Natty Darnell's ex shares about their courtship on her podcast

[love2scrap]

https://directory.libsyn.com/episode/index/id/20595374/tdest_id/1860854

"A letter, written to Rachel's father, demanding her hand in marriage is a perfect example of spiritual abuse in a Christian courtship. Rachel relives her past anguish in this episode as she, along with Joe, read and comment on a real-life letter as an example of manipulation and narcissism."

Wtf.

Some points for the tl;dr -

Her dad did not like N (she refers to him as N in the podcast), so her mom was more involved in the courtship.

natty shouted at his mom until she broke down in tears..

Her parents disapproved of them holding hands

He insisted they get married within 2-3 mths from one of their last few meetings, her mom said it was not enough time to plan a wedding and he said why not, as it was enough time for him to plan a conference 🙄

After rachel broke up with him, he put HER family under HIS church discipline (?) 😂😂

After rachel broke up with him, he sent her dad a long waffling letter accusing her of opening up "intimacies" by talking to him as a potential future husband and says she does not have grounds to end the relationship. Scolds her parents for "allowing" their relationship to go "public" which supposedly misled him to believe they would get married. Ends the letter by demanding that they get married. Lame PS where he whines about his difficulty announcing the end of their courtship to his social circle.

He sounds like a fucking petty child. Rachel dodged a massive bullet.

Hope his wife listens to this podcast in secret 😂

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Rachel has talked about her relationship with him before on her podcast. It all seemed really bad from the start. He had another broken courtship with another girl before he finally found a girl willing to marry him. I hope his wife eventually leaves him. He sounds like a horrible person to be married to. 

[postscript]

My, he sounds like a real prize! No wonder so many women took a pass on being married to this gem. Sounds like a wife is just an object to him and it doesn’t matter who he marries as long as she’s properly submissive. Unfortunately, many of these young men seem to feel the same way (looking at you, TimRod). 

His wife just had a baby girl, right? One can only hope he learns something from having a daughter of his own and doesn’t perpetuate the abuse to another generation. I’m also rooting for his wife to wake up and leave this asshole. 

[Howl]

My gosh, this man is is a walking talking red flag in human skin bag form, screaming abuser, abuser, abuser.

There is nothing that indicates he understands ANYTHING about being a decent, regular, normal human being EVEN WITHIN  THE  PATRIARCHAL PARADIGM!

Gosh, I went all caps, BOLD and exclamation point, but that's how bad this guy is.   

Also, pretty thrilling that he's being called out very publicly for the scary whackadoo that he is.  It's the kind of thing that sends that type of guy over the edge. 

[NCLunaLovegoodFan]

7 minutes ago, Howl said:

Also, pretty thrilling that he's being called out very publicly for the scary whackadoo that he is.  It's the kind of thing that sends that type of guy over the edge. 

Which concerns me. Just as I’m worried about the younger Duggars still at home with JB reeling from an election loss and his pedo golden boy now in jail, I’m worried about Natty’s wife and little girl. But like Anna Duggar, she won’t leave him. I pray they don’t have many more children. 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I didn't know Natty had procreated! When? / name?

A girl  - with him for a father - how sad for her.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

40 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

I didn't know Natty had procreated! When? / name?

A girl  - with him for a father - how sad for her.  

It’s recent. I can’t remember if the name was released. He married a girl 15 years younger than him. I hope she grows up and sees what she’s gotten into. And leaves him with her daughter. I believe Natty’s brother was left by his wife too. I wouldn’t be surprised if he has some similarities to Natty. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[postscript]

Patience Hope for the baby (I had to go back to the new babies thread to confirm, but that kind of random info sticks in my head). Born some time in November. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 minutes ago, postscript said:

Patience Hope for the baby (I had to go back to the new babies thread to confirm, but that kind of random info sticks in my head). Born some time in November. 

