(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 37: Saving the Cocktail Dresses for Court

[Jinderella]

Breaking news on Reddit, the judge allowed testimony of prior bad acts!

yep Jim Bob, he will allow it!

[SassyPants]

9 minutes ago, Idlewild said:

@EyesOpen I agree 100%. JB is all about him, his beliefs, his standing and his money. He does not care about the welfare of his children, any of them. He cares about people seeing him as important and money. If he cared about his children, they’d have had decent educations, therapy, privacy. They got none of that- they were put to work to further his cause, but he didn’t even pay them. He was livid when 19KAC was cancelled and only reluctantly accepted Counting On- but wanted to worm his way back in. Now he’s whining about cancel culture again, like he has a right to a TV show. He is a disgrace.

 

JB is a coward.

[punkiepie]

The motion was denied!  Prior bad acts will be allowed into evidence! 

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59871253/united-states-v-duggar/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc

 

[nolongerIFBx]

18 minutes ago, nokidsmom said:

I can't for the life of me understand why Bobye would to give Josh another chance at a relationship with her daughter after hearing what he did the first time.   I get that she and her husband were close to the Duggar family and wanted to give Josh the benefit of the doubt, but did the benefit of the doubt really mean still wanting their daughter to forge a relationship with a confessed child molester?  Good grief.   It was good they called a halt to things after hearing Josh confess the first time but still they were so steeped in the patriarchy that they were willing to try again?!?  Only after he confessed to Bobye to doing it again with some graphic details did she finally get it.      

. . . .

I think because they did actually believe at first it was "just" curiosity. Like playing doctor or I'll show you mine if you show me yours. (They didn't take into account that both of those scenarios are consensual.) Even on FJ, we discussed that he was still young enough that he did not fit the definition of a pedophile because  of his age. Bobye came to realize that it was a good deal more than they thought/were told. Three years is beyond "just curious."

[Idlewild]

@SassyPants I still wonder if the Vuolos made a claim similar to the Dillards but JB paid them off rather than risk litigation, bad publicity.

They live in a pricey area and have a pretty good lifestyle. I realise they’ve taken the influencer route but i can’t see Jeremy settling for nothing.

[Jinderella]

3 minutes ago, punkiepie said:

The motion was denied!  Prior bad acts will be allowed into evidence! 

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59871253/united-states-v-duggar/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc

 

II. CONCLUSION

For the reasons stated, the Court finds the evidence the Government seeks to
introduce under Rule 414 is both relevant and admissible. Further, the Court finds that
the admission of this evidence at trial will not violate Rule 403.

IT IS THEREFORE on this 1st day of December 2021. in Limine to Admit
Evidence of the Defendant’s Prior Child Molestation Conduct (Doc. 68) is GRANTED, and
Defendant’s Motion in Limine to Exclude Evidence of Juvenile Allegations (Doc. 72) is
DENIED.

[Idlewild]

Question for US lawyers/ legal people. Does the defence have to outline its defence? In England for a crown court trial, the defence has to submit a defence statement pre trial saying what evidence they take issue with etc.

 

[EmiSue]

7 minutes ago, punkiepie said:

The motion was denied!  Prior bad acts will be allowed into evidence! 

https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/59871253/united-states-v-duggar/?filed_after=&filed_before=&entry_gte=&entry_lte=&order_by=desc

 

Where's a "HELL YES!!!" reaction when you need it? Ah well, here it is:

HELL. YESSSSSSS!!! 🥳🥳🥳

[Not that josh's mom]

Just a quick comment on accidently getting porn when it isn't what you expect in a search. My niece, who is a bit more than chunky, was searching the internet for clothes for big women, she just typed "big women". She got a eye full, got out quickly and commented "I didn't know big women could move like that".  She carefully recorded her next search. When it isn't what you are searching for, you exit in a hurry.

Edited December 1, 2021 by Not that josh's mom

[Natalie22]

I think one important point about Jill testifying is that Jill probably won't have to testify about her specific experience.  The reason to have Bobye, Jim Bob, and Jill testify is to show that the police report is valid and true of what happened.  Jill just has to say that was what I said and the other statements reflect what I know from my siblings.  The defense can't really bring in the Megan Kelly interview unless it somehow contradicts what Jill is saying about the police report.   Also, you need to remember that it's probably going to look super bad to a jury if the defense attack a previous victim of the accused because they think there are small issues with her interview to Megan Kelly.  

[Laura2730]

3 minutes ago, EmiSue said:

Where's a "HELL YES!!!" reaction when you need it? Ah well, here it is:

HELL. YESSSSSSS!!! 🥳🥳🥳

WOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  🥳🥳🥳

[TuringMachine]

15 minutes ago, Jinderella said:

Breaking news on Reddit, the judge allowed testimony of prior bad acts!

yep Jim Bob, he will allow it!

Fuck you Jim Bob!

[OldFadedStar]

Josh is going to jaillllll 

Most likely. Pessimistic side shows that there could be a chance he doesnt. 

