Bontrager/Bowers 8: Cringeworthy

[Queen Of Hearts]

Okay, I just did some calculations because I am thinking way too much about this. Wasn't Allison married in early September? Even if this was a honeymoon baby it would not be due until early June. I don't know about the rest of you, but where I come from we call June Summer. Not Spring. Things that make you go hmmmmm........

[Bluebirdbluebell]

18 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

Okay, I just did some calculations because I am thinking way too much about this. Wasn't Allison married in early September? Even if this was a honeymoon baby it would not be due until early June. I don't know about the rest of you, but where I come from we call June Summer. Not Spring. Things that make you go hmmmmm........

Jessa called her due date with Ivy "late spring" and she was June 5th. I'm the kind of person who goes by the meteorologial dates for seasons. If she's due in June before the first day of summer that would be late spring for me, as well. 

Allison was married August 15th, not early September. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by Bluebirdbluebell

[Slm1605]

36 minutes ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Jessa called her due date with Ivy "late spring" and she was June 5th. I'm the kind of person who goes by the meteorologial dates for seasons. If she's due in June before the first day of summer that would be late spring for me, as well. 

Allison was married August 15th, not early September. 

First time chiming in to say that an August wedding can create a May baby. My parents married on 4th August and I was born right in the middle of May exactly 36 weeks later. 

[lulumama]

I think the problem is Jeremiah.  I don't think he's that into her.  In most of the pictures of him he seems checked out.  He has such a flat affect that I realize it's hard to tell just by the pictures. But Allison has very little, personal or special, to say about him.  She writes about her marriage as though it was happening to someone else.  There is no warmth or passion, just platitudes and God.  I think she is supremely disappointed.  And now being pregnant she just has to make the best of it.  

[Queen Of Hearts]

1 hour ago, Bluebirdbluebell said:

Jessa called her due date with Ivy "late spring" and she was June 5th. I'm the kind of person who goes by the meteorologial dates for seasons. If she's due in June before the first day of summer that would be late spring for me, as well. 

Allison was married August 15th, not early September. 

Okay, I was mistaken about her wedding date. With a mid August wedding a honeymoon baby would be due in May, so the 'late Spring's wording does make more sense to me. Thanks for the correction re: the date. 

[ophelia]

8 hours ago, 0 kids n not countin said:

Not quiche because real men don't eat quiche. Though real men may not be the same as manly men!!

I had to laugh so so hard when I read this. I love my boyfriend, but cooking isn't one of his strong traits. He is really trying though. By now he makes DELICIOUS (more or less) from scratch tomato sauce that is just perfect over pasta and, now it comes, QUICHE! We discovered that you can buy quiche dough at the supermarket and so that is his new favourite recipe. He googles different fillings/toppings and I have to say it tastes really really good. So I guess he is no manly man, but I couldn't be happier about this.

When it comes to the different foods served at the women's retreat and the manly man camp I'd probably prefer all the meat and burgers and stuff while he would be disgusted and would be happy with a salad and sandwhich ?

1 hour ago, lulumama said:

I think the problem is Jeremiah.  I don't think he's that into her.  In most of the pictures of him he seems checked out.  He has such a flat affect that I realize it's hard to tell just by the pictures. But Allison has very little, personal or special, to say about him.  She writes about her marriage as though it was happening to someone else.  There is no warmth or passion, just platitudes and God.  I think she is supremely disappointed.  And now being pregnant she just has to make the best of it.  

She probably feels like the dates she had with her brother were more romantic than those with her husband. Her upbringing is just so twisted.

[GoddessOfVictory]

I'll jump on the ISB*. Fundamentalism seems to be a ripe place for both creating and harboring abusers. A lot of abusers seem nice at first, then show their true colors later, and with the way most fundie courtships go, I wouldn't be surprised if any red flags were missed or ignored. (If you see the world through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags). Not to mention, if Allison was being forced strongly encouraged by her parents to continue in the relationship.
I didn't watch the wedding, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Jeremiah was described as having physically hauled a woman to church? It doesn't even have to be physical abuse - mental, emotional, verbal, etc, are all damaging.

Not only is Allison isolated from her family but my guess is her family wouldn't offer her much help anyway, at least not her parents. Also, it's possible the reason we haven't seen Allison blog much or talk about anything on Instagram other than godly marriage is because controlling her ability to post is another way of isolating her. If this situation were true, I'm sure the changes and hormones of pregnancy would not be helping.

*This is all just speculation. I have no proof. It's just one possibility that leaps to mind.

[usedbicycle]

@GoddessOfVictory I'm on the same speculation bus as you. Something isn't right when you go from blogging about hairdos, skirts, coffee, favorite pen... to nothing but vague posts on marriage. With old recycled pictures. We even noticed Allison start to dress more conservatively when she was engaged, which to me is a red flag. It's hard to "read" Jeremiah because he seemed so shy and withdrawn at the wedding, but her seeming eagerness to please him is also a red flag in my book. If she's trying so hard, he must demand a lot from her.

