(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 37: Saving the Cocktail Dresses for Court

[gustava]

Was Jim Boob not there?!?!?!

[Integriste]

9 minutes ago, Antimony said:

Yea but you can Google an enumerated list on how to do it. The defense of "he only had a GED and was poorly homeschooled and thus is too stupid to do this" does not imply that "he is incapable of learning how to do a new task at all." It's kind of a bananas defense. 

It's also really not that hard. If you can operate and do some basic maintenance on your computer, you can partition it. The "complicated"-ness of code is also nonsensical; it's relatively easy to beg/borrow/steal a command line or a piece of code. So many people patchwork code from other people's code made available so it's a pretty bad defense.

FWIW, Justin of the "I Pray You Put This Journal Away" posted on the Reddit yesterday that he did, in fact, contact the Government but they didn't need any testimony from him. I think he mentions on the podcast (I confess, I haven't listened to it all because I'm spoiled by high production quality casts) that Josh did know how to do this. 

Yes, on his podcast he talks about Josh’s knowledge of Linux partitions and how content filters work.  He specifically went to Josh for advice on what kinds of Operating systems to use and how to set up content filters.  He has emails where they discuss the details.

Also, I think this sounds complicated to people who don’t do it, but it’s fairly common.  My husband has a Linux partition on his computer.  A lot of people use them for perfectly legitimate reasons and they’re easy to set up.  You can learn to do it with a Google search and a basic ability to follow directions.  

Edited December 1, 2021 by Integriste

[TuringMachine]

I wonder if the defense will use his statements and actions during the car lot raid as evidence of how dumb he is. 

[Antimony]

3 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I would think Josh's "I'm a stupid homeschooled Mac user" defense could be easily squashed by the prosecution showing early episodes of 19 Kids and Counting where Josh was hyped up as the computer expert and even had his own little computer room off the boys bedroom, if I recall. Also, he used to design websites. I believe even the Bates had him design their first website long ago.  

This reminds me that Josh & I are about the same age (~5 yrs) and for many people my age, Neopets was the first introduction to code. Now, Josh wouldn't have been allowed on Neopets but it was a site largely populated by children who were learning to code in HTML and, I think, CSS really quickly driven by the motivation of making sites to show off Screenies and their art of their pets. 

It's further nonsensical because while coding is a specialized skill like...actual children can learn it for fun, and do learn how to do it really quickly. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

12 minutes ago, Antimony said:

Yea but you can Google an enumerated list on how to do it. The defense of "he only had a GED and was poorly homeschooled and thus is too stupid to do this" does not imply that "he is incapable of learning how to do a new task at all." It's kind of a bananas defense. 

This.  It's an attack against overall education level and ability to learn.  I like it.

[feministxtian]

I'm not big on computer tech but I was able to partition a hard drive to put Linux on it as an OS and then load some graphics software that was linux based. I mean, if you can read, you can do it. If I remember right, it wasn't that difficult. 

[OldFadedStar]

I had a partition on my first MacBook because I wanted to still have windows. It wasn’t difficult at all to do 

Edited December 1, 2021 by OldFadedStar

[Alisamer]

18 minutes ago, theotherelise said:

As a potential witness, Jill would not be allowed to attend the trial. 

It probably makes her feel better that since she can't be there, Derrick is there. Watching. Right there in the family section knowing exactly what Josh has done. And Josh knows he's there. 

12 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

I wouldn't know how to partition a computer hard drive and I'm far from homeschooled. That's not something I want to do or have ever thought about doing. Not one of my teachers ever mentioned that. I think most people wouldn't know how to do that. 

I've partitioned a drive before (I'm also a Mac person...). I don't remember how to do it, but it's not difficult. That's exactly the sort of task that the vast majority of people could very easily accomplish after a Google or Youtube search for a tutorial. 

1 minute ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I would think Josh's "I'm a stupid homeschooled Mac user" defense could be easily squashed by the prosecution showing early episodes of 19 Kids and Counting where Josh was hyped up as the computer expert and even had his own little computer room off the boys bedroom, if I recall. Also, he used to design websites. I believe even the Bates had him design their first website long ago.  

