(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 38: Can't Believe I'm Typing This, but YAY Bobye Holt

[nokidsmom]

4 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I have to say, if I was a Duggar sibling or in-law, I'd want to be there. Just to hear how it goes, first hand. I wouldn't want to rely on secondhand info or only hear bits of what happened.

Given the heavy amounts of information control in that family, this is likely the one time they can get the information straight, without "Duggarspeak" and who knows how they will process that information down the line.  The ones who we think will continue to toe might not do do later.  

I think this trial could be a blessing in disguise for some family members as difficult as it is right now.  It might wake them up to the reality of what their family is really like and make changes.   I think this time JB may finally realize that the cat is let out of the bag and there's no stuffing it back as far as his family is concerned.

[Bobology]

Even  with Justin and company attending today, that is still only Duggars/in-laws who are not under JB's control attending at this point. Makes it look more and more like JB issued an edict to all those under his control. (I'm assuming Justin is not under his control at this point since he moved to another state and probably works for his father-in-law.) Time will tell.

[Cat Damon]

24 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

Now (per the Sun's live stream) the defense is trying to paint the possibility that Caleb Williams did all this via remote VPN.  But if so, how can they explain that the evidence found on multiple computers and cell phones?

I thought he was in prison? I could be wrong, and I don't want to go back and read the threads about his case. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, SillyDillys said:

Hilary Spivey is the biggest opportunist ass kisser I have ever seen around the duggars. I'm waiting for her insta post to show that she was there and say the case "is an attack on a godly Christian man and his family"

Women were lined up to marry Manson in prison.  Jeffrey McDonald got married in prison.  She seems to be just a proxy version of that.  

[formergothardite]

Is anyone else anxious he will get away with it? Juries can be so unpredictable. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

Anyone else curious about exactly how medicated Michelle is right now?  I'm picturing full on zombie taking her keep sweet cocktail of pills by the handful.

I would pay a lot of money to be a fly on the wall and see how enraged JB has to be for being dismissed as an irrelevant liar in court.  People who need control and have it publicly stripped from them don't tend to handle it with a glass of peach wine and an ASMR video.  

[theotherelise]

11 minutes ago, Cat Damon said:

I thought he was in prison? I could be wrong, and I don't want to go back and read the threads about his case. 

We was out on bond awaiting trial at the time of the downloads. But a condition of his bond release was that he was not allowed to leave the state or have contact with minors.

Williams did not get sentenced until January 2020 and then it was for 62 days in jail with work release. Slap. On. The. Wrist. I swear these white men...

[feministxtian]

I do not think Derick is there to "support" the pest. He was polite, as he should be, because smashing pest in the face in the courtroom is frowned upon. He's there to support his wife and to find out what's going on testimony wise so he can tell Jill what is going on in the trial. I think Austin is there for Joy. Joy may not be on the witness list, but to hear all that testimony about what happened in the past would be quite triggering. I think both of them are in the courtroom to send a message to Josh, "we know what you did and we're going to make sure you're reminded of it". Josh knows what he did even if he's trying to deny it. Their presence in the courtroom may be to try to keep him off balance a bit. 

[fluffernutter]

2 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Is anyone else anxious he will get away with it? Juries can be so unpredictable. 

I am worried too. There are way too many trials where white men get off. 😟

[TuringMachine]

9 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Is anyone else anxious he will get away with it? Juries can be so unpredictable. 

Yes. The whole, Caleb Williams remotely hacked the computer and left the partition with CSA images on it where Josh could easily find it seems pretty nonsensical to me, but maybe someone with less computer knowledge could find it believable. Also these white men seem to get away with everything.

Edited December 2, 2021 by TuringMachine

[danvillebelle]

1 minute ago, fluffernutter said:

5 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Is anyone else anxious he will get away with it? Juries can be so unpredictable. 

I am worried too. There are way too many trials where white men get off. 😟

Agreed.  A white man in McKinney, TX just got 40 years the other day for continuous sexual abuse of a child.  It gave me a glimmer of hope that Smuggar might get put away.

[theotherelise]

Oh my God. Just saw in my searching of these records that Caleb Williams has filed for visitation of the child of the survivor of his assault.

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Is anyone else anxious he will get away with it? Juries can be so unpredictable. 

Yep.  All it takes is one.  

[theotherelise]

I haven't felt confident anything would go well since November 2016. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

6 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

He was polite, as he should be, because smashing pest in the face in the courtroom is frowned upon.

This.  At my mom's funeral a family member who is a complete and utter abusive piece of shit came up to me to express condolences and I nodded and walked away.  I would have preferred to set him on fire, but I'm not going to help him look like the poor victim just trying to be nice while that vicious shrew charbroiled his testicles.  

