(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 42: Prosecution Rested. After His Conviction Maybe We Can, Too

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, TuringMachine said:

Lol so because she wrote more her report is better? 

Plus I would bet the government “report” is a summary that refers to a longer report and/or has substantial appendices.  I have run into this while judging special research projects (for contests) at the university level.  Some science and tech students put everything in one big report and assume more is better.  The stronger entries were actually abstracts of longer papers with supplementary material (photos, etc.) in an appendix folder. 

[Sister Mozz]

It's not to the jury yet, but I hope they convict quickly when it gets to them!

[TuringMachine]

Between this and the fact that I'm getting my covid booster in 2 hours my anxiety is through the roof (I really don't like needles)

[hoipolloi]

23 minutes ago, Magenta said:

could be they couldn't find an expert that would interpret the evidence in favour of their client

Perhaps, but I suspect it was more a matter of approaching more experienced experts who saw or knew enough about the evidence, even from public media accounts, to say "No thanks, I'm busy on those dates."

Edited December 7, 2021 by hoipolloi
Clarity

[neuroticcat]

39 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

If JimBob can hold the door for “everyone,” why can’t Josh hold the door for his wife sometime?  This is very much a Southern thing.  Not just men but women will hold doors for others, and men will often go out of their way to hold the door for “a lady.” (I have experienced it at all stages in my life: as a “hot” young woman, a mother with kids, a plump middle-aged “lady,” and now a greying senior citizen.)  How did Josh miss this basic Southern mannerism?

I am raising the question because it may be connected to the way the Duggars looked the other way a lot when Josh was a teen.  Parents as controlling as these would have ingrained “good manners” in their kids and Southern good manners include opening doors.  Even if fundie rules say the wife walks two steps behind, I would expect Josh to open the door for Anna, let her through, then let her grab his hand and trail two steps behind (be dragged along).  It is really weird.

I agree. It’s weird and I think it spotlights his narcissism and is odd the parents never corrected him. But, given what else they never corrected, that is small fish. It could also be that Anna insists on walking behind her headship, though. I could see a certain martyr glory in that and it fits with choosing “others first.”

Edited December 7, 2021 by neuroticcat
Typos

[Jinderella]

This was his defense? All of it? I’m shocked…

It will be over before another weekend starts!

[Magenta]

OMG.  We NEED for the prosecution to spell out the tech shit in, like, kindergarten terms. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I hope it’s a quick deliberation because I read that it usually means it’s a guilty verdict. Plus I’m impatient. 

I hope it's quick to make the point that it wasn't even close.  If they have to badger a hold out they'll be more confident in any appeal.

[nokidsmom]

7 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

Seriously? Today? It is three o'clock there is there time for closing arguments? Or will they let the jury go home early today?

Entirely possible they could.  I sat on a case where closing arguments were pretty late in the day and we went into deliberations after that.  Nearly got sequestered but handed down a verdict around 9 PM.

 

[sableduck]

All that money for defense attorneys and the best they could do was “Maybe it was someone in France?”

They were probably begging him to take the offered deal. 

[libgirl2]

Just now, sableduck said:

All that money for defense attorneys and the best they could do was “Maybe it was someone in France?”

They were probably begging him to take the offered deal. 

Now I wonder if Boob didn't pay them enough or told them to keep it short so it would be cheaper? 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Someone remind me I'm not religious anymore because I've been praying that at the guilty verdict they take him immediately into custody.  No awaiting sentencing at the Rebers please.

[Sister Mozz]

Just now, nokidsmom said:

Entirely possible they could.  I sat on a case where closing arguments were pretty late in the day and we went into deliberations after that.  Nearly got sequestered but handed down a verdict around 9 PM.

 

Same. The one time I was on a jury we deliberated from 3 until 9 pm. None of us wanted to sit there all night. 

[FiveAcres]

No way to prove, and I will probably never know unless one of family members writes a tell all after a lot of "real" therapy, but I have a theory that, despite being presented as the golden son on TV, one the major issues in the Duggar family for years has been "What should we do about Josh?"

Someone mentioned that Michelle looked aghast when Josh announced the FRC appointment in DC. From Josh's point of view it was great: he could finally get away from his controlling parents. And if they were concerned about Josh leaving their control, their fears were confirmed when the Ashley Madison scancal blew up, and FRC kicked him to the curb. 

So he and his family had to go back to Arkansas to a house that was not on the compound? How long did he stay there before he moved his family into the warehouse? Was there ever any explanation. I wonder if there was yet more acting out by Josh so they had to move him closer, where they could keep better track of him.

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by FiveAcres
No is not know.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Just now, libgirl2 said:

Now I wonder if Boob didn't pay them enough or told them to keep it short so it would be cheaper? 