But his past being allowed in... that's a pretty damning piece of evidence against whatever the defense says. 

[Idlewild]

I can only assume the defence must have indicated that they were going down the route of ‘not the sort of thing a Christian like Josh would do’.

This makes me wonder if they haven’t got much of a case to defend about the actual downloading of the material, they just want to sling reasonable doubt at it and hope for the best.

If this ruling has pissed on JB’s cornflakes, then I’m here for it! 

[formergothardite]

I wonder if he is still smug or if he is beginning to think that perhaps he should have taken the plea deal. 

[nokidsmom]

41 minutes ago, SassyPants said:

I think the Seewalds and Vuolos are far more financially dependent on JB vs Joy and Austin. The Seewalds, for the obvious reasons, young dad from a family who likely can not help much, plus lots of kids. The Vuolos because of a more pricey life style. Austin’s family clearly has resources and greater employment opportunities for Joy and Austin, plus the F’s seem to live a fairly simple life.

Always thought Joy and Austin were fairly independent, as Austin came into their marriage with some skills and Joy works with him.  I actually worried when Derick quit Walmart as I feared both he and Jill would become too dependent on JB but that obviously changed.

The ones that I thought were pretty doomed to dependence on JB were Jessa and Ben.   They were dependent from the start and Ben has not done anything to reverse that unlike Derick.   The Vuolos, now them I can't quite put a finger on.   They have a pricey lifestyle while Jeremy is doing theological studies and the married theology students with families that I knew were certainly not living pricey lifestyles like these two are.  Their attempts at building their brand / influencing etc. seems to fall flat, money has to be coming in from somewhere.   On one hand, it seems the source would be JB but at the same time Jinger/Jeremy seem to keep their distance.  So often the price to pay for "economic outpatient care" from a parent is more involvement so not sure if the money might be from Jeremy's earnings when he was professionally playing soccer or some other source.  OTOH, they were able to buy their home in Laredo and it seemed independent of any JB involvement.    I can certainly see control freak JB demanding more from them if he was subsidizing their lifestyle, even if partly.   

ETA: Then again, I always got the vibe that Jeremy really doesn't like JB, tolerates him probably for Jinger's sake but no way would want to be beholden to him.  Actually I think that from the start Jeremy had JB's number.   

Edited December 1, 2021 by nokidsmom

[BernRul]

Including the molestation is a slam dunk imo. That destroys any reasonable doubt.

[arareyeah]

Can Josh at this point asks for a plea deal? Or is it far too late for that? (I'm not from the US)

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

2 minutes ago, arareyeah said:

Can Josh at this point asks for a plea deal? Or is it far too late for that? (I'm not from the US)

As I understand it, he can still plead guilty, but no deal. He'd have to throw himself on the mercy of the court.  He'd probably get some time off for taking responsibility, but nothing more.

May as well keep going at this point.  A 19 Kids fan may have slipped by and end up hanging the jury.  You never know.

[Alisamer]

1 minute ago, arareyeah said:

Can Josh at this point asks for a plea deal? Or is it far too late for that? (I'm not from the US)

I'm not a legal expert but I THINK it might be possible? Maybe? I don't think the prosecution has to consider it though. 

Legal experts - I know Alford pleas are rare but any opinion on whether he might be allowed to try for one of those? Seems like something he'd be willing to accept.

My understanding of those is basically "I still say I'm not guilty but since you have enough evidence to convict me I'm gonna take this sentence". Is that close?

[formergothardite]

If Josh is found guilty is this a case where they put him in handcuffs and he is taken immediately to jail? Or will he still get to go home ?

[Alisamer]

4 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

If Josh is found guilty is this a case where they put him in handcuffs and he is taken immediately to jail? Or will he still get to go home ?

I'm curious about that too - I always wonder how that distinction is made. Like most trials they go into detention until sentencing if they're guilty, but then there are some people (wealthy, mostly) who seem to get to schedule when they are going to go in to do their time. 

I'd assume with what he's accused of (as opposed to a "white collar crime") it'd be straight to jail, but I don't know. 

[OldFadedStar]

5 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

If Josh is found guilty is this a case where they put him in handcuffs and he is taken immediately to jail? Or will he still get to go home ?

I believe it determines how much of a flight risk they determine he is. I dont think that it would be automatic after being found guilty but will be after sentencing. 

I'd bet he is arrested right after verdict though if he is found guilty. 

[seraaa]

Well, that blows a huge hole in the defence's attempt to try for reasonable doubt, doesn't it. And in combination with the forensic evidence, which was already pretty strongly against him.

Edited December 1, 2021 by seraaa

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

Just now, Alisamer said:

I'd assume with what he's accused of (as opposed to a "white collar crime") it'd be straight to jail, but I don't know. 

He probably won't be sentenced immediately. Whether he'll wait at the Rebers or in jail, I don't know, but he would never go home to Anna and the kids to wait.