Webster4Eva 10: If Alyssa Doesn't Record It, Then Does It Really Exist?

[MaryOrMartha]

I wonder if Alyssa had a boy would she make him be pristine at all times, or would he be allowed to play in the dirty because he's a boy?

[front hugs > duggs]

I'm fairly positive I know where those pictures were taken (she did a previous photoshoot there- in the fall I think? it's a big sunflower photo opp). It's a local farm, but it seems like a lot of people around here, not just fundies, use this farm as a photo shoot spot.

https://southernhillfarms.com/

I lol'd at a note on the site when thinking about our conversation about whether the girls were dressed appropriately:

"SOUTHERN HILL FARMS IS A WORKING FARM AND DOES NOT HAVE A PAVED PARKING LOT, YOU WILL BE PARKING AND WALKING IN A GRASS FIELD."

[Ana]

Allie is clearly the brains of this operation. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

34 minutes ago, Ana said:

Allie is clearly the brains of this operation. 

I wish it would have been “dining.”

[GreenBeans]

I feel so sorry for these kids. Our baby boy (almost a toddler by now, really) is always dressed to be comfy. He hasn’t even worn a pair of jeans in his life, because we thought onesies and tights were a lot more comfy and practical - no buttons or stiff seams, no cold feet, no socks to lose. We don’t dress him in little shirts with a collar, and we make sure he gets to wear mostly natural and soft materials. Shoes (once he starts walking properly) will be ones that are good for growing and developing feet. 

I get that many people want to dress their kids to look cute, but there are so many kids’ clothes and shoes that are both cute AND comfy / appropriate for the activity. Those poor girls having to wear those sandals or shiny, plastic-y Mary Jane type shoes (with little heels even?!) most of the time. They can’t be comfy, nor healthy.

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, GreenBeans said:

I get that many people want to dress their kids to look cute, but there are so many kids’ clothes and shoes that are both cute AND comfy / appropriate for the activity. Those poor girls having to wear those sandals or shiny, plastic-y Mary Jane type shoes (with little heels even?!) most of the time. They can’t be comfy, nor healthy

Webster girls wear comfy outfits often. Alyssa basically posts Sunday pictures, where they are all groomed, but in her daily IG stories, you can see normally dressed children. 

[Jackie3]

43 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

Webster girls wear comfy outfits often. Alyssa basically posts Sunday pictures, where they are all groomed, but in her daily IG stories, you can see normally dressed children. 

No, the Webster girls are often seen wearing cheap polyester dresses and plastic boots.  Once I saw them in an outfit that had a giant bow on the butt! They often wear shoes that don't allow them to play or run. Maci is dressed in oversized dresses that make it difficult for her to crawl. There's even video of Alyssa putting eye makeup on them!

There's no reason to even buy such clothes, unless you view your girls as little dolls.

She clearly didn't care whether they had a good time at the strawberry field, because if she did, they'd be in shorts and a top.

She doesn't dress them for comfort or for the development of their gross motor skills. I'm surprised anyone would defend her!

Edited December 21, 2021 by Jackie3

[SassyPants]

The Websters have said that they typically film on Saturdays, either for the show or their YouTube channel. The girls were dressed for filming, IMO. Plenty of times during the week, the girls have been dressed in play clothes. Sure those play clothes might include plastic shoes and sun dresses. I was shocked at how much time all this filming requires. If we’re going to point out the unhealthy and gross aspects of the girls’ lives, we should start will all the filming (AKA work) that the kids must endure.

[Queen Of Hearts]

2 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

I feel so sorry for these kids. Our baby boy (almost a toddler by now, really) is always dressed to be comfy. He hasn’t even worn a pair of jeans in his life, because we thought onesies and tights were a lot more comfy and practical - no buttons or stiff seams, no cold feet, no socks to lose. We don’t dress him in little shirts with a collar, and we make sure he gets to wear mostly natural and soft materials. Shoes (once he starts walking properly) will be ones that are good for growing and developing feet. 

I get that many people want to dress their kids to look cute, but there are so many kids’ clothes and shoes that are both cute AND comfy / appropriate for the activity. Those poor girls having to wear those sandals or shiny, plastic-y Mary Jane type shoes (with little heels even?!) most of the time. They can’t be comfy, nor healthy.

