Harry & Meghan 11: She's a Scarab Beetle

[viii]

1 minute ago, louisa05 said:

Awhile back, someone told Catherine at an engagement that she was lucky to have William. She said, "he's lucky to have me". So perhaps he was the one waiting. 

Very well could be. In any case, I think it's true that he's far luckier to have her than her to have him. He comes with a lot more baggage than she does, even if a crown is part of it. 

[tabitha2]

Do you believe William is into Kinky Sex as well?  Camilla is a Drunk? That Bosnian Mercenaries killed Diana?  That was all the tabloids or tabloid websites  at one time or another after all and there are rumors…

[viii]

20 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Do you believe William is into Kinky Sex as well?  Camilla is a Drunk? That Bosnian Mercenaries killed Diana?  That was all the tabloids or tabloid websites  at one time or another after all and there are rumors…

- for Kate's sake, I hope so

- y'know, I think Camilla probably DOES enjoy a boozy drink a lot of the time

- nah, drunk driving killed Diana

[EmCatlyn]

15 hours ago, prayawaythefundie said:

Members of the BRF are said to not have any prenuptial agreements as a matter of principle. Hence the costly divorce for Charles. Whether this still applies to the younger generation, I don‘t know. 

I don’t think that any restrictions on custody of kids would fall under “prenuptial agreements” but could just be part of the law, just as the monarch couldn’t marry a Catholic until a couple of years ago.  I would bet that if Diana had decided to move to California (as some people have claimed that she contemplated), she would have encountered limits on how much of the year the boys could spend with her over there.

The situation with Harry and Meghan is different because he is no longer 3rd in line, but I bet Elizabeth and Charles occasionally worry that if the helicopter holding all the Cambridges crashes, Harry will be second in line and Archie will be the future King and what kind of preparation is he getting for it.

[tabitha2]

That’s why there is a very sensible rule that the direct heirs should not travel together. But The Cambridges seem to be ignoring that one. 

[samurai_sarah]

@Jackie3 Have you ever been to the UK?

[EmCatlyn]

5 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

Yeah it makes sense to me considering Charles and Diana's example. When Diana got married she was 20 and it was obviously a disaster... Charles was in his thirties and his age didn't help because he married the wrong person for the wrong reasons... but if Diana had waited she might have wised up and realized he wasn't such a prize or figured out that he was into somebody else.

So I think it's a good idea to wait and date first. Give them time to get to know you and the royal shitshow you're going to tag them onto. Give them time to realize it's not worth it for the pretty dresses and the fame if they hate your guts.  Or at least time to  make  an informed choice. "Yeah I hate his guts and his liver too, and all the inlaws are witches, but on the positive side, no vacuuming, I get to cut ribbons and never have to wear the same coat twice so it all balances out."

Anyway, a three-year engagement sounds just, well, normal and unremarkable to me. We are total nobodies and our wedding was not a mega production and even so, I was engaged to Mr. Grace for three and a half years and dated him for a year before getting engaged so I am of the school of thought that waiting to get married is a pretty ordinary thing that pretty decent people may do without any ill intentions.

 

The situation with Diana seems to have been the result of a series of misunderstandings and stupidity on everyone’s part.

1. For some reason, it was believed that Charles could only marry a virgin.  This made it increasingly difficult for him to find someone his own age once he was past 22 or 23.

2. Charles became interested in Diana as a result of the sympathy she showed when they talked shortly after Mountbatten’s death.  He was just a little interested— she was cute, cheerful, sympathetic.  But they didn’t get a chance to explore that interest.

3. Diana was a romantic kid who was flattered to have Charles pay attention to her.  She didn’t get to know him before or after he proposed.  She seems to have fluctuated between fantasies that her fairytale marriage would fill the emotional emptiness in her life caused by her parents’ divorce and terror at what she was getting into. No one seems to have tried to slow things down to protect her.

