(CW: CSA) Josh & Anna 42: Prosecution Rested. After His Conviction Maybe We Can, Too

[HerNameIsBuffy]

13 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Wasn't she in that parade that boob was in for the upcoming election? 

Thanks, yeah.  Ignore me.  

[Bluebirdbluebell]

I'm convinced Michelle joined a cult where she could play the little woman and not have to deal with anything that could fall into JB's jurisdiction. 

Austin is sitting with JB? That's either really awkward or they think alike.

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, 3KidsAndStopped said:

Jimbob held the door open for everyone as they left court for lunch

And presumably his wallet to the defence team

If JimBob can hold the door for “everyone,” why can’t Josh hold the door for his wife sometime?  This is very much a Southern thing.  Not just men but women will hold doors for others, and men will often go out of their way to hold the door for “a lady.” (I have experienced it at all stages in my life: as a “hot” young woman, a mother with kids, a plump middle-aged “lady,” and now a greying senior citizen.)  How did Josh miss this basic Southern mannerism?

I am raising the question because it may be connected to the way the Duggars looked the other way a lot when Josh was a teen.  Parents as controlling as these would have ingrained “good manners” in their kids and Southern good manners include opening doors.  Even if fundie rules say the wife walks two steps behind, I would expect Josh to open the door for Anna, let her through, then let her grab his hand and trail two steps behind (be dragged along).  It is really weird.

[Magenta]

40 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Giving Ms. Bush the benefit of the doubt, expert witnesses are supposed to be neutral. They are called or retained by the defense or the prosecution but, technically, they don't have an opinion on a defendant's guilt. They are there to provide expert testimony on some sort of evidence. Are there ambulance-chasing expert witnesses who will take a buck for anything and who are well-known to certain members of the legal community? Sure, but the witness is not in court to speak to guilt or innocence per se.

The fact that the defense ended up with Ms. Bush as their IT expert suggests to me that they could not get anyone more experienced to take the case. She also may not have realized what a damning case the Feds had against Josh until after she was retained & reviewed the evidence. She probably hoped that the 100-page report + her testimony would fool someone on the jury into agreeing with her.

could be they couldn't find an expert that would interpret the evidence in favour of their client

[neuroticcat]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m sure the Duggars sucked her in. 

PreDuggar fame I’d bet it was a only subset of people vulnerable to cults who would even want to be IBLP. I mean, Gothard had his heyday preying on the fears of parents who didn’t want rebellious children. He used to sell out stadiums in the 80s. 
 

Post Duggars I could see a lot of people drawn to the picture they presented. The other night on Reddit, there were a lot of people telling how they became snarkers. A good number was people who started watching the show in their teens and were drawn to the picture of family togetherness because they didn’t have that in differing ways. I would be curious to know more about Laura . When the trial ends for the day maybe I’ll direct my compulsive online checking there. 😂😬

[karenb4729]

10 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I'm convinced Michelle joined a cult where she could play the little woman and not have to deal with anything that could fall into JB's jurisdiction. 

Austin is sitting with JB? That's either really awkward or they think alike.

Well what was JB's choices, sit with Austin or the front row with Derrick?  He's probably trying to make sure Austin doesn't go all "Derrick" and say stuff to the media.  

[neuroticcat]

1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Back when I was in grad school, I had a teacher who had a page LIMIT. He would say, “any more than blank number of pages is just BS.” I loved it. Because I’m the type of person who gets straight to the point on all my papers. No extra BS. 

He also probably didn’t want to read/grade mammoth essays. Page limits are a huge win for the TA or grader. I love teaching, but grading essays? 😬👎

1 hour ago, SisterCupcake said:

Small side story: I'm currently setting up new internet service in my apartment and the customer service agent is asking things like "what do you download or stream?" and "who else uses the internet in your home?"

All perfectly valid questions, but after this whole mess I'm all like "why do you want to know? What's it to you? I'm not doing anything weird, ok, so just back off!" 😅🤣

You didn’t tell them they McDonalds customers sometimes drive by and stream? 

