(CW: Possible CSA) Josh & Anna 37: Saving the Cocktail Dresses for Court

[Alisamer]

I was also a bit surprised by Anna's outfit - it looked nice, normal, and much better than she usually wears. She had on nude pointy toed heels too, it looked like, and the skirt was shorter than I think I've seen on her before. It definitely looks like someone more up on fashion is styling her. It was a far more sophisticated type of look than I had expected. I'm not sure if they're going for "sexy" or just trying to make her look more normal and not like a fundie cult member wearing a maxi skirt at all times.

[Letgo]

18 hours ago, Expectopatronus said:

Josh was a kid though and in their cult adults have authority over kids so she technically could have been. Isn’t Jim Holt the arrogant jerk who said he lost an election due to Josh looking at porn whilst helping out with his campaign? The famous “sin in the camp” dude? And if Bobye and Jim both knew about Josh, can they be charged now with child endangerment since they said nothing? 

Isn't there some group of fundies that puts male children over women, even their mothers, at a certain age? Anyone recall which group that is? I remember something about men or boys serving the Lord's Supper to female members of the family, too. Was it Doug and Vision Forum?

I thought it was JB himself who lost an election and blamed sin in the camp. Or am I just getting EVERYTHING wrong?

[Laura2730]

4 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Jill was the oldest of all the girls molested by him. I’m betting because if that, she would go tell. Then after she told, he molested the youngest. It’s like he knew the older ones were wise enough to know to tell and the youngest might not tell because she doesn’t understand. His behavior was calculated in my opinion. 

In response to this can I post what the unknown individual only known as 'Alice' wrote? I want to be careful regarding speculation.

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, Alisamer said:

I was also a bit surprised by Anna's outfit - it looked nice, normal, and much better than she usually wears. She had on nude pointy toed heels too, it looked like, and the skirt was shorter than I think I've seen on her before. It definitely looks like someone more up on fashion is styling her. It was a far more sophisticated type of look than I had expected. I'm not sure if they're going for "sexy" or just trying to make her look more normal and not like a fundie cult member wearing a maxi skirt at all times.

Yes, maybe not "sexy" but stylish and not a frump. It would also send a message, look how attractive she is, how modern, why would she stay with him if he were guilty? 

[Howl]

Guess who's happy today? Gotta be...Mrs. Reber!  She has her house back with no Josh under foot and she doesn't have to cook food for Josh to shove in his pie hole.  (I'm assuming that Josh is in a hotel in Fayetteville for the duration of the trial.)

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Howl

[Alisamer]

7 minutes ago, Letgo said:

I thought it was JB himself who lost an election and blamed sin in the camp. Or am I just getting EVERYTHING wrong?

I have a distinct memory of Jim Bob being interviewed about losing an election and saying it was "sin in the camp" in a very serious tone. 

[Smee]

10 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Jill was the oldest of all the girls molested by him. I’m betting because if that, she would go tell. Then after she told, he molested the youngest. It’s like he knew the older ones were wise enough to know to tell and the youngest might not tell because she doesn’t understand. His behavior was calculated in my opinion. 

I think it was calculated too, and it has long stood out to me that Jana was the only sister not among the victims. As the oldest daughter she may have been the most likely to tell. Or she was too close to him in age for the thrill of the power and domination angle. But it sickens me thinking of how he went younger and younger until he was watching horrific torture of toddlers.

[MomJeans]

I agree that Anna's look has been crafted by the defense team (which isn't unusual, but damn is this defense expensive).

I don't think they are trying to portray her as sexy, but as a confident, intelligent modern woman. capable of making her own decisions, and not a brainwashed cult member.  They don't want her going to court in frumpers, looking weak, uneducated, or unkempt.  I would even guess that possibly a female attorney or paralegal was tasked with taking Anna shopping, as who ever picked out Anna's outfit today is not from that cult.  It's also obvious she doesn't know how to walk in those shoes.  