I hope it made you feel good to Mom-shame how many parents dress their kids.  There is nothing wrong with teaching kids young that it is okay to have pride in your appearance by dressing up for special occasions.  Jeans, sandals, and many of the other items you criticized are staples in many kids wardrobes.

Edited December 21, 2021 by Queen Of Hearts

[CanadianMamam]

2 hours ago, GreenBeans said:

I feel so sorry for these kids. Our baby boy (almost a toddler by now, really) is always dressed to be comfy. He hasn’t even worn a pair of jeans in his life, because we thought onesies and tights were a lot more comfy and practical - no buttons or stiff seams, no cold feet, no socks to lose. We don’t dress him in little shirts with a collar, and we make sure he gets to wear mostly natural and soft materials. Shoes (once he starts walking properly) will be ones that are good for growing and developing feet. 

 

My son wore a lot of jeans in his first year because he was a tall, skinny baby and jeans were the only ones that came with expandaple (or retractable) waists. He still wears a ton of jeans for that reason, also he likes them. People dress their kids for a lot of reaosns.

[Ali]

32 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I hope it made you feel good to Mom-shame how many parents dress their kids.  There is nothing wrong with teaching kids young that it is okay to have pride in your appearance by dressing up for special occasions.  Jeans, Sandler's, and many of the other items you criticized are staples in many kids wardrobes.

I understood her child was still a baby. He or she is not walking steadily yet based on my understanding. I personally agree with dressing babies and toddlers in comfortable clothing. I did not see it as an attack on jeans for preschoolers or children. Also, there are sandals that are appropriate for little girls to play in and then there are sandals that look pretty and hurt their feet. Which kind do you think Alyssa's girls wear?

Edited December 21, 2021 by Ali

[JermajestyDuggar]

I think I have a family full of people with sensory issues so we almost always dress for comfort. Which is easy to do these days since there are so many choices in clothing. 

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I hope it made you feel good to Mom-shame how many parents dress their kids.  There is nothing wrong with teaching kids young that it is okay to have pride in your appearance by dressing up for special occasions.  Jeans, sandals, and many of the other items you criticized are staples in many kids wardrobes.

So little Maci has "pride in her appearance" by wearing an oversized dress that inhibits her crawling?

The thing is, little children are beautiful, period. They really can't take a bad picture and they are incredibly cute when their little faces are happy. They can look great in clothes (leggings, sneakers, shorts) that also allow them to play.

Alyssa is not teaching them to take pride in their appearance, She is teaching them that appearance is everything. When she applies mascara to her four-year old's face (there's video of this), what lesson do you think she is teaching? 

One of the most important jobs in early childhood is to explore the enviornment. That's how kids learn. If Lexi or Zoey can't climb that hill because of their stiff shoes, or their white dresses which might get dirty, and this happens over and over again, they are being deprived. They're education is being stunted. That's way more important than "learning to take pride in their appearance."

Truth is, a dressed up 3-year old is not learning to take pride in her appearance. In most cases, it is her mom who is taking pride in her appearance. The 3-year old just knows that her stockings are itchy or she's not allowed to sit in the dirt or run around with the other kids.

My own kids wore comfortable play clothes nearly every day, and got plenty messy and had a lot of fun. At age 11 or 12, all on their own, they started to take pride in their appearance. Didn't need to be taught at all!

1 hour ago, CanadianMamam said:

My son wore a lot of jeans in his first year because he was a tall, skinny baby and jeans were the only ones that came with expandaple (or retractable) waists. He still wears a ton of jeans for that reason, also he likes them. People dress their kids for a lot of reaosns.

I think jeans qualify as appropriate play clothes. I personally dressed my little ones in leggings so they could use the bathroom more easily. We knew one kindergartner who couldn't undo his jeans in time, with disasterous results!

[just_ordinary]

Alyssa very clearly loves to dress up her girls. And not just for Sunday’s or special occasions. But those children wear absolutely fine clothes a lot of the time. You find those picture on IG- even though less than the staged, made up group shot. And much more in her reels/stories. They wear pants and flat shoes a lot and have from the start. Those girls are dressed way more comfortable and appropriately than Alyssa in her childhood. 
Some of it is over the top and tacky (but I would take those Adams family goth dresses over smocked dresses with a white collar every day) but that doesn’t mean it’s generally hindering them all the time.

