year. That was 0.001% of his current net worth. OK, may 0.002% since he made the donation years ago when the money was worth more.

A donation of $8000 is actually incredibly cheap for a man of his wealth. It was also probably done (and widely publicized) for PR purposes. How would it look if a billionaire collected his severance pay from the government, while also taking tens of millions of  pounds a year from the Sovereign Grant? 

Edited February 28, 2023 by Jackie3

[AmazonGrace]

Courtney Cox says she never gave Harry psychedelic mushrooms 

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/courteney-cox-friends-prince-harry-1235531048/

 

[prayawaythefundie]

But did he say he got them from Cece or just that he got them at her house? I assumed it was some sort of gathering at her place. 

[Manda]

https://www.newsweek.com/meghan-markle-second-rate-princess-kate-middleton-gilded-youth-tom-quinn-1784077

Quote

"I don't think in the whole of history there was ever a greater divide between what someone expected when they became a member of the royal family and what they discovered it was really like."

Meghan seems to have had a total lack of preparation for the role before the engagement.  The blame probably can be split among quite a few people.  IMO Harry was so star struck that he became in denial of the potential problems so he wouldn't lose her.  He seemed more realistic with his prior girlfriends or they had more knowledge of what they were getting into whether or not Harry was open with them.  

[viii]

14 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Hold on....I'm confused. First of all, what are "metals"? But that's really the least confusing thing. 

If the snarkiest comment you can make here is that @Jackie3 made a spelling mistake - the troll is winning. 

2 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Courtney Cox says she never gave Harry psychedelic mushrooms 

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/courteney-cox-friends-prince-harry-1235531048/

I never once assumed that Courtney Cox herself hand delivered mushrooms to Harry. He made it seem more like a house party and he just took them while he was at her house. I'm not surprised she's speaking up - most celebs don't want to admit their drug use. 

Edited February 28, 2023 by viii

[Jackie3]

3 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Courtney Cox says she never gave Harry psychedelic mushrooms 

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/courteney-cox-friends-prince-harry-1235531048/

 

LOL, she was probably too high to remember the evening alltogether. 

 

2 hours ago, Manda said:

https://www.newsweek.com/meghan-markle-second-rate-princess-kate-middleton-gilded-youth-tom-quinn-1784077

Meghan seems to have had a total lack of preparation for the role before the engagement.  The blame probably can be split among quite a few people.  IMO Harry was so star struck that he became in denial of the potential problems so he wouldn't lose her.  He seemed more realistic with his prior girlfriends or they had more knowledge of what they were getting into whether or not Harry was open with them.  

I don't know if he was star-struck--he'd met much bigger celebrities before.

But I do think they were both so infatuated with each other that he forgot to tell her all the formalties and protocols. 

With that said, those formalities are not law. Lives don't depend on it.  If she curtsied to a duchess before a baroness, or wore a dark color instead of a light one, or made some other kind of "gaffe" -- a kind, supportive family would have helped her. They would have said, "You did great! Next time, though. . . ."

When they acted like it was the end of the world, that helped no one. 

I can remember going to my in-laws in the early days, with little knowledge of their family dynamics. It was easy to make mistakes till I figured things out.  What's important is how a family treats a new family member. It says a lot about their character. 

[just_ordinary]

Harry only earned one of his four medals through military service. The Afghanistan Service Medal through his two tours to Afghanistan. That’s also the only „real“ military medal. 

The other three are just Jubilee Medals. He got them just because his grandmother reached those milestones. They are basically a family certificate of attendance and hold no real value. Neither in the military nor in the world outside the royal bubble. 

He also has the KCVO Star (Knight Commander of the Royal Victorian Order) for his personal service for the monarch. It’s gifted by the monarch. No deeper connection to his military service but more a recognition of his achievements in general. 

[Jackie3]

5 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

The other three are just Jubilee Medals. He got them just because his grandmother reached those milestones. They are basically a family certificate of attendance and hold no real value. Neither in the military nor in the world outside the royal bubble. 

Yes, a lot of the senior royals wear those. They are participation prizes. Hell, I'd like to sit in the front row of the Jubilee and watch a show--I don't need a medal for that!  I agree those medals are ridiculous, no matter who wears them.

They were probably invented so that the royals would have something to wear on their uniform. After all, they often stand next to real military officers, who are all decked out with awards. It would be embarrassing for Princess Anne or Prince Edward to have nothing, and while junior military officers had lots of medals. That's just my theory.

Nice to know that Harry earned a real medal. Thank you for sharing that.

Quote

Speaking to Variety, Courteney called him 'a really nice person', adding: 'He did stay here for a couple of days — probably two or three. 

'I’m not saying there were mushrooms! I definitely wasn’t passing them out.'

This confirms Harry's version. She didn't give him the mushrooms, he found them in the fridge. Since she was out of town, one of her guests must have put them there.

Sounds like he has a friend in Courtney, though. 

Quote

She added: 'I haven’t read the book. I do want to hear it, because I’ve heard it’s really entertaining. But yes, it’s gotten back to me about it.'

D people really allow others to party in their home when they are out of town? Courtney is clearly not as uptight as Monica.

[Jackie3]

King Charles to "evict" Harry from Frogmore Cottage. He is giving it to his brother Andrew, who doesn't want it.

https://nypost.com/2023/02/28/king-charles-to-evict-harry-and-meghan-from-frogmore-cottage/

Lesson learned. If you want to be in good graces with the King, it's better to molest a teenager than write a memoir.

This is also a guarantee that Charles won't be getting a visit from his younger son any time soon. Or his little grandchildren.