[Laura2730]

1 minute ago, Smee said:

I think it was calculated too, and it has long stood out to me that Jana was the only sister not among the victims. As the oldest daughter she may have been the most likely to tell. Or she was too close to him in age for the thrill of the power and domination angle. But it sickens me thinking of how he went younger and younger until he was watching horrific torture of toddlers.

Can I post what the unknown individual only known as 'Alice' wrote? I want to be careful regarding speculation.

[anjulibai]

If Josh was 12 when this started, then his oldest victim was 9. Dear god. 

[fluffernutter]

I wonder if this is making Anna uncomfortable, wearing clothes so different than her usual style. I hope so. Let her feel the discomfort of standing by that piece of dung. 

[sleepygirl1]

I really hope he is found guilty, the more I read about this trial The more I just get angrier.

[Jinderella]

1 minute ago, MomJeans said:

I agree that Anna's look has been crafted by the defense team (which isn't unusual, but damn is this defense expensive).

I don't think they are trying to portray her as sexy, but as a confident, intelligent modern woman. capable of making her own decisions, and not a brainwashed cult member.  They don't want her going to court in frumpers, looking weak, uneducated, or unkempt.  I would even guess that possibly a female attorney or paralegal was tasked with taking Anna shopping, as who ever picked out Anna's outfit today is not from that cult.  It's also obvious she doesn't know how to walk in those shoes.  

Well, that didn’t fly, because the way she’s clinging to him does not say confident intelligent modern woman to me…

[EmCatlyn]

2 minutes ago, Laura2730 said:

Can I post what the unknown individual only known as 'Alice' wrote? I want to be careful regarding speculation.

How is it speculation to post what “Alice” wrote? (I really want to know so I don’t make a mistake.  This is not a rhetorical question.)

[EvilAthiest]

Since JimBob claims to “not recall” the specific acts that Josh admitted to, why don’t they subpoena Michelle?  

I’ve never been Mother-of-the-Year, but I sure would remember if my teenaged son told me that he digitally penetrated my young daughter’s vagina.

I didn’t think I could be more disgusted by JimBob.  I was wrong.

[libgirl2]

6 minutes ago, MomJeans said:

I agree that Anna's look has been crafted by the defense team (which isn't unusual, but damn is this defense expensive).

I don't think they are trying to portray her as sexy, but as a confident, intelligent modern woman. capable of making her own decisions, and not a brainwashed cult member.  They don't want her going to court in frumpers, looking weak, uneducated, or unkempt.  I would even guess that possibly a female attorney or paralegal was tasked with taking Anna shopping, as who ever picked out Anna's outfit today is not from that cult.  It's also obvious she doesn't know how to walk in those shoes.  

In Anna's defense, I wouldn't know how to walk in those shoes either! Or maybe I am too old to at this point! Give me my comfy Bzees any day. 

[Laura2730]

1 minute ago, EmCatlyn said:

How is it speculation to post what “Alice” wrote? (I really want to know so I don’t make a mistake.  This is not a rhetorical question.)

Here's what she wrote:

Spoiler

 

[EvilAthiest]

5 minutes ago, fluffernutter said:

I wonder if this is making Anna uncomfortable, wearing clothes so different than her usual style. I hope so. Let her feel the discomfort of standing by that piece of dung. 

The outfit should be the least of her discomfort.

[Jinderella]

9 minutes ago, Laura2730 said:

Here's what she wrote:

  Hide contents

 

But, according to Bobye and the prosecution, there was rape involved. Of a 5-year old. Only, Jim Bob doesn’t remember…

I mentioned this because there was some speculation Alice was Bobye…

 

Edited November 30, 2021 by Jinderella
Clarification

[Laura2730]

1 minute ago, Jinderella said:

But, according to Bobye and the prosecution, there was rape involved. Of a 5-year old. Only, Jim Bob doesn’t remember…

I assume 'Alice' only knew what Jim Bob had told certain people and I can guarantee he wouldn't have provided the kind of details about Jane Doe 4 that Bobye Holt provided yesterday that indicates rape. I posted it merely because of what she says about who knew first and told Jim Bob.