I find the drama about this really completely overblown……

Spoiler

 

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, Jackie3 said:

She doesn't dress them for comfort or for the development of their gross motor skills. I'm surprised anyone would defend her!

They are wearing normal kid play clothes plenty of the time. For instance, in the Hangman game picture above, Allie is wearing a cotton tee-shirt and what appear to be leggings. In her latest reel, the girls are also wearing cotton tee-shirts with cotton elastic waist skirts and are barefoot. They wore denim and sneakers on their D.C. trip in September. 

There's plenty of valid criticisms of Alyssa (her crappy education approach for one) but sometimes these threads turn into the tomboy girls rolling their eyes at the cheerleaders for daring to like pink. It's fine if some people aren't into fashion, but I feel like we're too old for this?

Edited December 21, 2021 by nausicaa

[Jackie3]

15 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I find the drama about this really completely overblown……

 

True. And it's also true that they are often in shorts and Ts.

I think this was triggered by the utter inappropriateness of putting four little girls in all-white to go strawberry picking. It's just plain narcissistic to plan an outing for the girls then dress them in clothes that ensures they can't do much. 

I also think that dressing little girls up on a regular basis is pretty sexist. I rarely see six-year old boys wearing clothes that inhibit their ability to play around and run, unless it's at church or a wedding. I've seen a first grade class where the little boys were in pants and sneakers, but the little girls were often wearing short dresses or slippery sandals or tight sleeves. As a result, the little boys could do what they wanted at recess, and the girls were more constrained.

1 minute ago, nausicaa said:

There's plenty of valid criticisms of Alyssa, but sometimes these threads turn into the tomboy girls rolling their eyes at the cheerleaders for daring to wear pink. I feel like we're too old for this?

Umm.  . . . Alyssa's girls are too young to be cheerleaders and too young to dress like cheerleaders. A small child's focus is on other things. That's an inappropriate comparison. We are talking about a 1 year old, a 3 year old, and a 4 and 6 year old.

[neuroticcat]

Meh, I also think there is a cultural thing going on. I moved from OR to TN and was shocked at how made up/dressed up everyone was. The Bates girls have this going on already added to their beauty careers/businesses. I don’t know if it’s a FL thing, too, but, in general, dressing up is more normative in southern circles. Like, kids actually have church clothes, etc., yes, the girls, and the boys too - whether it’s seersucker or bow ties or little suits. Admittedly, I’m not a fan of the matching photos and imagine some kids might get tired of it, but some may love it as endless dress up with their mom’s attention. I don’t think it’s a fundie thing either, so feels like personal preference to me. I know plenty of moms who lay out their kids outfits and make sure it coordinates and all the rest. I give her a big pass for this, especially since she’s at least not making them wear matching frumpers. 

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

14 minutes ago, neuroticcat said:

Meh, I also think there is a cultural thing going on. I moved from OR to TN and was shocked at how made up/dressed up everyone was. The Bates girls have this going on already added to their beauty careers/businesses. I don’t know if it’s a FL thing, too, but, in general, dressing up is more normative in southern circles. Like, kids actually have church clothes, etc., yes, the girls, and the boys too - whether it’s seersucker or bow ties or little suits. Admittedly, I’m not a fan of the matching photos and imagine some kids might get tired of it, but some may love it as endless dress up with their mom’s attention. I don’t think it’s a fundie thing either, so feels like personal preference to me. I know plenty of moms who lay out their kids outfits and make sure it coordinates and all the rest. I give her a big pass for this, especially since she’s at least not making them wear matching frumpers. 

 

I think it can be regional. Out west seems more casual than the south from my observations. I guess Midwest is pretty casual too. Although we do know that Gothard encouraged dressing up. He always wanted the males in slacks (not jeans) and a collared shirt. While females had to be in dresses/long skirts with their hair always done. Some of the Bates kids may be used to dressing up because of that. 

Edited December 21, 2021 by JermajestyDuggar

[Melbelle]

Since this started with the strawberry picking dresses, I will say I just think this was meant to be a picturesque outing.  Looking back through them, it's clear that the place is set up for photos like what they did.  In a couple of the photos you can see another woman that has an a cute sundress and flowers in her hand, I wouldn't be surprised if she was doing a photoshoot.  There's also the pictures of the girls on that fancy blue/green velvet couch at the farm.  That seems like a sign that the farm itself is encouraging cute photoshoots.  Why else does a u-pick-it farm have something like that?  

