Harry & Meghan 11: She's a Scarab Beetle

[Jackie3]

 

Meghan had a full, rich life before Harry--a gilded life, actually--full of success that she achieved through her own hard work.  She traveled internationally -- even Suits took her to Canada--and saw the world. She dated, had a wide group of friends, earned her own money, raised money for charity and the causes she cared about.

Kate, in contrast, was good looking. And that's about it. She used that to move from one dependency (her parents) to another (the British taxpayer). It's sad that she never had the satisfaction of knowing she could support herself. 

I doubt Meghan was wishing she was Diana,  who was locked away in a damp castle with a man who didn't love her. As Diana herself said, "any sane person would have left" but she felt she couldn't, because of her sons. I wonder why she couldn't pack up and leave and take her sons with her? Anyhow, I don't think Meghan was envying that life.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Jackie3

[AmazonGrace]

I completely agree, Jackie, Meghan was crazy to give up her previous enchanted life and hook up with the dysfunctional family who enslaved a tortured princess.  She could have had more fun and volunteered to more useful projects without Harry and his royal cloud of misery. 

But don't be too harsh on her, as love pulls bad tricks on all  of us and at least she got a podcast out of it 

If it comes to a head I hope she can get out with her kids and won't feel trapped like Diana.  

[tabitha2]

On a serious note there  are some Royal families in which in case of divorce the Royal spouse gets full custody. The non Royal spouse has to legally agree before marriage. I don’t know if this happens in the BRF though.

[EmCatlyn]

From what I see in the news, Meghan and Harry are doing interesting things that we can either applaud or critique or just report.  (I don’t understand why I am seeing posts about what Kate did or didn’t do before her marriage.)

I saw one report that said that Harry looked self-conscious and uncomfortable at an event whereas Meghan was extremely comfortable and gave a great speech.  That surprises me not one bit because Meghan is an actress by choice (comfortable performing) while Harry seems to have a mixed reaction to being in the public eye.

It’s not uncommon in a marriage for one partner to be more comfortable in the limelight than the other.  No snark intended here.  

[Jackie3]

My goodness, what a fantastic, warm reception M&H got in Germany! That must make them feel great.

49 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

I completely agree, Jackie, Meghan was crazy to give up her previous enchanted life and hook up with the dysfunctional family who enslaved a tortured princess.  She could have had more fun and volunteered to more useful projects without Harry and his royal cloud of misery. 

But don't be too harsh on her, as love pulls bad tricks on all  of us and at least she got a podcast out of it 

If it comes to a head I hope she can get out with her kids and won't feel trapped like Diana.  

I know. She is really the one who lost the most by this marriage. Harry is lucky to have her. 

 

[just_ordinary]

@EmCatlyn True. But he most definitely did a better job at hiding his discomfort in the past and appeared to be a cheeky, flirty, fun, relaxed and easy going young man. This might have been a facade. His paranoia about bad press and security might make it harder for him to find any joy in it nowadays. But I would expect him to fake it better at least a bit. That’s just part of the job. 

[prayawaythefundie]

2 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

On a serious note there  are some Royal families in which in case of divorce the Royal spouse gets full custody. The non Royal spouse has to legally agree before marriage. I don’t know if this happens in the BRF though.

Members of the BRF are said to not have any prenuptial agreements as a matter of principle. Hence the costly divorce for Charles. Whether this still applies to the younger generation, I don‘t know. 

[tabitha2]

When that much money and press is involved it’s only practical to have a prenuptial  to protect both sides and be aware of what’s exactly what’s stake.  The future monarch can’t be permanently removed from the country, no tell all books, etc. 

[louisa05]

18 hours ago, tabitha2 said:

 

There are many thousands teenagers volunteering for their communities, non profits and just ordinary people who need help every single day in this country and probably other countries at any given time so Meghan is not extraordinary in that regard either. I know  a lot of young people who help in impoverished communities. Laudable but not rare. 

 

But Kate was busy as well.

 

She graduated with honors in her chosen course of study. 

Studied at the British institute in Florence 

She travelled to Chile with William for The Raleigh international program. 

Studied Psychology for before Deciding on An art major.