This. Wasn't it the very first episode he was filming and editing video on a computer in his little studio/computer room? He was portrayed as being the computer savvy guy.

The "he's too dumb to do this!" is a super flimsy defense, IMO. 

Yeah he's pretty dumb. But that doesn't make him incapable of following simple instructions, particularly if he's got motivation to do so. He had to learn how to do that stuff, but I'd think the details of the dark web and how to find CSA material were likely far more difficult than how to partition a drive. And he managed all of that, so...

Also, if he was so dumb and computer-illiterate, why was he running a car lot and using a computer there? 

It's pretty sad and a little ironic that a family who has built their brand on homeschooling being the way to turn out successful yet godly children is now relying on "but he had a crappy education because he was homeschooled" to keep one of those "godly" children out of jail for child porn. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I would think Josh's "I'm a stupid homeschooled Mac user" defense could be easily squashed by the prosecution showing early episodes of 19 Kids and Counting where Josh was hyped up as the computer expert and even had his own little computer room off the boys bedroom, if I recall. Also, he used to design websites. I believe even the Bates had him design their first website long ago.  

To be fair designing websites is unrelated to partitioning a hard drive, but I agree with your overall point that one who is tech savvy should be able to learn other tech skills.

[nokidsmom]

56 minutes ago, Bassett Lady said:

.....

I think his presence reminds the pedophile that there are those who KNOW the truth and will no longer be silenced. Truth is not petty.

By sitting in the family zone he reminds Josh that not everyone in the family supports him. 

I think Derick experienced a lot of surprises about the "wholesome Christian family" he married into during the years following his marriage.  And I think one of  them was the molestations.   While we don't know what Jill may have told him about that time, if anything, but I suspect that part of Derick's anger towards the family is knowing that Josh molested his sisters, one of them his own wife, their parents failed to hold Josh accountable, get Jill and her sisters the necessary support and help (and Josh as well).  Sure he can be an ass but regarding anger about what his wife went through at the hands of her family, I think he's got just a few axes to grind here and I don't blame him.   He did have a more mainstream upbringing and while he was in a "fundie phase" when he became JB's prayer partner and met Jill, I think the more mainstream part of him kicked back in after he saw how effed up his in-law family really was. 

I think that in addition to following the trial to update Jill on what's going on, he wants to see Joshley go down, finally experience consequences for a change and have a front row seat to it all.  

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by nokidsmom
Finish sentence

[Sister Mozz]

The defense doesn't have to convince the world that Josh wasn't smart enough  to do this. They only have to get 12 people to reasonably doubt. 12 people who know a lot less about the Duggars than we do.

I think the jury will see past it, though.

[Alisamer]

8 minutes ago, Antimony said:

This reminds me that Josh & I are about the same age (~5 yrs) and for many people my age, Neopets was the first introduction to code. Now, Josh wouldn't have been allowed on Neopets but it was a site largely populated by children who were learning to code in HTML and, I think, CSS really quickly driven by the motivation of making sites to show off Screenies and their art of their pets. 

It's further nonsensical because while coding is a specialized skill like...actual children can learn it for fun, and do learn how to do it really quickly. 

I'm older than that (by a lot...) but yeah, as a kid we did some coding for fun, too! We had a Commodore Vic-20 that plugged into a TV, and a little book telling you how to use Basic to "program" some simple effects and even create a simple game. It was interesting and fun, and not that difficult to learn. 

I have no doubt that Josh was easily able to do all the things required to download the stuff he's accused of downloading. I think most children over the age of like 7 could partition a drive and download a browser, given the instructions on how to do so. We're not talking about rocket science here.

[FluffySnowball]

10 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

It probably makes her feel better that since she can't be there, Derrick is there. Watching. Right there in the family section knowing exactly what Josh has done. And Josh knows he's there. 

I've partitioned a drive before (I'm also a Mac person...). I don't remember how to do it, but it's not difficult. That's exactly the sort of task that the vast majority of people could very easily accomplish after a Google or Youtube search for a tutorial. 

This. Wasn't it the very first episode he was filming and editing video on a computer in his little studio/computer room? He was portrayed as being the computer savvy guy.

The "he's too dumb to do this!" is a super flimsy defense, IMO. 

