Where in the World is Doug Phillips? Part 13

[Columbia]

2 hours ago, bea said:

Has anybody in that circle ever SAID anything about it?  About VF falling apart and DPIAT and Beall slinking into the shadows and abandoning all VF ever stood for without so much as a complaint?

Not really. If you search “Doug Phillips” on Sermon Audio there are a handful of sermons from right after the scandal that I’m assuming are handwringing and “but for the grace of God, there go I.” Kevin Swanson had a podcast a year or so ago that was mostly him still being shocked and grieved about DPIAT’s downfall, and somehow also completely oblivious as to how it could have happened. The other big shot men who were involved (Geoff Botkin, Scott Brown, RC Sproul, Jr., Voddie Baucham) have been as silent as the grave.  
 

The only people I’ve seen actually go deeper and examine how what VF taught could have easily led to its demise are the grown children of VF families, especially girls who managed to escape, and most of that is on Twitter. Though I just remembered that Carmon Friedrich eventually saw the light and got out, too. She used to be a pretty prominent name in VF conferences. I think she’s the one who wrote the “Prairie Muffin Manifesto” and she may have been in the “Monstrous Regiment of Women” documentary that VF produced. She was interviewed in a podcast a few years ago that I thought was interesting. 

[Howl]

3 hours ago, bea said:

Kind of makes you wonder if they ever really adhered to the VF way - they did SOTDRT, but the whole hierarchy man-in-charge thing seems like it might not have been more performative than anything else.

Beall and the 8 kids were deeply, deeply into patriarchy and quiverfull.  They had 8 kids!  Doug loved it because he was in control and at the center of all attention, so the  patriarchy paradigm was just right for him.  Beall was a queen bee. 

Anyway,  the shit hit the fan, Leininger kicked them out of the big house, Beall and kids moved to Durango, Doug came out as just absolutely LOVING the flexible human form, dancing, dancers, and especially global gallivanting...the patriarchal family structure, including stay at home wife and stay at home daughters, disintegrated.  Beall began working, a few of the girls began working food service at a yogurt shop.  It seems ordinary, but a 180 turn for Beall and daughters. 

I've stated this before and I'll say it again: One of my pet peeves are these fundy people were adamant this was the way, preached it, sold it, lived it, sometimes made a fortune from it, and when it changed and all went to hell?  Crickets.  It could be so interesting to understand the transformation and possible growth. 

I'm talking about you, Beall, and you, Erika Shupe, and all the  rest. I mean bloody hell, Erika "Homeschool Forever!!!!!" Shupe sent her kids to PUBLIC SCHOOL after proclaiming forever that she would never, ever, ever send her bazillion kids there and you were a bad parent if you did. 

[MamaJunebug]

Adding to @Howl’s masterful recap: During the Colorado years, at least one of the Phillips maidens sold her blood plasma.  Patriarch Doug was dancing in the European streets with his burlesque movie subjects.  

[hoipolloi]

7 hours ago, bea said:

Has anybody in that circle ever SAID anything about it? 

Very few of them have ever said anything, let alone acknowledged how damaging it all was.

[Howl]

7 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Very few of them have ever said anything, let alone acknowledged how damaging it all was.

Young and 30-ish year old women who are deconstructing and becoming ex-vangelicals are definitely starting to speak out on the toxic belief system and the damage done.  Some exvangelicals are not necessarily leaving Christian belief and commitment to Jesus  behind,  but fundamentalism and patriarchy are being left in a cloud of dust in the rear-view mirror.  Sometimes family estrangement follows, sometimes not. 

[Hane]

@Howl, they pop up all over YouTube. Ex-Fundie Diaries is one who comes to mind.

[Howl]

9 minutes ago, Hane said:

@Howl, they pop up all over YouTube. Ex-Fundie Diaries is one who comes to mind.

I'll check that out! I'm so used to following Twitter I forget about other sources.

[Hane]

11 minutes ago, Howl said:

I'll check that out! I'm so used to following Twitter I forget about other sources.

A more broad-based one is Cults to Consciousness.

[Nolongeroppressed8.4]

On 1/23/2023 at 7:29 PM, hoipolloi said:

Darnell was probably the worst of the VF fanboyz, and thatʻs saying something. 

The Wayback Machine link to Darnell's defunct blog, Persevero, is interesting, disgusting though it is. The linked post, written in the aftermath of the Fall of The Tool & the exposure of Gothard sexual abuse, weasels its way through a discussion on how sexual predation in fundamentalist Christian settings should be handled. 

Admiring commenters include Bret Smith and James Pennington.