[EmCatlyn]

2 hours ago, DalmatianCat said:

It’s telling that the day her dad showed up, Joy didn’t.

I think Joy showed up the days Jill might have testified, possibly to support her sister if she did testify.

[Tatar-tot]

2 hours ago, postscript said:

Jim Bob’s expression reads as standard politician pretend-concern to me (“I’m so sorry to hear about your issues, ma’am, and if elected I’ll definitely look into that problem. What’s for lunch?”). 

Once again Josh drags his wife along behind without so much as acknowledging her presence. Anna is the one who looks miserable. It’s got to be sinking in that her husband isn’t likely to come out of this well. 

At the very least, we’ve learned that Josh is a heavy porn user, and not in a healthy way. 

I think the stress is getting to Josh.  Look at day 1 picture vs. this morning.  He has huge circles under his eyes now.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I'm convinced Michelle joined a cult where she could play the little woman and not have to deal with anything that could fall into JB's jurisdiction. 

Austin is sitting with JB? That's either really awkward or they think alike.

Austin was in court and JB showed up late and sat next to him.  I don't think we can read anything into a lot of the stuff about the seating arrangements or their interactions with each other in the court room as we don't have context.

My siblings and I were civil to our mom's abuser at her funeral in the sense that he was there and no scene was made.  One of my aunts who knew about but was in serious denial about the abuse was crying because she loved my mom and I handed her a box of tissues.  I even told her my mom loved her very much, which was true.  After the funeral we all went NC with the entire family.  

This family stuff is crazy nuanced, but how someone acts in court could just be performative because of all eyes being on them, who knows.

[imokit]

Joy needed to hear about what he did, and what happened to her.  She has likely learned over the last few days (and possibly months) that what she's been told happened to her as a child is complete crap.

She didn't want to hear the defence, she didn't need to.  But she's learned that she can't trust her parents (and possibly her older siblings) to give her the truth about Josh's crap.

Austin has gone today and will tell her the stuff she wants to know.  Just like I've no doubt that Derrick is reporting to Jill (or will report when the trial is over, I'm not sure if he's allowed to talk about while she's still on the witness list.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

16 minutes ago, EmCatlyn said:

If JimBob can hold the door for “everyone,” why can’t Josh hold the door for his wife sometime?  This is very much a Southern thing.  Not just men but women will hold doors for others, and men will often go out of their way to hold the door for “a lady.” (I have experienced it at all stages in my life: as a “hot” young woman, a mother with kids, a plump middle-aged “lady,” and now a greying senior citizen.)  How did Josh miss this basic Southern mannerism?

I am raising the question because it may be connected to the way the Duggars looked the other way a lot when Josh was a teen.  Parents as controlling as these would have ingrained “good manners” in their kids and Southern good manners include opening doors.  Even if fundie rules say the wife walks two steps behind, I would expect Josh to open the door for Anna, let her through, then let her grab his hand and trail two steps behind (be dragged along).  It is really weird.

People do that in the midwest, too.  It's common courtesy.  

[Jinder Roles]

According to  the Duggarsnark reddit, the defense has rested 

 I have a strong feeling Pest will be found guilty. Much like Amy, I’m praying for the ultimate sentence 

[neuroticcat]

1 hour ago, Lovebug said:

Honestly, I really cannot fathom what makes a person decided to defend people being charged with CSAM as it is.

But then to think she had to make the conscious decision to say hey, let me go over and above and write a 100-page detailed analysis of my proof, because I want to be extra thorough when helping this person get an acquittal for these heinous crimes.

It's just yuck.

 

My first thought was that it was someone I connected to ATI/IBLP, but that doesn’t seem to be the case since she got an actual education. My guess is money and a life plan for more of these cases? DAs will now know who to reach out when they need expert testimony on flimsy cases. Must pay well.