Btw if Allison got pregnant on her wedding night her due date would be May 8th. So if the baby is born any time after the end of April I wouldn't assume anything. I personally don't think this was a shotgun wedding... but who knows, we haven't seen her belly so we could be surprised.

[JermajestyDuggar]

Allison is one of the last people I would think would have a shotgun wedding. She’s all about doing things exactly as she should based on her parents’ very high standards. 

[Melissa1977]

8 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Allison is one of the last people I would think would have a shotgun wedding. She’s all about doing things exactly as she should based on her parents’ very high standards. 

Plus those young couples are never alone. I could imagine a Bates* shotgun wedding, but Bontragers? Nope.

*A Bates boy, not a Bates girl.

[Foudeb]

Further theory : Alison may have wanted to go back to work after she was removed from the motel to make space for her brother and made to sing for her supper instead. She may have deluded herself into thinking she had a few months ahead of her, like Bryn had, and a difficult pregnancy may have put those plans on ice for good. 

 

[HereticHick]

39 minutes ago, usedbicycle said:

@GoddessOfVictory I'm on the same speculation bus as you. Something isn't right when you go from blogging about hairdos, skirts, coffee, favorite pen... to nothing but vague posts on marriage. With old recycled pictures.

Totally agree on this. Also think there is unhappiness with her living quarters.  I know that they allegedly have their "own place"  but  we've never seen a photo or heard details; i suspect it isn't much more a sleeping space. I don't believe Ma and Pa have moved out the red-walled house. Allison has posted pics cooking and hosting meals in the big house. Maybe she and Jeremiah are living in a small trailer or something on the property. I would feel very awkward about such an arrangement--I'd feel like a perpetual houseguest of my inlaws.

Also, I wonder if Jeremiah basically disapproves of social media

[usmcmom]

20 hours ago, 0 kids n not countin said:

Not quiche because real men don't eat quiche. Though real men may not be the same as manly men!!

For my birthday, our daughter and son-in-law joined us for afternoon tea at a hotel.  I just love that stuff and my son-in-law had never done this. One of the “savories” was mini quiche and, when he said how much he liked them, I said “Well, real mean eat quiche.”  Those young whippersnappers looked at me like I’d grown a second head. He said “Wait what?” 
 

I heard my husband laughing as I said “Oh. I guess that’s an old expression.”

I guess you had to be there. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by usmcmom
Typo

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

14 minutes ago, usmcmom said:

I heard my husband laughing as I said “Oh. I guess that’s an old expression.”

I first heard the phrase as the title of a satirical book that Google tells me was published in 1982.

Spoiler

 

[becky_m2001]

I apologize in advance for this post because I know that technically this isn't the right thread. But, since there isn't a Wissmann thread I figured this would be the next best place. We've all come to the conclusion that some fundie sibling relationships are weirder than others. The Bontrager girls "dating" their brothers is all kinds of icky. But let me introduce you to the Wissmann version of ick. This is a publicly posted pic of Andrew Wissmann posing with his youngest sister Charissa.

It gives me the creeps...

Edited February 25, 2021 by becky_m2001
Please tell me I'm not the only one creeped out by this!?

[Lgirlrocks]

3 hours ago, usedbicycle said:

@GoddessOfVictory I'm on the same speculation bus as you. Something isn't right when you go from blogging about hairdos, skirts, coffee, favorite pen... to nothing but vague posts on marriage. With old recycled pictures. We even noticed Allison start to dress more conservatively when she was engaged, which to me is a red flag. It's hard to "read" Jeremiah because he seemed so shy and withdrawn at the wedding, but her seeming eagerness to please him is also a red flag in my book. If she's trying so hard, he must demand a lot from her.

Btw if Allison got pregnant on her wedding night her due date would be May 8th. So if the baby is born any time after the end of April I wouldn't assume anything. I personally don't think this was a shotgun wedding... but who knows, we haven't seen her belly so we could be surprised.

Whitney changed how she dressed for kelly. It may have just been for show but who knows. 

[Dominionatrix]

@becky_m2001 there’s a very popular account on Instagram called “Siblings or Dating,” and I’ve always wished they would feature some of our fundie friends. 

[Queen Of Hearts]

11 hours ago, GoddessOfVictory said:

I'll jump on the ISB*. Fundamentalism seems to be a ripe place for both creating and harboring abusers. A lot of abusers seem nice at first, then show their true colors later, and with the way most fundie courtships go, I wouldn't be surprised if any red flags were missed or ignored. (If you see the world through rose-colored glasses, all the red flags just look like flags). Not to mention, if Allison was being forced strongly encouraged by her parents to continue in the relationship.
I didn't watch the wedding, so correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Jeremiah was described as having physically hauled a woman to church? It doesn't even have to be physical abuse - mental, emotional, verbal, etc, are all damaging.