Yeah he's pretty dumb. But that doesn't make him incapable of following simple instructions, particularly if he's got motivation to do so. He had to learn how to do that stuff, but I'd think the details of the dark web and how to find CSA material were likely far more difficult than how to partition a drive. And he managed all of that, so...

Also, if he was so dumb and computer-illiterate, why was he running a car lot and using a computer there? 

It's pretty sad and a little ironic that a family who has built their brand on homeschooling being the way to turn out successful yet godly children is now relying on "but he had a crappy education because he was homeschooled" to keep one of those "godly" children out of jail for child porn. 

I feel really nauseated by Josh so it pains me to ask this, but is he actually dumb or just not well educated? Cause that makes a big difference! 

Edited December 1, 2021 by FluffySnowball

[Antipatriarch]

4 hours ago, sndral said:

Link to an article w/ details about the questions asked of the potential jurors. https://www.kxan.com/news/national-news/jurors-alternates-selected-in-josh-duggars-child-pornography-trial-jim-bob-duggar-wont-testify/

Quote

approximately 50 people selected as potential jurors [...] Twenty-eight said they had watched at least one episode of the show.

Wow, over half. Does that seem high to anyone else? The Duggars do live nearby and I guess more local people would be curious enough to tune in. But still.... was this show ever that popular, maybe in the beginning?

[Alisamer]

1 minute ago, FluffySnowball said:

I feel really nauseated by Josh so it pains me to ask this, but is he actually dumb or just not well educated? Cause that makes a big difference! 

I'm gonna go with both. He can be both.

He's clearly not well educated, and I think that didn't help him develop what intelligence he was born with.

He's dumb enough to use the same easy-to-guess password for his bank account and the porn partition, and to bring up child porn on his own when the police raided the car lot. But smart enough to partition the drive and hide it from Covenant Eyes. Dumb people can do smart things. Smart people can do dumb things.

I have no idea what sort of native intelligence potential he might have been born with. His parents aren't promising examples though.

[Giraffe]

1 minute ago, Antipatriarch said:

Wow, over half. Does that seem high to anyone else? The Duggars do live nearby and I guess more local people would be curious enough to tune in. But still.... was this show ever that popular, maybe in the beginning?

Part if that could've been curiosity. "Local family has a tv show. Let me see what this is about."

[Alisamer]

Just now, Giraffe said:

Part if that could've been curiosity. "Local family has a tv show. Let me see what this is about."

Totally.

There are a ton of people local to me who watched "DCC Making the Team" for the sole reason that a local girl was on there. It probably doesn't happen in big cities as much, but in smaller towns? Especially filming in the area? I bet LOTS of people watched. Just to see what would be shown. And then talked all about it.

"Did you see on that Duggar show last night they were down at the thrift store. I swear I saw that lamp you donated in the background there." "I know! They also drove past John's old house in one of the scenes and I swear that was Kay's car that passed them on the road about halfway through. She wasn't driving, though. Wonder if she knew her son borrowed the car that day?"

I'm sure they weren't avid followers of the show, but at least at first I bet a good number watched just to see their town on TV.

[Cheetah]

38 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

 

I wouldn't know how to partition a computer hard drive and I'm far from homeschooled. That's not something I want to do or have ever thought about doing. Not one of my teachers ever mentioned that. I think most people wouldn't know how to do that. 

I agree the Duggars failed their kids with terrible homeschooling, but this is something only a handful of people would know. 

I did it once back when I was in grad school.  It's not something I would have figured out how to do on my own but I think it was pretty easy to just follow some instructions for it (that said... it was like 25 years ago... )

[backyard sylph]

5 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

I feel really nauseated by Josh so it pains me to ask this, but is he actually dumb or just not well educated? Cause that makes a big difference! 

He's not intellectually dumb. He has, despite his east coast adventures and small business exploits, a narrow view and set of experiences such that he's not world-savvy, or socially broadened. Regardless of education, that requires types of curiosity and drive he had suppressed and repressed from an early age. It's why he's sort of unevenly structured.

