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GreyhoundFan

Government Response to Coronavirus 3: Locked Down

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clueliss

based on his speech patterns during the pressers for the last few days - someone go tell him that he only wins the war against the invisible enemy if we duke this out til the end so he has to keep it shut down past Easter.

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HerNameIsBuffy
29 minutes ago, Ticklish said:

I thought this was a very clear video of what's at risk. I've shared it around my Facebook to show people what the numbers behind 2% really are. Because people don't seem to grasp that that's a lot of people. 

 

This video is excellent.  I second sharing this with everyone who doesn't get it.  Thank you for posting this.

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Spent
clueliss

The moron makes me so mad.   I want to throw things during today’s presser,

Ray county and Randolph County (Moberly) are going stay at home.  

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47of74

Uh-oh Kimmy isn't staying on script and is having independent thoughts.

Quote

Iowa Gov. Kim Reynolds says she will make her own independent decisions about when to advise Iowans to resume business amid the coronavirus outbreak regardless of when President Donald Trump gives the all-clear.

Iowa Gov. Kim Reynolds speaks during a news conference about an update on the state's response to the new coronavirus outbreak, Friday, March 13, 2020, in Johnston, Iowa. (AP Photo/Charlie Neibergall)

Trump said Tuesday he hoped the U.S. could be "opened up" by Easter.

Reynolds said Tuesday the number of positive cases of COVID-19 has grown by another 19, bringing the state total to 124 confirmed cases. The illness caused by the coronavirus is now found in 30 of Iowa's 99 counties.

Wait til fuck face sees this.  I imagine he and Kimmy's Koch brother / ALEC benefactors will have shit fits over this.

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GreyhoundFan

A good one from Eugene Robinson: "Trump, as usual, is just making things worse"

Quote

The nation is suffering through a terrible crisis. Day by day, tweet by tweet, unhinged briefing by unhinged briefing, President Trump is making it worse. That is a hard conclusion to reach, even for someone like me who has long considered Trump one of the worst presidents in our history.

The covid-19 pandemic is the definition of a moment when everyone should hope and pray for strong, smart, steady presidential leadership. Indeed, the restrictions Trump imposed against travel from China and Europe, where the novel coronavirus was running rampant — whether his motives were scientific or xenophobic — had a good impact. He bought us some time. But then he squandered it.

If you can bear to watch Trump’s performances during the daily White House update briefings, you can only conclude that any effective federal response is happening not because of the commander in chief, but despite him.

The essential problem, of course, is the president’s unshakable view that everything is always, always about him. As Alice Roosevelt Longworth once said about her father, President Theodore Roosevelt, Trump insists on being “the corpse at every funeral, the bride at every wedding and the baby at every christening.” This is a moment for selflessness, but Trump has shown no capacity to think of anything other than himself.

We are asked to stay home and avoid one another, at great economic and psychological cost, to keep the covid-19 pandemic from overwhelming the nation’s health system. The crisis calls for shared sacrifice. Yet at Sunday’s briefing, Trump went on and on about why he will not make the commitment to sacrifice any potential bailout funds for which his hotel properties might qualify.

“You know, every time I do it, like, for instance, I committed publicly that I wouldn’t take the $450,000 salary [as president],” he said. “It’s a lot of money. Whether you’re rich or not, it’s a lot of money. And I did it. Nobody cared. Nobody — nobody said thank you. Nobody said thank you very much.”

There are others who deserve that “thank you very much” and more: the front-line health-care workers who are dangerously reusing protective masks and gowns because such vital gear remains in desperately short supply; the millions of workers in the restaurant and hotel industries who have lost their jobs and in many cases have no savings or benefits to tide them over; the millions of retirees who have seen their 401(k) balances evaporate; the millions of parents who are trying to work their office jobs from their kitchen tables while home-schooling their children while keeping tabs on their elderly relatives who are most vulnerable to the virus.

It is not too much to expect a president to show his gratitude for the sacrifices his citizens are making by doing everything he can to support them, rather than whine that the nation is not thanking him. Yet who believes, at this point, that we will ever see such moral leadership from Trump?

Since that’s not coming, I’d settle for practical leadership. But we aren’t getting that from Trump, either. He could have compelled the production of protective medical gear and lifesaving ventilators. He could have ordered the military to distribute these supplies. He could have spelled out a national “social distancing” policy rather than allow a patchwork of different rules in different jurisdictions.

And he could have called in the leaders of both the House and the Senate and insisted that they work together to quickly pass the massive trillion-dollar bailout package that is sorely needed to keep what is left of the economy afloat. Instead, Trump refuses to talk to Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) and busies himself retweeting political attacks against likely Democratic nominee Joe Biden.