[GreenBeans]

6 hours ago, Ali said:

I understood her child was still a baby. He or she is not walking steadily yet based on my understanding. I personally agree with dressing babies and toddlers in comfortable clothing. I did not see it as an attack on jeans for preschoolers or children. Also, there are sandals that are appropriate for little girls to play in and then there are sandals that look pretty and hurt their feet. Which kind do you think Alyssa's girls wear?

This, exactly! I was talking about dressing babies in stiff, uncomfortable clothes. And yes, I think that jeans are mostly uncomfortable for babies. Jeans are completely fine for kids who are able to walk and run around on a playground. I criticize Alyssa for making her kids work (yes, filming and photo shoots for a monetized instagram and YouTube channel are child labor), and for prioritizing her brand over her children’s comfort and development. Are there worse things than dressing up a one year old with tulle dresses, plastic dress shoes and hair bows? Sure. But there’s always something worse, and that doesn’t mean I can’t feel sorry for those girls.

 

[Mrs Ms]

Why is everyone up in arms about what the girls wore strawberry picking? Look at the photos. There is no mud between the plants. Or anywhere for that matter. The plants are surrounded by plastic and the aisles between are sandy-grass. I think the shoes are more appropriate than sandals as I would be worried about bees and wasps. Do any of you think that neat freak Alyssa doesn’t have industrial strength stain-remover for clothes?  For once the fabric looks like a natural fibre and not polyester crap like some of the other shit that Tikki sends. Actually washable. 
I am planning on taking my kids for Santa photos today. At a plant nursery with a playground. And damn straight they will be wearing cute, somewhat matching clothes they can play in. Even though I have both sexes and a bigger age range! 

Edited December 21, 2021 by Mrs Ms
Range, not gap.

[imokit]

The thing about clothes now a days is that people have washing machines.  Most of even the pretty clothes can be dumped in the washing machine.

You can dress someone up and make them stand for 10mins for pictures before letting them play and get those clothes muddy to go in the washing machine (or even changing their clothes in the car before letting them play).

Even their play clothes and church dresses are a lot more practical than the long dresses Alyssa herself wore as a little girl.

[Jackie3]

1 hour ago, Mrs Ms said:

Why is everyone up in arms about what the girls wore strawberry picking? Look at the photos. There is no mud between the plants.

It's a privilege thing, I guess. Where I live, people go strawberry picking to get strawberries. Whole families are out in the field, including little kids. They pick buckets and buckets of berries, then go home, can them then.  . . use them for food! I'm out in the fields every year, even though it can get pretty hot, and it's hard work to keep bending over.

That's what strawberry picking is about, for many people. A strawberry farm is a place to get strawberries, to can, dry and eat. It's not a photo shoot.

Edited December 22, 2021 by Jackie3

[Mrs Ms]

9 minutes ago, Jackie3 said:

It's a privilege thing, I guess. Where I live, people go strawberry picking to get strawberries. Whole families are out in the field, including little kids. They pick buckets and buckets of berries, then go home, can them then.  . . use them for food! I'm out in the fields every year, even though it can get pretty hot, and it's hard work to keep bending over.

That's what strawberry picking is about, for many people. A strawberry farm is a place to get strawberries, to can, dry and eat. It's not a photo shoot.

How DARE those girls go on a family outing on the weekend? They should be working the fields to put food on the family dining table. Which is glass!!!!! 😱
There is so much to criticise Alyssa about, but the BEC is so off the charts in her threads. Everything she does turns into Mum-shaming. 

[nausicaa]

4 hours ago, neuroticcat said:

Like, kids actually have church clothes, etc., yes, the girls, and the boys too - whether it’s seersucker or bow ties or little suits.

I definitely think it's cultural. My nephew's maternal family is from North Carolina and he wears seersucker suits, knee socks, and bowties for Easter. I also notice my immediate family in Virginia dresses up a lot more for events than my more northern relatives do. (Like I didn't know it was weird to have church clothes for kids if you go to church! 😄)