Raised Funds for UNICEF by organizing a photography exhibition…

 

*She was not in the same group as William for the gap year Chile thing. 
 

I’m so over the “Kate was waiting around for William” thing. Maybe William was waiting around for her. Maybe they had agreed to wait around together. We actually do know that the latter was the case once they got back together after breaking up in 2007. Painting it solely as her waiting for a proposal is pure misogyny. 
 

 

[AmazonGrace]

JMO anyone of any sense in any royal succession would wait to marry until everyone concerned is old enough to know better. 

So to speak.

I mean,  marrying someone older is no guarantee that it will work out happily but marrying some sweet naive nineteen-year-old with stars in their eyes who has no idea what they're getting into when they hop on the royal train would be just criminal.

[louisa05]

4 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

JMO anyone of any sense in any royal succession would wait to marry until everyone concerned is old enough to know better. 

So to speak.

I mean,  marrying someone older is no guarantee that it will work out happily but marrying some sweet naive nineteen-year-old with stars in their eyes who has no idea what they're getting into when they hop on the royal train would be just criminal.

The consensus from legitimate biographers has been that William wanted to be sure his marriage would last and they both wanted time together without the obligations of Kate taking on royal duties and adjusting to that world. That's why when they decided they would marry around 2008, they still waited another three years. 

[catlady]

I think many of us are wondering just how our beloved Jackie3 knows so fucking much about what M and K did and did not do while they were in their teens and twenties, and I figured it out!  J is a teleporter!  There you go, Jackie3; another feather to stick in your cap of supreme awesomeness!

J was able to zap across the Atlantic multiple times per day throughout the 90s and 00s to hang with her bestie MM every.single.day. and keep track of how selflessly spectacular M was (you know, nearly as spectacular as our esteemed J herself!!!), while SIMULTANEOUSLY traipsing through the UK in order to keep track of all the dirt on K!  The mooning! The laziness!  The waiting for her Prince Charming!  For shame!! 

yep, Jackie3, you ARE the BEST!!!!!  Where the everloving hell would we be without your fabulousness?!? You out-fab even David Waller!!   And this is why I love love love you so fucking much!!!!!!💖💕💜💙❤️💚💖✨💜!!!!!!

Edited September 7, 2022 by catlady
Fixing typos, because Jackie3 deserves that !!

[AmazonGrace]

3 minutes ago, louisa05 said:

The consensus from legitimate biographers has been that William wanted to be sure his marriage would last and they both wanted time together without the obligations of Kate taking on royal duties and adjusting to that world. That's why when they decided they would marry around 2008, they still waited another three years. 

Yeah it makes sense to me considering Charles and Diana's example. When Diana got married she was 20 and it was obviously a disaster... Charles was in his thirties and his age didn't help because he married the wrong person for the wrong reasons... but if Diana had waited she might have wised up and realized he wasn't such a prize or figured out that he was into somebody else.

So I think it's a good idea to wait and date first. Give them time to get to know you and the royal shitshow you're going to tag them onto. Give them time to realize it's not worth it for the pretty dresses and the fame if they hate your guts.  Or at least time to  make  an informed choice. "Yeah I hate his guts and his liver too, and all the inlaws are witches, but on the positive side, no vacuuming, I get to cut ribbons and never have to wear the same coat twice so it all balances out."

Anyway, a three-year engagement sounds just, well, normal and unremarkable to me. We are total nobodies and our wedding was not a mega production and even so, I was engaged to Mr. Grace for three and a half years and dated him for a year before getting engaged so I am of the school of thought that waiting to get married is a pretty ordinary thing that pretty decent people may do without any ill intentions.

 

[viii]

I think William was always going to be cautious when it came to marriage, due to his parents. However, I do think there are enough credible reports that indicate when they broke up in 2007, he tried to find other girls of nobility but none of them wanted to sign up for a lifetime of royal duty. That's when he went back to Kate and they decided that they'd get married eventually. I think that's where the stories of Kate "waiting" came from because William tried to find a different spouse but in the end, slunk back to Kate who was waiting faithfully for him to wake up and realize what he had~. 

