(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 38: Can't Believe I'm Typing This, but YAY Bobye Holt

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

44 minutes ago, Dominionatrix said:

For those asking for sources, the local Northwest Arkansas news outlet has the most detailed reporting of the trial that I’ve seen from a credible source, and they seem to be the source of a lot of other reports:

 

https://www.nwahomepage.com

Well worth reading to read what the jurors heard today from the investigators' visit to Josh. 

“I’m not denying guilt,” Duggar replied.

I'm not much of a note taker on account of the fact that I can't read my own handwriting, but if I were on the jury, I'd have written that one down.  And circled and underlined it several times.

Why didn't this shithead take any deal he could get?

[Ms. Brightside]

19 minutes ago, Anne Of Gray Gables said:

There is/was no neighboring restaurant to the Wreck Shack. 

You’re right… I just googled it, and the closest McDonalds is 5.8 miles away from Wholesale Motorcars. What an outrageous idea to even try to introduce that as a possibility!
 

I hope the prosecution calls them out on it. If I was on the jury and learned that, I’d be a little more skeptical about all of the arguments from the defense  

Edited December 2, 2021 by Ms. Brightside

[hoipolloi]

35 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

You can't "bootleg" WiFi and make it download to another computer...especially if you're on a phone. IF I remember right, most WiFi routers cover roughly a 100ft diameter area, so I can like access my router from my car but that's about the edge of it.

Maybe the defense attorneys are hoping that the judge -- like that asshat Schroeder in the Rittenhouse case -- or the jury are ignorant when it comes to IT and will believe anything someone tells them about the intertubez. So, they're just throwing nonsense out, hoping some of it will stick. Somehow, I don't see this working too well.

Gotta say that JB must be putting out big bucks for this defense team, regardless of how well or poorly we think they're doing. I guess that's where the rest of the family's TV money is going. 

Re: Anna. Brainwashed is the kindest thing I can say about her. 

 

[Mlissmartin]

Do we know for sure Boob is paying for his lawyers and they aren't just appointed?

[PinkGreyBrown]

Typically an indigent client gets one public defender. If it's a death penalty case they get a second, a specialist in death penalty cases. [Not a lawyer.]

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

22 minutes ago, Mlissmartin said:

Do we know for sure Boob is paying for his lawyers and they aren't just appointed?

Daddy is paying for sure. YouTube attorney Emily Baker says it was likely over a half million before the trial even started. But you know the old saying about the silk purse and the sow's ear. They don't have much to work with. 

[neuroticcat]

Am I wrong to think that all the defense has to do is prove reasonable doubt? As in, someone else could have done it, so if Josh denies it and it isn’t provable, the jury has reasonable doubt because he hasn’t been proven guilty?

I mean, my legal understanding is solely based on TV and novels, though, so could be way off base. But if that is the case, and Josh decided not to take a plea, the defense just has to throw everything that could explain it otherwise at this. I mean, they don’t have much to work with.

I also wonder if Josh’s chronic lying and Jim Bob’s arrogance could work together to make both of them blind to the nothingness of this defense. If the Duggar echo chamber/cult like way is so ingrained that Jim Bob cannot conceive of a reality other than his own and - whether Josh was honest or said, “No, it really wasn’t me,”-  there are still so many layers of codependency and guilt and lying  and abuse all around that maybe they do think it wasn’t him.

Anyway, I also think that if Anna still truly believes the Gothard way it doesn’t matter if she thinks Josh did anything or not. Isn’t that part of the umbrellas of authority teaching? Like, wife, your job is to submit to your husband. If he is in sin, he is responsible to God. You are only responsible for submitting. I think that’s some of the same garbage Debi Pearl taught in her help,etc stuff. Assuming she still holds to that, she may be thinking that keeping quiet and submitting is how she does the right thing and “trusts God.” 

 

[TuringMachine]

4 hours ago, OMG said:

I agree with you. Having just read Pickles' FB post calling Jill evil, I'm a tad shocked. I shouldn't be, as it's Pickles, but she shouldn't be demonizing a sexual abuse victim. Ugh.

Amy's insta story seems like pretty good confirmation Jill is testifying against pest, not for him.

Spoiler

But also, eat shit pickles.

[The Mother Dust]

I just don't see how the defense can get around the fact that the password to the partitioned side, was apparently the same password to his bank account??  How on earth do they explain some random "other guy" having that info?

[Idlewild]

I do find it odd that Derick acted friendly towards Josh and Anna- he doesn’t have to shout ‘Fuck you’ across the court, but he could sit on his hands and look straight ahead. However Derick thinks he’s smarter than all the Duggars rolled into one, so maybe he thinks he’s playing some elaborate mind games.

Running the ‘too thick to download CSA’ defence is all well and good to cast reasonable doubt but in my view it would depend on preventing Josh giving evidence. If he takes the stand he is likely to be exposed, like JB was, for what he is.

[Natalie22]

1 hour ago, The Mother Dust said:

I just don't see how the defense can get around the fact that the password to the partitioned side, was apparently the same password to his bank account??  How on earth do they explain some random "other guy" having that info?