Under ordinary circumstances, JD, Jana, and Jill would probably all be fairly successful people with plenty of intellectual curiosity. Him, I dunno, it's hard to picture him that way; he's got a faulty wind-up key. But he is, in Red Foreman terms, a dumbass, rather than dumb. 

[Bluebirdbluebell]

40 minutes ago, gustava said:

Was Jim Boob not there?!?!?!

I think since he's a witness, he can't be there. Even if he wasn't witness, I didn't think he or Michelle would be there. Both of them are too cowardly. It's part of the whole way they're handling this problem; throw money at it, live in denial, and be ready to throw Josh under the bus and distance themselves if he's convicted. 

I'm surprised JB didn't send anyone like John David to watch the trial. Again though it goes with the strategy.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Bluebirdbluebell

[HerNameIsBuffy]

9 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I'm gonna go with both. He can be both.

He's clearly not well educated, and I think that didn't help him develop what intelligence he was born with.

He's dumb enough to use the same easy-to-guess password for his bank account and the porn partition, and to bring up child porn on his own when the police raided the car lot. But smart enough to partition the drive and hide it from Covenant Eyes. Dumb people can do smart things. Smart people can do dumb things.

I have no idea what sort of native intelligence potential he might have been born with. His parents aren't promising examples though.

I agree.  If I had to guess I'd say he is probably of average intelligence in the academic sense (I doubt MIT is missing an alum if not for homeschooling), but really lacking in critical thinking skills.  And his arrogance is off the charts and that will trip up even truly intellectually gifted people. 

[nokidsmom]

8 minutes ago, Sister Mozz said:

The defense doesn't have to convince the world that Josh wasn't smart enough  to do this. They only have to get 12 people to reasonably doubt. 12 people who know a lot less about the Duggars than we do.

And the 12 people can "reasonably doubt" individually for different reasons but still agree with everyone else on the jury to convict or acquit.  Been a juror on 2 cases where we convicted the defendant(s) and it was interesting the different takes some of us had as far as "reasonable doubt" but all that mattered was that we all agreed on the overall charges vs. applicable law one way or the other.   So one juror may not believe Josh was too dumb and that will nail it for that juror.  Or another may not believe that partitioning a hard drive was beyond him, thinks it's BS.  Or some other reason.   But as long as they all agree together on conviction / acquittal, that's what matters.  

[EmCatlyn]

1 hour ago, Alisamer said:

Wow the images and video have already been shown to the jury? Seems like they are being hit with the nasty facts first and leaving Josh to have to try and climb his way out of the grave they are digging.

I think they are hoping to wrap the case up by the weekend.  The prosecution is throwing out their evidence and the defense is trying to counter it.

The defense is telling the jury not to let the CSAM influence their judgment because the question is not whether there was CSAM but whether Josh was involved in downloading and/or viewing.  

1 hour ago, karenb4729 said:

Maybe he wants to watch Josh go down!  Also, he is or will be a lawyer once he passes the bar.  I bet he is there the whole trial.  I just wonder why he is sitting in the family section.

Possibly it was a way to be sure of a seat.

[EmCatlyn]

42 minutes ago, FluffySnowball said:

I feel really nauseated by Josh so it pains me to ask this, but is he actually dumb or just not well educated? Cause that makes a big difference! 

Josh is not stupid at all.  He is just not very smart. 😉  By this I mean that he has at least average intelligence, but he lacks common sense as it applies to the world outside his narrow frame of experience.  He does stupid things, like asking the detectives if someone has been watching CSAM or using his regular password on the partition.

The defense’s argument that Josh couldn’t have created a partition and so forth is just nonsense.  Unless scared of (intimidated by) computers, anyone who is sufficiently motivated can follow directions to do a lot of things on a computer. We know Josh is not intimidated by computers, and we can figure he had a lot of motivation. 😉

[Queen Of Hearts]

53 minutes ago, Antipatriarch said:

Wow, over half. Does that seem high to anyone else? The Duggars do live nearby and I guess more local people would be curious enough to tune in. But still.... was this show ever that popular, maybe in the beginning?

Frankly, I am surprised it wasn't higher.  I would say at least half the people I know have seen at least one episode of the show, and we don't live locally.  I would think a lot more people in their community would have watched simply because they live there.