[SassyPants]

I’d wear Anna’s outfit, but I’m mid 60s-

[sixcatatty]

3 hours ago, Cheetah said:

From reddit:  

 

"Jusge just called for 20 min break.

Of note: 52/60 jurors showed up. 4 have been dismissed with a possible 2 more dismissed (but audio was off so we didn't know what the outcome was.

Juror 2: dismissed for distrust of government.

Juror 4: dismissed due to a scheduled medical procedure.

Juror 7: (OMG!) dismissed as he DAUGHTER is married to a Duggar boy (who could this be??) Judge was floored that prior screening didn't prevent this.

Juror 39: dismissed due to scheduled surgery

Juror 17: possibly dismissed due to knowing one of the Prosecution attorneys. They went to law school together:

Juror 5: possibly dismissed due to prior criminal past.

Witness list was read to ask if any juror knew any of them. It was explained that these are POSSIBLE WITNESSES... not guaranteed to testify.

Of note:

Jim Holt Bobye Holt Jill (Duggar) Dillard Jedidiah Duggar Calob Williams.

Note that Jim Bob was not on the list. Maybe prosecution decided not to use him since all he will say is "I can't remember".

Sorry for typos. Writing fast. Gotta go!"

https://www.reddit.com/r/DuggarsSnark/comments/r5su00/day_1_of_trial_jury_selection_update_at_morning/

 

How much you want to bet defense counsel move for a mistrial because even with admonitions, the parties can't be sure what the father-in-law of a Duggar said to taint the jury pool? I'm a criminal defense lawyer. I would.

[Anne Of Gray Gables]

No speculation about any victims, but does anyone really believe the incidents we know about are the extent of Josh's crimes against girls? Given the nature of their "church" and how they operated, I think it's not a stretch to imagine there are other victims out there. We only know about the things he didn't get away with. Well, partially didn't get away with. 

I hope someone is writing a book about this.

Edited November 30, 2021 by Anne Of Gray Gables

[Magenta]

38 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

Yes, maybe not "sexy" but stylish and not a frump. It would also send a message, look how attractive she is, how modern, why would she stay with him if he were guilty? 

Also (and this is disgusting) -- she's so attractive, why would he stray or look at porn? 

[Mama Mia]

22 minutes ago, Smee said:

I think it was calculated too, and it has long stood out to me that Jana was the only sister not among the victims. As the oldest daughter she may have been the most likely to tell. Or she was too close to him in age for the thrill of the power and domination angle. But it sickens me thinking of how he went younger and younger until he was watching horrific torture of toddlers.

If he started at 12, which was unknown to us before, right? And the victims were all at least 3 years younger — (except presumably the baby sitter) - he was pretty clearly aiming for pre-pubescent children. He molested the oldest girls first, then got more bold and kept going for younger sisters. Jill and Jessa would likely be out of his preferred range by the time he was caught the second time. That also correlates with what the prosecutors said regarding the ages and actions in the videos. So Jana wasn’t only too old to be intimidated - she was also likely just too developed. Sorry. Gross. But seems more and more clear he’s just a plain old pedophile. 

It’s also pretty clear from both JB and Bobyes testimony that Josh and the Holt daughter spent a lot of time together. Yes, they were chaperoned, but I’m sure if Josh had wanted to express his “curiosity” and rampant hormones with an age appropriate girl who liked him- he could of. 
 

What really pisses me off about JBs testimony is his “I don’t remember if he said the vaginal area, or just the breasts” that doesn’t ring remotely true. I’d believe him more if he said “Josh didn’t confess to anything other than over the clothes, or anything except x, y, z” but to not remember that very significant portion? No. Absolutely not.