4. Prince Phillip, who subscribed to the old-fashioned idea that a lady could be hurt by being “talked about,” advised Charles to propose or stop courting Diana.  Because his communication with his son was so poor, Charles thought his father was telling him to propose.  And though he had doubts, he proposed.

5. The Windsors (beginning with Charles) seem to have mistakenly believed that Diana was aware that hers was a marriage of convenience, that she realized Charles was proposing because he liked her and thought he was suitable, not because he was in love.  I find it telling that part of his proposal made a point of mentioning that she would be queen.  He wasn’t offering her romantic love. He was offering her status.  (A slightly more worldly Diana might have realized this.  What I think is appalling is that her family should have told her.)

6. I think her father, stepmother and mother were so thrilled that Diana would be Princess of Wales that Diana got no sensible advice or support.  When, shortly before the wedding, Diana got cold feet, her sister told her it was too late. (To be fair, I might have also, if I thought it was just cold feet, but I would have tried to talk sense to her as soon as the engagement was discussed.)

7. Diana wanted to be nurtured and protected.  Charles wanted to be nurtured and protected.  Neither one of them was ready to forgive the other’s weaknesses.  Even if there had been no Camilla, the marriage would not have worked out because they were both needy but not in complementary ways.

8. Charles got a neurotic, insecure child with whom he couldn’t share any interests.  Diana got a neurotic, somewhat self-pitying adult who had no patience and didn’t share any of her interests.

9. The world wanted a fairy tale marriage and for a while they were trapped in the pretense while each became angrier.  

[catlady]

3 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

She's Waity-Katie because she waited. And waited.

She had nothing else going on.

 

Re: the non-bolded—I guess we’re all Waity Katies around here because we’re waiting for you to say something intelligent.  Just kidding, sweetheart, I still love the fuck out of you!💖💕💖💖💕

Re:  the bolded—I guess you’re a Waity Katie because you…….  LOLZ, I still love you, honey!❤️💜💙💚

57 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

@Jackie3 Have you ever been to the UK?

YES!  We already established that she’s a teleporter.

[prayawaythefundie]

7 hours ago, viii said:

There were a LOT of rumors that plagued William in 2018 and I think where there is smoke, there's usually fire.

Actually, there was one rumour which has just been repeated multiple times. It gained traction trough a tweet from Giles Coren (who seems to be involved in quite a lot of controversies and is not what I would call a reliable source). He has since revoked his original statement. So pick the time he lied but he certainly did in one of two instances. 

Apart from that „smoke“ there has been absolutely no evidence presented for an affair.

[Jackie3]

8 hours ago, viii said:

The very same could be said of William, though. He didn't publicly date anybody else during their 10 year relationship (even though the split). It's rumored that he was pressured to find a new girlfriend from nobility circles but that's not confirmed. For all we know, William waited for Kate just as much as she waited for him, and he had even less going on. 

You believe William was waiting for Kate to propose? 

William wasn't walking around in see-through clothes to attract Kate. He didn't abandon all work and activities to wait for Kate to take him on hoiday. He actually accomplished things in his 20's, become an air ambulance pilot and joining the RAF, among other things.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Jackie3

[just_ordinary]

9 hours ago, viii said:

I wouldn't say believing tabloid trash about the affairs is stupidity. There were a LOT of rumors that plagued William in 2018 and I think where there is smoke, there's usually fire. Not all the time, but certainly a lot of the time. Perhaps William hasn't ever cheated, but he would certainly be in the minority then of royal princes who haven't had an affair. It's a pretty common occurrence in his circle (and his family tree). 