Also - there is a difference between waiting to marry and waiting for ten years. That was a ridiculous amount of time. If you don't know for sure after three years, then it's likely not the right relationship for you. Ten years of dating just seems excessive, regardless of your place in life. 

(And really, we should call him Waity Willy as much as Kate but that's the same as the whole Megxit title - it's far more fun to pin the majority of blame on the women.)

Edited September 7, 2022 by viii

[nokidsmom]

30 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

Yeah it makes sense to me considering Charles and Diana's example. When Diana got married she was 20 and it was obviously a disaster... Charles was in his thirties and his age didn't help because he married the wrong person for the wrong reasons... but if Diana had waited she might have wised up and realized he wasn't such a prize or figured out that he was into somebody else.

Also William experienced firsthand all the turmoil and negative publiclty surrounding the breakdown of his parents' marriage, seeing just what happens when the heir to the throne goes through a divorce.   As the next heir, he didn't want that on himself either.  So it made sense that he was taking his time and I got the sense even back then that he was being very, very cautious.

[just_ordinary]

1 hour ago, viii said:

I think William was always going to be cautious when it came to marriage, due to his parents. However, I do think there are enough credible reports that indicate when they broke up in 2007, he tried to find other girls of nobility but none of them wanted to sign up for a lifetime of royal duty. That's when he went back to Kate and they decided that they'd get married eventually. I think that's where the stories of Kate "waiting" came from because William tried to find a different spouse but in the end, slunk back to Kate who was waiting faithfully for him to wake up and realize what he had~. 

Also - there is a difference between waiting to marry and waiting for ten years. That was a ridiculous amount of time. If you don't know for sure after three years, then it's likely not the right relationship for you. Ten years of dating just seems excessive, regardless of your place in life. 

(And really, we should call him Waity Willy as much as Kate but that's the same as the whole Megxit title - it's far more fun to pin the majority of blame on the women.)

I strongly disagree. They got together at university in their early twenties. In some countries getting engaged at this point in your life after three years might be normal but I wound strongly argue that’s not the case in the UK (and many other countries). Many if not most couples would wait till they got jobs in the same area, moved in together if that hadn’t happened yet and are nearer thirty. There is also a strong correlation of higher educated and being later on the marriage/children path. Being together for ten years before this step is not eyebrow worthy at all. You can also have a good idea of something leading to marriage without going for it straight away. Marriage is also no requirement for a happy, healthy and lasting relationship. And many don’t actually think about it till the question of investing in property together or children come up (which also is often around end of twenties to mid thirties). I agree though that after ten years you should have a good idea if you think this is the person you would like to spent your life with. On the other hand- being in a monogamous relationship in your twenties can definitely bring a crisis of “missing out”/“was that it?” W&K are actually shockingly normal in that regard.
What would be eyebrow worthy is if he just took her as second best. But I wonder why he would have spent almost ten years with her without ever taking it serious. That seems to be a lot of unnecessary extra pressure and work. - I get waking up and realising someone is not the partner you want. Or wondering what or who else is out there only to realise you had the right person all along. But having a more or less public relationship for years with the idea of just quickly marrying someone else is more deluded than I can see him to be. There might be a lot of calculations in their marriage but I do think they like each other well enough to be content in their situation. We see so little of their real personalities it’s hard to get a good idea. And with both families bring completely quiet about all the rumours around them most guesses are just that. There was one confirmed break up. He had a couple of girlfriends before Kate (even though I wouldn’t call going out for just 6-7 weeks a serious relationship if you aren’t 14 anymore) and a lot is still speculation like his alleged crush of Jecca (I don’t think they ever dated, but I can get behind idea because that’s not really uncommon). So most is rumours and speculation. There are so many crazy stories where you wonder why anyone thinks we would know about it or that are as stupid as the moon bump (like that her parents put them in their bedroom. As if that would save a relationship? If anything it would make one run. That’s just ewwww).

[louisa05]

The stories of her mother manipulating the relationship are a special blend of misogyny and classism. And the W broke up with her to look for a suitable titled bride are also classism. There’s no evidence for either. I find it interesting that there is plenty of evidence that M was in the UK hunting for a wealthy husband but it’s Kate who married her college boyfriend which many people do who is demonized as hunting down W and trapping him. And frankly from what we do know about W, I doubt anyone could trap him. 