I mean, they really can't.  The little I know about the law (dated a lawyer once), is that you have to do what your client instructs you to do, even if it's against your recommendations.  Especially in cases where lawyers think you will realize how wrong you were down the road, they will make you sign a document showing that they outlined all the problems and challenges with what you are directing them to do so you can't go back and sue them when you realize they were right.  My guess is that Josh's legal team knows this is a bad case to try to defend, it's probably impossible, but he is their client and he must've instructed them he didn't want to accept the plea agreement.  They have to defend him to the best of their ability, they just have terrible facts to argue against.  In many ways, that shows the strength of the prosecution's case, which is exactly what you want.  You want the prosecution to have such a well investigated case that there is no clear defense.  

[Natalie22]

I think in the last thread people brought up body language analysis.  I thought I'd share this article breaking down why that is not always accurate when used in this manner https://www.popsci.com/story/science/body-language-analysis/ .

 

Basically, people are complex, a particular gesture could mean multiple things, and culture can also change the meaning.  It's a lot easier after the fact to say this behaviour shows this person was doing x when we already have a narrative. 

[Smee]

5 hours ago, Dominionatrix said:

For those asking for sources, the local Northwest Arkansas news outlet has the most detailed reporting of the trial that I’ve seen from a credible source, and they seem to be the source of a lot of other reports:

 

https://www.nwahomepage.com

Do they have a description of the images? I want to read the stuff like the opening statements and transcripts of the car lot interviews but I don’t want more detail about what was done to those children.

Also, of course Anna didn’t stay in the room. These are fundies. They warn each other when a girl in a short skirt walks past.

[AussieKrissy]

6 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

The Redditor who has been attending court also had an account of interaction between Derick and Josh.  The Redditor, who was a row behind Derick, reports that Josh walked in with Anna after the break and went back to shake Derick’s hand and jokingly said “Nice to meet you.”  🙄 Then Anna apparently chatted a bit with Derick.

So apparently the reports that Derick was talking to Anna were correct, but the contact was initiated by Josh!  

Well if that’s true. Fuck you even more Derrick. And I don’t hold out much hope that Jill is testifying to crucify Josh. Derrick chatting to scumwad says otherwise. Who the fuck could be nice to a man who did what he did to your wife? 

Edited December 2, 2021 by AussieKrissy
Edit to add I just read about Amy’s post but still can’t see how Jill would be ok with her husband being pleasant to him if she wants to crucify him

[Sabine]

10 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Well if that’s true. Fuck you even more Derrick. And I don’t hold out much hope that Jill is testifying to crucify Josh. Derrick chatting to scumwad says otherwise. Who the fuck could be nice to a man who did what he did to your wife? 

from reading on reddit, someone stated that where he sat was right 'marking his seat, so that Jill during her statement would be able to concentrate on him, rather then have to look at the greasy one or the greasy ones wife.   He also showed up in full suit, red tie, red cup and tie clip. He did not show up to play nice, he came to mess with Smuggar. I doubt he would risk his potential career as a lawyer and risk his wifes testimony for shits n giggles. Lets not burn the man right away, he was there to make a statement, he was there to sort out the premises, and he was there to show that he is a future lawyer and man who is not to be messed with. Smuggar might have tried to be dominant by grabbing his hand and asking 'how have you been' (as per reddit J for Jail) and have been nice to Anna ' Congrats to the baby' type conversation, but i doubt that he really gives a fuck either way. 

When Jill has to sit there and talk about what happened in the past, he will be there, looking as sharp as can be, looking right as his wife, and they will be fine. Vengeance is best served cold, with a sharp suit and a good hair cut. 

[NoseyNellie]

I am swamped at work and desperately trying to keep up w/ this mess of a case.. I might be off in my info or just way behind.. but this is my .02
Derrick may not be everyone's cup of tea but as we can see he is very supportive of his wife and he is going to be there @Sabine-said it great- sitting there for Jill- "focus on me, tell your truth, I got you babe"...

Derrick and Anna have a good history as they would have been *family* before he and Jill were labeled troublemakers and shunned.  So many, just maybe, he is doing his part to be kind to her.. try to show her he is not the trash she wants to believe he is and more friend than foe.  Not slugging Josh in court was a wise move on his part.. Patience is a virtue they say.. Karma is also a bitch...

Austin came into the *family* when the Dillards were already on the outs right?  So he has likely been trained to believe they are bad news, troublemakers and not to be listened to.  Austin is also likely there to find out what really is going on, what did happen to his wife and sister in laws... He HAS to have a deep down hunch that Josh IS slime and be aware enough that he needs to hear the facts from the court room and not from anywhere else.  He is not heading to court for a family reunion.. He is (hopefully) there for as much truth as he can get and hopefully he can get his mind opened and help Joy get what she needs in life, take a lead for his family and do what SHE needs done.. distance, support, therapy etc.  