I have a big problem with both ideas. Having an affair -which means an ongoing second relationship next to your marriage is not more or less common in aristocratic circles than for normal people. At least nowadays. The way of dealing with this fact might have been different in the past (especially when marriage was still part business merger or at least practical arguments and social expectations played a bigger role) but do you really think the ordinary husbands in the 60s or 80s didn’t step out just as much? And enough women put up with affairs of their husbands. The current “young” (I really mean the 30-40 lot) aristocrats marry for love as well. But, just like with everyone else they mostly marry inside their social circle. They are subjects to the same sociological tendencies like everyone else. Women marrying “up” is still more common than men marrying “up” (the old professor and mechanic example). People mostly marry in the same class or with the same education level. Having an affair or ONS is extremely common through all classes but I highly doubt it’s still more acceptable for aristocrats than others in this millennia. 
I also don’t think where there is smoke is a good pointer if there is something to find. At least not anymore. It is terrifying how much conspiracy or just wrong information is out there. In the end it’s up to the individual to check the credibility of their sources (and if you come from a scientific background it’s also terrifying to see that many have no or crazy standards for this) and use knowledge from facts and common sense to come to a conclusion. 
That’s why I don’t think A&L are dolls or were carried by a surrogate. That’s why I don’t believe M was payed by some dark power to bring down the British monarchy. That’s why I don’t think K is using heroine. That’s why I don’t believe W had an ongoing affair - I can absolutely see a ONS though. Or a serious crush. Because those are also very ordinary and common things and an affair is much harder to hide. If it was common knowledge as Mr. Coren implied, others would have known. He is not part of W&K close friends. How far would the circle of people be that know about this if he was privy to this information? Staff would know. Mere acquaintances would know. And the press and not just the British press have snooped but couldn’t come up with anything. The hit on C&C when the accusations was out in the public eye. They would do the same with W. And the BRF might be able to stop the British press sometimes but not the rest. With such a big group of people knowing you just can’t crush it. Especially if they weren’t involved themselves (like all the people in the Eppstein horror) but just bystanders. People talk and people have a much easier time to talk if it doesn’t make themselves look bad. W also doesn’t strike me as a character that falls head over heels to maintain an affair. But that’s my personal impression not rooted in anything to prove it, if challenged.

 

@prayawaythefundie the Rose Huntington rumour is not the only one though. There was a time when the alleged crush on Jecca Craig was talked up into a full blown affair - especially after he missed Charlotte’s first Easter to fly to her wedding. And there are the photos and even a video I think of him getting a bit cozy on the dance floor.

[viii]

Yes, Rose is not the only affair he’s been accused of having. 

And I do think “common” people cheated as much, I just wasn’t talking about them. I was specifically talking about William and his family. His father cheated, his grandfather cheated, and they were not the first. Most royal men cheated. That’s all I was saying. 

[prayawaythefundie]

21 minutes ago, viii said:

His father cheated, his grandfather cheated, and they were not the first. Most royal men cheated. That’s all I was saying. 

William suffered heavily from his parents‘ affairs. I do believe that would make him think twice. He is known for wanting to protect his family. 
 

Out of curiousity: Are we sure that Philip cheated? Or was that a rumour used as a storyline on The Crown?

[samurai_sarah]

7 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

You believe William was waiting for Kate to propose? 

William wasn't walking around in see-through clothes to attract Kate. He didn't abandon all work and activities to wait for Kate to take him on hoiday. He actually accomplished things in his 20's, become an air ambulance pilot and joining the RAF, among other things.

It's possible to assume that William was waiting, while Kate made up her mind if she was ready to live with all the scrutiny and restrictions.

[viii]

9 minutes ago, prayawaythefundie said:

William suffered heavily from his parents‘ affairs. I do believe that would make him think twice. He is known for wanting to protect his family. 
 

Out of curiousity: Are we sure that Philip cheated? Or was that a rumour used as a storyline on The Crown?

You would think but humans repeat the sins of their parents all the time. You either repeat the vicious cycle or break it and it’s too soon with William to know which one it will be. 