[socalrules]

Expert hourly fees can be extremely expensive. We are talking hundreds of dollars an hour for general handling such as reviewing documents, inspections or just talking to counsel. The hourly rate can go up for depositions or trial testimony. I have been in a deposition where a doctor charged $1,500 an hour for testimony. I would imagine a tech expert is very expensive due to the field being so specialized, but not doctor expensive, and I can see Jim Bob not wanting to pay for a top expert and instead taking the cheapest one the lawyers were able to find. Ms. Bush is a dream expert for opposing counsel. Since this is a criminal case, there were no expert depositions ahead of time, so it’s likely the defense was not able to see how poorly she would present under questioning. 
 

 

[FiveAcres]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Austin was in court and JB showed up late and sat next to him.  I don't think we can read anything into a lot of the stuff about the seating arrangements or their interactions with each other in the court room as we don't have context.

My siblings and I were civil to our mom's abuser at her funeral in the sense that he was there and no scene was made.  One of my aunts who knew about but was in serious denial about the abuse was crying because she loved my mom and I handed her a box of tissues.  I even told her my mom loved her very much, which was true.  After the funeral we all went NC with the entire family.  

This family stuff is crazy nuanced, but how someone acts in court could just be performative because of all eyes being on them, who knows.

Having been around since the fifties, I am thinking of all the people to whom I have offered condolences when I privately thought I should congratulate them.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Defense just rested

https://www.5newsonline.com/article/news/crime/josh-duggar-child-porn-trial-live-updates-week-2/527-949ffec2-a846-4ffb-8fec-5c53f2113d2c

Edited December 7, 2021 by HerNameIsBuffy

[nokidsmom]

16 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

I keep wondering how Michelle is taking this.  Not being snarky, but if I had to guess I'd say upping her meds (I don't care what they say, I think she's been on something for years) and vacillating between isolating in her room and raging over little stuff because she can't yell about what she's really mad about in front of the kids.  

Of course it's all speculation, but I am beginning to wonder if her being out of sight it a choice or if she's just in no position to be seen right now.  

I think she should be blaming herself for much of this but as much as I think she's the more dominant of the two I bet she's just fine using the cult teachings to shift blame to JB for letting this happen.  You know, because she's just a lil' ol' woman with no authority.  I would bet serious money she went at him over this hard.  

Always thought J'chelle was on something too.   I think for all her submission talk and having tons of kids, I suspect she has needed meds for years to keep on an even keel.    And another reason for their "buddy system", I think the older kids have had to take over not just because of the number of kids but also she might not be all that functional.

While she as the other parent is just as responsible for how they mishandled Joshley's issues and failed their daughters, I agree that she's likely pulling "you are the headship" blame card on JB.  Because I don't think she can fathom that the "wholesome Christian family" facade is crumbling like it is and this time there's no way to explain away / deflect this.

[FiveAcres]

2 minutes ago, Jinder Roles said:

According to  the Duggarsnark reddit, the defense has rested 

 I have a strong feeling Pest will be found guilty. Much like Amy, I’m praying for the ultimate sentence 

Seriously? Today? It is three o'clock there is there time for closing arguments? Or will they let the jury go home early today?

[QuiverFullOfCondoms]

1 minute ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

Defense just rested

No more defense witnesses? 👀

[anjulibai]

Did they only have one witness?

[libgirl2]

Just now, anjulibai said:

Did they only have one witness?

It seems so. Was that all boob could afford? 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I hope it’s a quick deliberation because I read that it usually means it’s a guilty verdict. Plus I’m impatient. 

[neuroticcat]

35 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

So I don't think she is necessarily in hiding and is a mess. I think she is choosing to not be there and pretend none of it is happening. Or she letting Boob take care of it. Who knows? We might still see her? 

I think she’ll show up on the day the verdict is read. 

[Buzzard]

I'd expect the prosecution to call atleast one expert to undo some of the confusion.

I hope smuggles enjoys his last night before conviction.