 

Nathaniel Darnell openly and repeatedly and very loudly demanded that any Christian who “reveled” in the “gossip” about Gothard and Phillips was being used by Satan to bring detriment to God. Multiple sources can corroborate. He also stood in a (home)church group and said that women who get assaulted are always asking for it. Way back Machine has quite a hot mess of Natty D’s crap views on quite a lot of matters. I have more stories. I just can’t hardly type them out without gagging. 

On 1/24/2023 at 2:15 PM, Columbia said:

I saw him throwing that around on Twitter a few days ago.
 

ETA: oh snap. Does anyone know about this?

 

BULLSH—! Dozens can corroborate he DID defend DP. And after he was fired from VF and sent home in shame to his family where he proceeded to grift everyone he could with a pilot show of his book — geared for 9-12 year old boys with drinking, smoking, and blood in the first 5 minutes. Hilarious considering his background, upbringing, and target market. 

On 1/24/2023 at 3:14 PM, hoipolloi said:

Didnʻt know about these recent Twitter comments but Iʻm glad to see that even other conservatives have a problem with the vile Darnell. 

ETA: Well, well, well. Stealing mailing lists -- who taught Darnell how to do that?

Doug Phillips got started with VF BY STEALING THE HSLDA MAILING LIST. 

[Nolongeroppressed8.4]

On 1/30/2023 at 10:32 PM, Columbia said:

I just had this horrible realization that based on this criteria for proving guilt Natty here could watch a child be molested and… do nothing. Because why speak if there’s no second witness? The point of telling someone about that sort of thing is to stop the perpetrator by proving his guilt, but if there’s no second witness, then why bother? It might even be a sin for him to speak and try to prove guilt without a second witness. And if he assaulted the predator he might get in trouble himself because there’s no second witness to justify his actions.  It also means that if Natty *is* the second witness the victim is at his mercy regarding whether or not he speaks. If he chooses not to, the victim has no recourse. 
 

I don’t know why this just now occurred to me, but it’s completely chilled my blood. I hope someone in his church is keeping an eye on him. 

He attends a church over an hour from his home … why? Plenty of others similar closer. I fully believe he lives in a way in which accountability would be nearly impossible to obtain.

[Nolongeroppressed8.4]

On 5/11/2023 at 10:55 AM, ptm6114 said:

Appreciate the information. Concerns for the child of Jeffrey being around the Phillips has been brought up. The mother is adamant that Liberty nor her family are to be around the child because of what happened with Lourdes and Liberty's stance on what her father did. Apparently Liberty believes Lourdes only did what she did “for the money.” However, I did read though the court documents and I found one piece of information very disturbing: Doug was 100% caught outside of this woman’s bedroom window, by her father and brother—past midnight. Curious if this has been discussed previously. To me, that screams he is guilty considering she told him to leave her alone. 
 

I think it’s funny he constantly posts about the Amber Heard/Johnny Depp trial. Uh, was Johnny Depp caught outside Amber’s bedroom window?!

No this is true. 
Lourdes left Doug’s house and went home to her father’s and he was climbing up the gutter of the house in the wee hours trying to get her back when her brother thought it was an intruder and shot at him. 

On 5/16/2023 at 2:02 PM, NCLunaLovegoodFan said:

I wonder if this means that they live with his parents

No they live around the corner. Not kidding. Ok. A mile away. Ha

On 5/16/2023 at 2:38 PM, JermajestyDuggar said:

Just imagine living with Natty and his parents. What hell that must be.

You. Have. No. Idea. 
 

…….

[NCLunaLovegoodFan]

11 hours ago, Nolongeroppressed8.4 said:

No this is true. 
Lourdes left Doug’s house and went home to her father’s and he was climbing up the gutter of the house in the wee hours trying to get her back when her brother thought it was an intruder and shot at him. 

No they live around the corner. Not kidding. Ok. A mile away. Ha

You. Have. No. Idea. 
 

…….

Would it be that same property in his wife’s name? If so, Natty lied to the election board about that being a rental. 

[ptm6114]

23 hours ago, Nolongeroppressed8.4 said:

No this is true. 
Lourdes left Doug’s house and went home to her father’s and he was climbing up the gutter of the house in the wee hours trying to get her back when her brother thought it was an intruder and shot him.

Wow!!! Wow. What an absolute piece of garbage! And he carries on as if he’s the victim. Doug is a coward and a hypocrite. 

[Columbia]

52 minutes ago, ptm6114 said:

Wow!!! Wow. What an absolute piece of garbage! And he carries on as if he’s the victim. Doug is a coward and a hypocrite. 

It seems he might be a little nervous about Shiny, Happy People 2.0. 
 