[AmazonGrace]

How would you even go about trapping a man into marriage in the 21st century?   It didn't look like Kate  was pregnant at the wedding and I didn't see anyone threatening him with a shotgun. With what would you bribe a prince who already has everything?  Blackmail? "You marry me or else everyone finds out that you're going bald. Oh wait, everyone knows. " 

 

[viii]

I agree that I don't think William was trapped in the slightest. He has proven to be extremely cautious and he's not afraid to cut people out of his life who betray him. I think the fact that Kate, even after all these years of dating, was silent and never once spoke to the media about their relationship - even after the breakup - was the tipping factor in her direction. She (and her family) are obviously people that he feels like he can trust, he feels comfortable with, and then probably brought a lot of normalcy to his life. 

I agree that saying Ma Middleton manipulated him is classism but I do think that William was pressured to look around his own circles but wasn't able to find anyone either a) he wanted to spend a lifetime with or b) wanted to sign up for royal duty. The whole idea of the monarchy is classism, let's be real here, and for the past hundreds of years, maintaining the illusion has been the royal family's motto. It's only recently that they push the 'we're just like you!' angle because they want to be relatable. But for YEARS the whole very point of the royal monarchy was 'we are better than you'. 

[Jackie3]

From today's Express:

Quote

The Duke and Duchess of Sussex received a town hall reception and a boat cruise on the Rhine. Although they are private citizens, the Sussexes were treated like heads of state.

Sounds like a fun trip, and they are being treated like honored guests.

Still doing amazingly. She's neck and neck with Joe. A huge success.

[Jackie3]

3 hours ago, viii said:

(And really, we should call him Waity Willy as much as Kate but that's the same as the whole Megxit title - it's far more fun to pin the majority of blame on the women.)

She's Waity-Katie because she waited. And waited.

She had nothing else going on.

Most women  I know would have moved on, they have jobs, interests, goals beyond waiting for one man to propose. Kate stands out among women for her determination to Wait.

[viii]

31 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

She's Waity-Katie because she waited. And waited.

She had nothing else going on.

The very same could be said of William, though. He didn't publicly date anybody else during their 10 year relationship (even though the split). It's rumored that he was pressured to find a new girlfriend from nobility circles but that's not confirmed. For all we know, William waited for Kate just as much as she waited for him, and he had even less going on. 

[tabitha2]

And look what she got. A seemingly happy secure non dramatic marriage* three healthy happy kids, huge approval ratings and In a few years she will be the second most influential  non elected women in the country.
 

If the monarchy lasts She will be Queen consort and the Mother of a King in time and history won’t care if she didn’t work in the a yogurt shop  or was homecoming Queen.  It will see an intelligent women who came from a close family, did charity work,  went to a top school and received Honors and excellent grades and presumably Became a competent dutiful if non dynamic consort. 

 

If you want to wholeheartedly believe tabloid trash about sordid affairs that’s your stupidity and bias as There is absolutely no evidence of such. 

[viii]

15 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

If you want to wholeheartedly believe tabloid trash about sordid affairs that’s your stupidity and bias as There is absolutely no evidence of such. 

I wouldn't say believing tabloid trash about the affairs is stupidity. There were a LOT of rumors that plagued William in 2018 and I think where there is smoke, there's usually fire. Not all the time, but certainly a lot of the time. Perhaps William hasn't ever cheated, but he would certainly be in the minority then of royal princes who haven't had an affair. It's a pretty common occurrence in his circle (and his family tree). 

Edited September 7, 2022 by viii

[louisa05]

25 minutes ago, viii said:

The very same could be said of William, though. He didn't publicly date anybody else during their 10 year relationship (even though the split). It's rumored that he was pressured to find a new girlfriend from nobility circles but that's not confirmed. For all we know, William waited for Kate just as much as she waited for him, and he had even less going on. 

Awhile back, someone told Catherine at an engagement that she was lucky to have William. She said, "he's lucky to have me". So perhaps he was the one waiting.