Not only is Allison isolated from her family but my guess is her family wouldn't offer her much help anyway, at least not her parents. Also, it's possible the reason we haven't seen Allison blog much or talk about anything on Instagram other than godly marriage is because controlling her ability to post is another way of isolating her. If this situation were true, I'm sure the changes and hormones of pregnancy would not be helping.

*This is all just speculation. I have no proof. It's just one possibility that leaps to mind.

Oh gosh, I had not even considered the possibility of abuse. Is it bad that I am really hoping my 'pre wedding shenanigans' theory is true rather than this possibility?  I mean, at least that would mean that Allison actually has a fun and happy life.  

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, becky_m2001 said:

I apologize in advance for this post because I know that technically this isn't the right thread. But, since there isn't a Wissmann thread I figured this would be the next best place. We've all come to the conclusion that some fundie sibling relationships are weirder than others. The Bontrager girls "dating" their brothers is all kinds of icky. But let me introduce you to the Wissmann version of ick. This is a publicly posted pic of Andrew Wissmann posing with his youngest sister Charissa.

It gives me the creeps...

There is a Wissmann thread I made. You just have to search for it. It’s not on the front page since they aren’t talked about as often as some families. The thread talks a lot about how they pose for pictures like dating couples. They’ve been doing this for many years. 

[Melissa1977]

1 hour ago, becky_m2001 said:

The Bontrager girls "dating" their brothers is all kinds of icky. But let me introduce you to the Wissmann version of ick. This is a publicly posted pic of Andrew Wissmann posing with his youngest sister Charissa.

OMG OMG I thought you were posting an engagement picture! I was going to say that the couple looked really in love, conversely to Allison and Jeremiah and then I read your post... No words!

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

OMG OMG I thought you were posting an engagement picture! I was going to say that the couple looked really in love, conversely to Allison and Jeremiah and then I read your post... No words!

Charissa is 14. But she’s the youngest of the Wissmanns and has always acted older. Probably because she has no same age siblings. Nate is almost 5 years older than her and he’s second youngest.

[Melissa1977]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

Charissa is 14. But she’s the youngest of the Wissmanns and has always acted older. Probably because she has no same age siblings. Nate is almost 5 years older than her and he’s second youngest.

IMO she looks older than 14 but I'm ashamed for my confussion . On my defense I must say that I just gave a quick look to the picture. The hug and the smiles made me think they were a couple. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

Just now, Melissa1977 said:

IMO she looks older than 14 but I'm ashamed for my confussion . On my defense I must say that I just gave a quick look to the picture. The hug and the smiles made me think they were a couple. 

She does look older than 14. She was the one born when Gloria was 47.

[Giraffe]

4 minutes ago, Melissa1977 said:

IMO she looks older than 14 but I'm ashamed for my confussion . On my defense I must say that I just gave a quick look to the picture. The hug and the smiles made me think they were a couple. 

I’m right there with you. I thought it was an after wedding photo of a couple until I read the caption. 

[neurogirl]

Ok I know the speculation bus is fun, but there is a -80% chance that there was a Allison/Jeremiah baby in the oven before the wedding. These two don't even seem like they know/like each other that well yet, much less rushed into bed earlier. PLUS Allison is full in the fundie koolaid. Unless there was some horrible type of non-consent, this baby is a honeymoon or later baby. And she's insufferable but I still feel bad for her. 

I've posted about my marriage here before. My husband is truly a great man, but we went through some hard life events almost immediately after marriage (FIL very nearly died to the point hubby had to fly across the country to "say goodbye", hubby entered depression after FIL's degenerative diagnosis with some unhealthy self-medication, pelvic floor dysfunction and medication shit making sex nearly impossible, new jobs, geographical isolation from our community). Already prone to anxiety and perfectionism, I completely spiraled and was terrified our marriage was a mistake. If he was "the one", surely life shouldn't be this hard? And I had dated my husband for 6 years before that, he was my best friend, etc. After life calming down, therapy for all of us, working on our physical/emotional health and communication I feel so much better (and my husband really is such a good match for my soul). But those thoughts of doubt about my marriage were HORRIBLE. I cannot overstate how shitty those feelings felt. I wanted to physically excise them out of my body and I cried at night, not because of anything my husband did or didn't do, but those thoughts of doubt.

I think she's dealing with really painful thoughts right now, thinking everything would be blessed and easy and realizing it just doesn't happen like that.  I can't even imagine Allison following every. rule. to. the. letter, marrying because she was terrified of being an old maid, and then marriage just not being that great right away. And a honeymoon baby. AND no easy access to individual or couples' therapy/counseling. Yes Allison had some say in all of this but it's still so tragic. 

Edited February 25, 2021 by neurogirl