[sableduck]

In all honesty, for Derick to suddenly support Josh would be a complete about face and out of every bit of the character he’s show us the last few years.  It’s fairly obvious Jill is testifying for the prosecution, considering Amy’s post and her recent history with the family. IMO it’s far more of a stretch to believe Derick is suddenly BFF with any members of her family than to believe he’s showed up in support of Jill and specifically sat where she would see him when she testified.  We obviously can’t really know what any of these people are thinking, but Derick has pretty clearly showed us how much he likes JB.

[FluffySnowball]

41 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

Well if that’s true. Fuck you even more Derrick. And I don’t hold out much hope that Jill is testifying to crucify Josh. Derrick chatting to scumwad says otherwise. Who the fuck could be nice to a man who did what he did to your wife? 

While I’m afraid you might be right, I hope and assume Jill and Derick decided that Derick wouldn’t make a scene but stay civil. 

Josh is about to go to jail, he’s on trial for one of the worst offenses imaginable (in my opinion at least), his sister Jill is about to take the stand for the persecution. Why should Derick act openly mean now? I mean, I get it, Josh is a monster, but he is going towards his rightful punishment - with the publicity of his trial, one could argue that he’s already being punished before sentencing - and Jill and Derick can calmly sit back and watch. So, their reasoning might be that justice is coming without them needing to do or say anything that shows how hurt and angry they are. 

Edited December 2, 2021 by FluffySnowball

[Mama Mia]

For what it’s worth — Jinger, Jessa and Joy all complimented Jill on her IG post about her hair. Full of appropriate heart emojis, and a brief conversation between Joy and Jill about how she finally did it, how good it looked, etc.. I skimmed, but didn’t see any other Duggar responses. Seemed like a victim sisters show of solidarity. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

I like court drawings. But I’m sad that these court drawings have to be made during covid. Because I can’t see his face drawn with the mask. 

[CanadianMamam]

I think Derrick is being civil/polite beveuase it is the best thing for Jill. If he is polite then it's hard for anyone (read Jim Bob) to day Jill is testifying out of spite, be eusse she is vengeful and wants to ruin the family. No, by doing it this way, they show that this isn't personal, it is about what it is right. 

[SillyDillys]

As much as I talk a big game about what I would say to josh if I ever saw him...... I don't think I could actually say it to him if he was right in front of me. I would probably freeze up and maybe say a few words if he spoke to me first .Especially in court with everyone watching my interaction. I've testified in court with my parents divorce as a teen and that experience just scarred me. I think people are right in the sense that Derrick doesn't want to start trouble in court, especially when his wife is going to testify and push herself farther away from her parents. I think he is trying to show the others that he and Jill are not the bad guys in the situation. I also believe more children will realize how their parents failed them and distance themselves as well. The tater tor casserole empire is falling and Jimmy Bean can't stop it.

[Mama Mia]

18 minutes ago, SillyDillys said:

As much as I talk a big game about what I would say to josh if I ever saw him...... I don't think I could actually say it to him if he was right in front of me. I would probably freeze up and maybe say a few words if he spoke to me first .Especially in court with everyone watching my interaction. I've testified in court with my parents divorce as a teen and that experience just scarred me. I think people are right in the sense that Derrick doesn't want to start trouble in court, especially when his wife is going to testify and push herself farther away from her parents. I think he is trying to show the others that he and Jill are not the bad guys in the situation. I also believe more children will realize how their parents failed them and distance themselves as well. The tater tor casserole empire is falling and Jimmy Bean can't stop it.

You could really see the falling apart in their last special, about a month before the arrest. Very clearly SOMETHING was going on. Few of the adults participated, and everyone looked pissed as hell. With JB and Michelle looking really emotional and going on and on the whole time about forgiveness and new starts. The family dynamics and interactions were extremely strained. 

 

[OldFadedStar]

So I have a thought. 
I’ve seen people say that being happy Austin is there is leghumping. Same with Derrick. 
But they are the *only*family there. The party line is obviously to not show up to the trial. Why? I’m not sure but i suspect after JBs testimony that the party line is this is all cancel culture, satan attacking pest and the family, etc. There’s what, 6 adult couples in NWA and only 2 members  are there? And none of them are blood duggars? 
 

Austin showing up is essentially saying idc what the party line is, I’m going to hear this for myself. It’s quite interesting 

 

(Austin is still who he is)

[nokidsmom]

8 hours ago, Ms. Brightside said:

You’re right… I just googled it, and the closest McDonalds is 5.8 miles away from Wholesale Motorcars. What an outrageous idea to even try to introduce that as a possibility!
 

I hope the prosecution calls them out on it. If I was on the jury and learned that, I’d be a little more skeptical about all of the arguments from the defense  

Actually when I sat on my first jury, the defense used something similar for one of the defendants.  Basically, I worked out the distance and the defendant's travel time and thought "hell no".   But I think it was tried because it involved our city's transit system and several of the jurors were from the suburbs with no familiarity with it.   However, being carless, I was on it all the time, and yes, I mentioned the travel time issue in deliberations.