And it was well known before the crown that Philip wasn’t faithful. There’s no solid proof but Philip had a strong reputation as a ladies man and he was romantically linked to a stage actress and there were also a lot of rumours surrounding Penny Knatchbull. I suppose like anything, if there’s smoke there’s typically fire, and in Prince Philip’s younger days he was often surrounded by a smoke haze lol. 

Edited September 8, 2022 by viii

[prayawaythefundie]

5 minutes ago, samurai_sarah said:

It's possible to assume that William was waiting, while Kate made up her mind if she was ready to live with all the scrutiny and restrictions.

That would fit in with what he said in their engagement interview about wanting to give her the opportunity to back out if she needed to. 

[tabitha2]

Maybe she thought the rewards were worth the drawbacks. Other than the obvious material benefits that chances to really make a difference and bring bring attention to causes and worthy organizations in all sorts of ways from environmental concerns to childhood illness to animal welfare are great and as well you can have your own special causes especially dear to you like Blindness(Sophie) or scoliosis(Eugenie).  

[EmCatlyn]

Looks like Harry and Meghan are going to see the Queen after all.  She has been taken ill and all the family is going to her side.  I am glad, for Harry’s sake, that he and Meghan were already in Europe and he doesn’t have to decide whether to make the trip now or not.  

[Jackie3]

2 hours ago, viii said:

And it was well known before the crown that Philip wasn’t faithful. There’s no solid proof but Philip had a strong reputation as a ladies man and he was romantically linked to a stage actress and there were also a lot of rumours surrounding Penny Knatchbull. I suppose like anything, if there’s smoke there’s typically fire, and in Prince Philip’s younger days he was often surrounded by a smoke haze lol. 

I think it must be very difficult, with the constant temptation. For both male and female royals.

[SoSoNosy]

I just read a British publication that said Meghan stayed in London.

[Lurking Lurker]

The queen died this afternoon. May she Rest In Peace. 
 

Edited September 8, 2022 by Lurking Lurker
Edited to remove snark to just be respectful.

[Jackie3]

5 hours ago, samurai_sarah said:

It's possible to assume that William was waiting, while Kate made up her mind if she was ready to live with all the scrutiny and restrictions.

She gave up her place at her first-choice college when it was revealed that William was going to St. Andrews.

She quickly applied to St. Andrews herself.

She took a gap year so she'd enter St. Andrews at the same time as Wills.

She chose a major in the same department.

She modified an outfit she was supposed to model, to be more "eye-catching," when she knew he was in the audience.After graduation, she didn't work so she was constantly available to go on holiday with him. 

Yes, I think she was ready, quite ready, "to live with all the scrutiny and restrictions."

(William, in contrast, said  he didn't want to be pressured to the altar, since he'd watched his parents marriage crumble.)

[TN-peach]

Serious non-snarky question - So Harry and Meghan are in the UK but the State funeral isn't supposed to happen for 10 days.  Do they keep their children at home in California or do they ask that their nanny or Doria fly with the kids to join them?  As a mom, I couldn't imagine going through this time of grief without being able to hug my children. 

 

(The last few days in Memphis has been really tough and I have been stealing as many hugs and snuggles from them as possible but I don't KNOW anyone that died.)

[viii]

I imagine that either Meghan will fly home to bring them to the UK or that they will stay in California. They're pretty young to attend the funeral, but they might want to have them close by in their grief, which is understandable. 

And since nothing changed, they have automatically become HRH Prince Archie and HRH Princess Lilibet today. 

[SoSoNosy]

TN-peach, I live in Olive Branch and my business is in Memphis.  This has indeed been a horrible week for our area, and this adds to it.

 

Going back to the endless complaints of the Troll... who the HELL cares what Kate's schedule or plot was?  Do you really think she was the only girl on campus who was trying to get William's attention??  I doubt she was the only girl on campus who changed university plans when they found out where he would be attending, or took a gap year to make sure she was there at the same time.  There can only be one person who attracts another person's ongoing attention, but I'll wager big odds she wasn't the only one trying.  Can this dead horse be buried now?