This was the late Queen's wedding gift to H&M. Luckily, their CA home is a thousand times nicer in every way. And it's 8000 square foot larger. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by Jackie3

[QuiverFullofBooks]

If anyone happens to have Jackie3 blocked, she reported above that King Charles has evicted the Sussexes from Frogmore Cottage and wants Andrew to move in.

The King owns Windsor and Frogmore Cottage, and can do as he pleases with them. I think all leases on the estate may be reviewed at the beginning of a reign, so it’s possible that the timing isn’t purely because of Harry’s book. Giving the cottage to Andrew is not a sign of favor for him; it’s a major demotion from Royal Lodge. Charles absolutely does not have the option to turn Andrew (and Sarah) out in the cold. If he did, they would write books that spill way more tea than Spare did. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by QuiverFullofBooks
Added first paragraph

[viii]

I'm not surprised. The minute Harry went after Camilla, it was over for him. 

[tabitha2]

If the Sussexes want to visit The UK they can certainly get the most luxurious of hotels or rent a suitable place. Or just maybe if they had not alienated his well heeled friends a country house would have been offered but that one is out presumably. 
 

Charles is doing the absolutely correct thing.. Utterly no point in keeping a perfectly fine newly refurbished royal residence empty, Esp. in these times. If Andrew refuses their  are plenty of relations who would snap up a cozy family ready home. 
 

I have a deep suspicion  that given his love of spending and luxury Andrew can’t afford to upkeep his current massive money pit estate anymore and Frogmore is a better fit for his circumstances as much as Andrew would resist the truth. Honestly It may not be Charles sticking it to Andrew or trying to demote him but just the most practical solution for everyone. 

Edited March 1, 2023 by tabitha2

[viii]

My only issue with that is that Harry and Meghan privately paid for the renovations. If they have their home taken away from them (and it's no one's business besides theirs how often they stay there), then Charles should pay them back for the renovations. 

[tabitha2]

The money came from the sovereign grant and was always going to be refurbished and renovated as a heritage site. Then H&M chose to pay back the grant money. 

[Four is Enough]

But is it their home? They've left their home in the UK and have settled in the US. IMO, they can't have it both ways. They're either the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, and adhere to what goes with that, or they're just plain Harry and Meghan, a jet set couple with a couple of kids.

[tabitha2]

Not really. It belongs to the Crown estate. Any relative who pays up and who the Monarch  allows can live there and have. Staff have lived in the house as well. 

[viii]

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

But is it their home? They've left their home in the UK and have settled in the US. IMO, they can't have it both ways. They're either the Duke and Duchess of Sussex, and adhere to what goes with that, or they're just plain Harry and Meghan, a jet set couple with a couple of kids.

People can have multiple homes. I know lots of people who do it. 

It does get a bit trickier that it's property of the Crown Estate, but then Harry and Meghan should be reimbursed for the renovations. 

[prayawaythefundie]

1 hour ago, tabitha2 said:

The money came from the sovereign grant and was always going to be refurbished and renovated as a heritage site. Then H&M chose to pay back the grant money. 

Yes but in the end, they paid for it. I‘m with @viii here. Charles giving them that money back would be only fair and maybe he will.

[tabitha2]

I suppose that’s fair. It’s just pocket change to him anyway.

[Coconut Flan]

That they ended up paying for the renovations even after they left sticks with me, too.  They should at least be given the majority of that money back.  It doesn't make sense for Andrew to be in Royal Lodge, but that would be a huge change to end up in Frogmore Cottage.  Although there is the if it was good enough for Harry, it should be plenty good enough for Andrew thought also.  

It's based on a tabloid story after all so it may be smoke and mirrors.

Edited March 1, 2023 by Coconut Flan

[rosamundi]

2 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

The King owns Windsor and Frogmore Cottage, and can do as he pleases with them. I think all leases on the estate may be reviewed at the beginning of a reign, so it’s possible that the timing isn’t purely because of Harry’s book.

Andrew signed a 75 year lease, a commercial, legally binding document, on Royal Lodge in 2003. While Andrew is family, the Crown Estate is required to operate on a solid commercial footing, even for family homes, and I would be very surprised if there was a clause about reviewing the lease if the monarch dies. (I had cause to read one of the Crown Estate's commercial property leases recently and there was no such clause).

Andrew is also still in the period of his lease where he is entitled to compensation from the Crown Estate if they break the lease. Paying him over £1m to leave Royal Lodge and move into Frogmore would not make commercial sense.

[They'll kick him out and pay the compensation just to spite me now, you watch 😁]

[just_ordinary]

@rosamundi maybe it makes commercial sense though? I doubt Royal Lodge would just sit around empty. So maybe the lease it out for a higher rent, no family tariff this time. No idea how much PA.pays, but if it’s not a family tariff, it would make no sense if Charles has to step in and pay PA rent. 
I have no idea where the money for the private part of the renovation came from. SG? Inheritance? Duchy of Cornwall? I think they should get some of it back but not all. You never get your investment fully back if it’s not brand new. 
Frogmore is absolutely the right size for PA. Money wise and in regards to his position in the RF now. If true, I sure hope it stings. 

I will say, I never thought Charley had it in him.

[hoipolloi]

13 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

Frogmore is absolutely the right size for PA. Money wise and in regards to his position in the RF now. If true, I sure hope it stings. 

Hasnʻt Fergie been grifting her housing off PA? Thought I read somewhere that sheʻs also living at the Royal Lodge. 

I agree that a place like Frogmore is more appropriate for PA. I also agree that if H & M paid their own money for the Frogmore renovations, they should absolutely be reimbursed, assuming it's true they're being turfed out.