Experts generally don't out and out lie and there is no amount of money that could have cast reasonable doubt from a technical angle.  Linus Torvald himself couldn't spin a plausible explanation outside of Josh.

[fundiesarefascinating]

I am genuinely looking forward to hearing the closing statements from the defence. Seriously, they barely have enough to pull together a coherent sentence from their 'expert' witness. What could they possibly try and summarize from all of this? 

[anjulibai]

1 minute ago, libgirl2 said:

Now I wonder if Boob didn't pay them enough or told them to keep it short so it would be cheaper? 

No, it wouldn't matter. They'll do what they have to to defend their client, and just charge JB. 

This is all they could come up with. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

1 minute ago, FiveAcres said:

Know way to prove, and I will probably never know unless one of family members writes a tell all after a lot of "real" therapy, but I have a theory that, despite being presented as the golden son on TV, one the major issues in the Duggar family for years has been "What should we do about Josh?"

YES!!  For years I've never understood the golden boy narrative.  I saw some placating to keep him under control, but no special feelings for him.

[Buzzard]

4 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Someone remind me I'm not religious anymore because I've been praying that at the guilty verdict they take him immediately into custody.  No awaiting sentencing at the Rebers please.

Sadly, this is unlikely.  He likely will have a presentence review/report done and will be free until February or March. 

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, anjulibai said:

No, it wouldn't matter. They'll do what they have to to defend their client, and just charge JB. 

This is all they could come up with. 

I know, I was just joking around. 

[Ms. Squishels]

I had to skip through a lot of this, but a while back someone mentioned wondering about what Josh is thinking in court.  I too have been thinking about what is going on in his head.  I am curious about a few things.  One, is he enjoying the attention?  Is that how narcissists work?  And since he obviously doesn’t love or care about his wife at all, is he enjoying the pain that she must be going through?  Does he have any concern at all for what this will do to his children?  Is he enjoying the downfall of Jim Bob and Michelle?  I wonder also if he truly thinks he’s not going to jail.  I enjoy hearing everyone’s take on the physocology of Josh!  It’s very interesting to me.

[Heidijoey]

How does the jury work ? I don’t watch legal type shows and have never had jury duty. Do they deliberate first or cast guilty not guilty first and deliberate from there ?

[Alisamer]

34 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

If JimBob can hold the door for “everyone,” why can’t Josh hold the door for his wife sometime?  This is very much a Southern thing.  Not just men but women will hold doors for others, and men will often go out of their way to hold the door for “a lady.” (I have experienced it at all stages in my life: as a “hot” young woman, a mother with kids, a plump middle-aged “lady,” and now a greying senior citizen.)  How did Josh miss this basic Southern mannerism?

I am raising the question because it may be connected to the way the Duggars looked the other way a lot when Josh was a teen.  Parents as controlling as these would have ingrained “good manners” in their kids and Southern good manners include opening doors.  Even if fundie rules say the wife walks two steps behind, I would expect Josh to open the door for Anna, let her through, then let her grab his hand and trail two steps behind (be dragged along).  It is really weird.

This is actually strange. I hold doors for anyone, no matter what! And while it might not be the same anymore, I'm old enough that on some of my earlier dates the guy opened the car door for me (and then I leaned over and lifted the button to unlock his door, LOL!). Like I don't expect him to do that, but if he and Anna are walking together, especially if she's behind him, I'd expect him to hold the door until she got through. 

Heck, my sisters and I do that. It looks like a comedy skit sometimes in stores with a little vestibule between two doors. One holds the first door, other one says "thank you", other one opens the inside second door, first one says "thank you".

I'm torn on whether I hope they do closing arguments now. Like if they did, the jury might find a verdict quicker because they'll be held late and want to go home. But if they wait until tomorrow, the prosecution has all day to shoot holes in the defense's flimsy arguments. 

[Kleine Vampirin]

4 minutes ago, FiveAcres said:

So how long did he stay there before he moved his family into the warehouse? Was there ever any explanation. I wonder if there was yet more acting out by Josh so they had to move him closer, where they could keep better track of him.

 

Excellent point. There's a timeline I'm interested to revisit now we know so much more.

[Jinder Roles]

Doubtful that th jury would deliberate today. There’s still rebuttals and closing arguments. I can’t imagine deliberation would take long. The defense’s only witness was torn to shreds in cross-section. I know it only takes one juror but I can’t see how anyone could have reasonable doubt about this. Albeit, I’m fairly well-informed about fundie abuse systems and hold different identities from most of the jurors so maybe this is a harder decision for them. 

I wonder what prayers will go up in the Duggar household tonight. Will it be for the truth? Or will it be for Pest to be found not guilty? 
 

I’m super curious to see what statements all the Duggar camps will make if/when Pest gets taken away: 

As for sentencing, I think he’s looking at a good 15 years. May he rot in hell.