Personally I think it would have been better for Derek to nod in acknowledgement and leave his hand hanging there as he took his seat, but it would have been far worse for him to go off on him.  

For a lot of men I think returning a handshake is just a reflex action.  Like when I bump into the corner of the wall and say excuse me.  

[hoipolloi]

Ugh. I am glad, though, that she feels able to speak out.

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, hoipolloi said:

Ugh. I am glad, though, that she feels able to speak out.

who is she? 

[FleeJanaFree]

I don’t believe for a second Anna thinks josh is actually innocent. There have been too many scandals and surely she knows what an ass he is in private as well as public situations. She knows he’s a piece of shit but she made that promise to God to stand by her man and by golly she’s going to do it. This is her cross to bear. 

[punkiepie]

4 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

who is she? 

RC Sproull, Jr.’s oldest daughter. 

[Bassett Lady]

1 hour ago, punkiepie said:

that seems like the only logical reason

They may be there to see for themselves, or to be a comfort to Anna, or to be in solidarity with Derrick or Austin, they may be there out of simple morbid curiosity. 
 

I hope they are there to see for themselves, to hear the evidence, and to make an informed decision about how to view Josh and what steps to take moving forward. 
 

Were it my brother, or brother-in-law, I would want to see him imprisoned for a very long time, to protect innocent children, but I would be heartbroken. 

[FiveAcres]

15 minutes ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

For a lot of men I think returning a handshake is just a reflex action.  Like when I bump into the corner of the wall and say excuse me.  

I apologize to the dog when I step on him. Even though it is his own damn fault for getting underfoot. 

[fundiefan]

Derik is in the courtroom? Austin too? 

I haven't been following, but that is interesting. 

I assume they are there to support their wives, even if their wives aren't there. And good for them. Having a supportive husband who puts your interests above anyone elses is something all women deserve. 

I am not at all surprised that Ben is not there. I can't imagine him having balls even in the most fantastical of imagination. He's too reliant & would never be a man supporting his wife; he's pretty much a kept man, as far as I'm concerned. A kept boy, actually. 

 

[nokidsmom]

20 minutes ago, FleeJanaFree said:

I don’t believe for a second Anna thinks josh is actually innocent. There have been too many scandals and surely she knows what an ass he is in private as well as public situations. She knows he’s a piece of shit but she made that promise to God to stand by her man and by golly she’s going to do it. This is her cross to bear. 

I have thought of this.   In addition to the public scandals, she would know how he is in private and I don't think he's a nice guy in private.  He's barely tolerable in public.  I suspect he's been a complete ass to Anna from the start and probably to the kids too.   It's her lot in life to keep sweet and any issues with her man are supposed to be her fault but after so many years of this shit, I think by now, maybe down deep she finally knows what kind of man she married and he is not innocent.   She will say otherwise until the cows come home, because she has to.   Because Jesus, for the kids and she sure as hell can't risk JB's ire on whom she is dependent.  

ETA: if anyone has watched the body language video on Josh from the last thread, it really shows how pushy and nervy Josh is, without any consideration for Anna and that's when he was proposing to her!  I never saw the actual episode but seeing the replay, I almost didn't need the accompanying analysis because it was just so cringeworthy.  Anna is clearly uncomfortable, Josh was arrogant, smug, pushy, oblivious and Pa/Ma Keller think it's all great.  

Edited December 2, 2021 by nokidsmom

[neuroticcat]

Justin and Claire are what, 19? I remember when I was in my early twenties initiating extending “forgiveness” toward  extended family estrangement members, the situation fo which I only knew bits and pieces about - I did this all  because of the verse in the Bible “as far as it depends on you, live at peace with all men.” Needless to say it stirred up a huge mess and definitely did not keep the peace with anyone…
 

I think anyone who grew up in that spiritually abusive culture and hasn’t gotten any space/help processing is going to have some spiritually confusing motivations that we likely can’t really imagine. Whether it’s Anna feeling like she’ll have to answer to God for not staying beneath Josh’s umbrella of authority or younger siblings wanting to extended grace to help convert the errant family member or whatever, these are deep motivations, because it’s not just what Jim Bob wants but what GOD wants and such deeply ingrained IBLP redefinition.

[FluffySnowball]

Joy just posted this in her Insta stories. Normally, I wouldn’t give it a second thought, but her mentioning the word “therapeutic” during the trial week seems to be meaningful, or what do you guys think? 
 

Edited December 2, 2021 by FluffySnowball