I had forgotten. I’m sure all his children will have names like that. His next will probably be Steadfast Courage. Then Honorable Truth.

[postscript]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I had forgotten. I’m sure all his children will have names like that. His next will probably be Steadfast Courage. Then Honorable Truth.

Except for Natty Jr., the almighty firstborn son. But yes, I can see that. There will definitely be a Justice and a Liberty mixed in as well. 

[fundiefan]

We've always known he's an arrogant POS. It just so happens it's so extreme in him, new evidence pops up at every turn. I wonder how things went with his wife? Did he demand she marry him, to her parents? Did he have any tantrums to make it what he wants? How did she twist & contort to fit his unrealistic, narrow minded, misogynistic view of a wife? 

Dude has always made my skin crawl. Now the hair on the back of my neck stands up too. 

[DonutWench]

Holy shit! I listened to this podcast and didn't make the connection. Now that I know it was HIM I am going to need to listen again.

[Columbia]

1 hour ago, DonutWench said:

Holy shit! I listened to this podcast and didn't make the connection. Now that I know it was HIM I am going to need to listen again.

Me too! I didn’t even think of him. I hope whatever poor women have the misfortune to be stuck to him also have a support system to get out when the time comes. 

[Howl]

Could y'all let me know how old Nattie was when this courtship took place?

[older than allosaurs]

Rachel's family lives nearby -- I go by their place on the way to my grandson's soccer games -- and I used to follow her on Facebook. I've always identified with her as a fellow nerdy researcher type, though my preferred subject matter differs, a lot. Now I also identify with her as the recipient of bizarre narcissistic commentary from an ex. My former husband, after he divorced me, reviled me to all and sundry, including my parents, and then changed his mind and decided he wanted to get back together, sent long letters detailing the reasons I was (1) obligated to revive our marriage, (2) lucky he was still interested, and (3) in need of his guidance to live a worthy life. He also included lists of the times and ways he had been nice to me, and explained what I owed him in return. As an atheist, he skipped the biblical commentary, but the rest is eerily familiar in style and substance. There really is a narcissist playbook.

So glad Rachel saw the light in time and also found herself a reasonable human to marry. Hoping for the best for Natty's child bride.

[MamaJunebug]

@luv2scrap , many thanks for the lead.  Disturbing but ultimately hopeful, for the ex and all who listen. 
 

The ex’s husband referenced the story of his own father.  Anybody familiar with it? I’m just mildly curious- not enough to devote time to finding the podcast episode & listening to it. Guessing the dad is a control freak who wraps himself in religion. 

[older than allosaurs]

14 hours ago, MamaJunebug said:

@luv2scrap , many thanks for the lead.  Disturbing but ultimately hopeful, for the ex and all who listen. 
 

The ex’s husband referenced the story of his own father.  Anybody familiar with it? I’m just mildly curious- not enough to devote time to finding the podcast episode & listening to it. Guessing the dad is a control freak who wraps himself in religion. 

I listened to part of it. His dad is a pastor, who abused Joe (Rachel's husband) physically and emotionally and abused Joe's sister sexually. Joe has cut off contact with him, and when he and Rachel were planning to marry, the dad wrote a long, bonkers letter to Rachel and her parents warning them about Joe's sins and flaws.

Edited December 22, 2021 by older than allosaurs
clarity

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, older than allosaurs said:

I listened to part of it. His dad is a pastor, who abused Joe (Rachel's husband) physically and emotionally and abused Joe's sister sexually. Joe has cut off contact with him, and when he and Rachel were planning to marry, the dad wrote a long, bonkers letter to Rachel and her parents warning them about Joe's sins and flaws.

Oh my FSM. Thank you. I didn’t need to hear that discussion.  And now my admiration for Joe & Rachel is even greater.  Impressed that they’ve been able to separate their abusive histories from their honest faith in G_d.  

And that they seek to support others!  Good people. I hope N cleans up his act as a husband and father, but having seen his & Mrs. N’s late-pregnancy photo shoot , meh. Doubtful.