[ptm6114]

2 hours ago, Columbia said:

It seems he might be a little nervous about Shiny, Happy People 2.0. 
 

Heck yeah!!! Also “spreading hatred for others?” But it’s okay for Dougie P to spread hatred towards trans people? Disgusting. Boy, you are something special. 

[Howl]

7 hours ago, Columbia said:

"False accusation has become an industry" and the sentence that follows is a logical fallacy of some sort; I can't characterize which one at 6 am. 

This statement is so utterly repellent and if it causes even ONE victim to be disregarded, it's f**king criminal. 

 

[hoipolloi]

1 hour ago, Howl said:

"False accusation has become an industry" and the sentence that follows is a logical fallacy of some sort

So typical -- Doug Phillips lied, bullied people, and spread hatred for many years making serious bank while doing so.

 

[Nolongeroppressed8.4]

10 hours ago, Columbia said:

It seems he might be a little nervous about Shiny, Happy People 2.0. 
 

Remember we must never GOSSIP….aka tell the world we’ve been abused/molested/raped/shamed/traumatized/assaulted…..

Edited June 12, 2023 by Nolongeroppressed8.4

[hoipolloi]

And the DARVO just keeps coming over at the VF FB page. Didn't think it would take Dougie long to defend Trump.

Also typical of Doug Phillips: he kisses the ass of traitors like Trump while amplifying the cosplay "patriotism" of his daughter's junkets to Normandy.

As for hidden corruption, Dougie, takes one to know one, doesn't it? 

[Columbia]

His unquestioning support of Trump, combined with his unquestioning support of Ukraine keeps giving me whiplash. It’s probably giving a lot of his former supporters whiplash too, in a different manner. 

[Nolongeroppressed8.4]

On 6/10/2023 at 1:20 PM, Columbia said:

Not really. If you search “Doug Phillips” on Sermon Audio there are a handful of sermons from right after the scandal that I’m assuming are handwringing and “but for the grace of God, there go I.” Kevin Swanson had a podcast a year or so ago that was mostly him still being shocked and grieved about DPIAT’s downfall, and somehow also completely oblivious as to how it could have happened. The other big shot men who were involved (Geoff Botkin, Scott Brown, RC Sproul, Jr., Voddie Baucham) have been as silent as the grave.  
 

The only people I’ve seen actually go deeper and examine how what VF taught could have easily led to its demise are the grown children of VF families, especially girls who managed to escape, and most of that is on Twitter. Though I just remembered that Carmon Friedrich eventually saw the light and got out, too. She used to be a pretty prominent name in VF conferences. I think she’s the one who wrote the “Prairie Muffin Manifesto” and she may have been in the “Monstrous Regiment of Women” documentary that VF produced. She was interviewed in a podcast a few years ago that I thought was interesting. 

Worse than silent as the grave — these giants were BFF’s with him, speaking at each others’ conferences and selling each others’ stuff and then after it was over — not a peep. As if they never heard of him. As if they weren’t nearly sharing hotel rooms on a monthly basis. It’s sick to me. Hypocrisy. 

[Howl]

Scottie Brown seems to be the only one who keeps on keeping on with the Family Integrated Church dealio. 

The Church & Family Life website clarifies that it's not a denomination.  They have regional coordinators and are trying to link various similar believing churches in each region to each other.  Scottie B. says it's more important that your church be Gospel centered then family integrated so that's a BIG change.  There are also a bazillion disclaimers about how a church can end up on their list and not necessarily be a good church. 

For example, the guy who coordinates Texas, NM, OK,  AR and lives about 30 miles from me and has 16 kids, 15 grandkids, heads FORGE (Families Obediently Restoring Godly Education) homeschool group, practices open-air God bothering, and so forth. 

[hoipolloi]

Scottie Brown is certainly singing a different tune these days. Nonetheless, he and many of his fellow travelers have never addressed their former slavish devotion to Doug Phillips and VF. Thinking here particularly of the alleged men of the cloth like Scottie and Voddie Baucham as well as erstwhile sycophants like Matt and Jennie Chancey, James and Stacy McDonald, and of course Geoff Botkin.

I guess once the VF gravy train of pseudo-conferences, junkets, and catalogs filled with grossly over-priced products came to a grinding halt, they all jumped off and ran into the bushes, only to emerge with amnesia and reinvented lives.

 

[Columbia]

Is it just me, or has the “After” Vision Forum page completely disappeared from Facebook?

[ptm6114]

6 hours ago, Columbia said:

Is it just me, or has the “After” Vision Forum page completely disappeared from Facebook?

It seems to still be up. I believe they block anyone who comments against them.