They are not touching in any photo. No hands held, no protective arms, no affectionate closeness. -*shudder*

[Howl]

Joe: "In authoritarian fundamentalism, emotional pain is the one where it is completely unacceptable. If I feel emotional pain, someone messed up. If I'm hurt emotionally, somebody sinned. It's wrong and I need to control them or change them or attack them or something." 

The section is super interesting because it goes over Nattie's lack of experience in what emotional intimacy and vulnerability entails and essentially, how Nattie's approach was to say, I can use fundamentalist legalism to protect me against emotional pain and humiliation.   Nattie employs all sorts of arguments to continue to INSIST that he be given what he perceived as promised to him in order to avoid rejection and any resulting emotional anguish. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by Howl

[fundiefan]

1 hour ago, MamaJunebug said:

They are not touching in any photo. No hands held, no protective arms, no affectionate closeness. -*shudder*

 

48 minutes ago, Howl said:

Joe: "In authoritarian fundamentalism, emotional pain is the one where it is completely unacceptable. If I feel emotional pain, someone messed up. If I'm hurt emotionally, somebody sinned. It's wrong and I need to control them or change them or attack them or something." 

The section is super interesting because it goes over Nattie's lack of experience in what emotional intimacy and vulnerability entails and essentially, how Nattie's approach was to say, I can use fundamentalist legalism to protect me against emotional pain and humiliation.   Nattie employs all sorts of arguments to continue to INSIST that he be given what he perceived as promised to him in order to avoid rejection and any resulting emotional anguish. 

Natty is not capable of emotions for others. He has himself on a pedestal so high & so guarded by bullet proof plastic that nothing can penetrate it, especially not genuine human emotions. To hold someone's hand, to caress their back, to put your arms around them is to tell another person they are special to you; they matter; they are relevant; they are important. Natty doesn't believe anyone is relevant to him. Others are there for him. 

On his FB page he has a meme about Chivalry saying it isn't dead, it just went where being ladylike went. That explains him in a nutshell. He isn't responsible for being chivalrous or not. Women (others) are responsible making it impossible for him to be chivalrous. 

Their wedding pictures do not show a couple in love with each other. She seems to just be present. He embraces not his new wife, but he takes possession of HIS WIFE. Pictures of them touching are posed/staged or her holding onto him. Any time he is touching her, he is possessing her. He has a literal grip on her. 

Edited December 22, 2021 by fundiefan

[Howl]

22 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

Their wedding pictures do not show a couple in love with each other. She seems to just be present. He embraces not his new wife, but he takes possession of HIS WIFE. Pictures of them touching are posed/staged or her holding onto him. Any time he is touching her, he is possessing her. He has a literal grip on her. 

Is there still a link to the wedding photos?

 

[Columbia]

24 minutes ago, fundiefan said:

Their wedding pictures do not show a couple in love with each other. She seems to just be present. He embraces not his new wife, but he takes possession of HIS WIFE. Pictures of them touching are posed/staged or her holding onto him. Any time he is touching her, he is possessing her. He has a literal grip on her. 

To think one of the Botkin sisters was interested in him at one point. Why would you ever look at him and have any thoughts other than “this guy is scary as hell?”

The tell-all podcast episode in five or so years when this poor girl leaves him should be very interesting. 

[Howl]

10 minutes ago, Columbia said:

To think one of the Botkin sisters was interested in him at one point. Why would you ever look at him and have any thoughts other than “this guy is scary as hell?”

Geoff Botkin is scary as hell, and they worship their father, so it could have been perfect.  

 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

There was another podcast years ago when an ex talked about Natty. His ex on the previous podcast may have thought he was gay. Does anyone else remember that?

[fundiefan]

45 minutes ago, Howl said:

Is there still a link to the wedding photos?

 

They are on Abigail's Facebook.