We are basically on our own. And, all things considered, across much of the country, we’re doing pretty well given the circumstances.

Governors, notably Andrew M. Cuomo of New York, have stepped up to exercise the kind of political leadership we need and provide calming day-to-day narration of the crisis. Medical experts — led by the ubiquitous and irreplaceable Anthony S. Fauci, whom I’d like to encase in bubble wrap to protect his health — politely correct Trump’s pseudoscience with real science. In my immediate community, few people are ignoring the social-distancing mandates. Congress is grinding its way, messily, toward a relief package.

“I want America to understand, this week, it’s going to get bad,” Surgeon General Jerome M. Adams said on Monday. Trump has the power and the platform to make us confident that things will eventually get better, but he either can’t or won’t. We must continue to comfort and reassure ourselves.

 

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WiseGirl

Connecticut is up 200 cases in one day.  CT/NY/NJ are working together with the smaller states (CT & NJ) following Cuomo. 

Bless the 900 doctors and nurses coming out of retirement to help.

It's going to get worse before it gets better and mango moron wants everyone to magically be back after Easter. He really, really is an idiot. And that is me using my nice words to describe him today.

https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-update-0324-20200324-5mkjfzjlcjcqtm6rz7wtutz2wy-story.htmlL

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47of74
16 minutes ago, WiseGirl said:

Connecticut is up 200 cases in one day.  CT/NY/NJ are working together with the smaller states (CT & NJ) following Cuomo. 

Bless the 900 doctors and nurses coming out of retirement to help.

It's going to get worse before it gets better and mango moron wants everyone to magically be back after Easter. He really, really is an idiot. And that is me using my nice words to describe him today.

https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-update-0324-20200324-5mkjfzjlcjcqtm6rz7wtutz2wy-story.htmlL

I no longer bother using nice words to describe that orange sack of shit and total fuckstick.  Otherwise I'd have an aneurysm trying to keep it all bottled up.

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WiseGirl
2 hours ago, 47of74 said:

I no longer bother using nice words to describe that orange sack of shit and total fuckstick.  Otherwise I'd have an aneurysm trying to keep it all bottled up.

Maybe I was just being generous today because the shit show of work used up all my more colorful vocabulary words. I doubt will ever be that nice in describing him, the mango moron who can't get his head out of his ass.

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Waffle Time
JMarie

My county in PA is under "stay at home" orders from the  governor, and schools are closed until at least April 6.

I think Trump is upset by all this because it's causing his economy to crumble.  He doesn't give a fuck about morbidity or the economic struggle of working class Americans.  The economy was all he could be proud of.  He didn't dismantle Obamacare, like he said he would, and he didn't build a wall, like he said he would.  The stock market did go up and unemployment did go down (both overall and within subgroups of the population). Not anymore.  The stock market is down, unemployment is up (hopefully temporarily), and he's losing money at all his properties.

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Ozlsn

Australia has moved to stage 2 restrictions. Basically more things are closed - beauticans, nail salons, weddings can only have 5 people (effectively the legal minimum), funerals can have 10 (no one is quite sure why the difference) and hairdressers/barber's can stay open but haircuts must take 30 minutes maximum and there must be 4sq metres between people.

Comedians are having a field day trying to work out how anyone can cut hair while 4m away.  I have to admit I'm now thinking about where I can buy henna, as the numerous Zoom meetings are making me hyper aware of how grey my hair is getting! 

Meanwhile we have 2,423 confirmed cases in Australia, but to quote the government website "the situation is changing rapidly". We know that that only reflects the serious cases - unfortunately until we have wider-spread testing we won't know the true extent of transmission. 

Real estate auctions and open for inspections are also cancelled, which may or may not herald the end of the housing boom. 

I'm trying to support my local cafe while working from home because I like them and their coffee. Takeaway only though, and no keep cups. 

And meanwhile the Centrelink website is still having issues and people are lining up to register - which is pretty much what no one wanted. Every time they make a sensible decision they fail to plan for foreseeable outcomes, sigh.

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fraurosena
Posted (edited)

Mostly European update:

  • Death toll keeps rising in Europe -- only Italy's seems to be flattening somewhat
  • There is now a not-quite-total lockdown in the Netherlands; too many people were ignoring the 1.5 meter distancing rule. Now you can be fined for not keeping your distance; more businesses have been closed (hairdressers, physiotherapists etc) ; people must work from home unless they have essential jobs; people should stay inside as much as possible
  • Government is preparing for an economic recession due to the pandemic.
  • 1.3 billion Indians are in lockdown; this caused long queues in front of supermarkets and pharmacies.
  • Scientists have found that blood plasma could help with curing COVID-patients; the antibodies the plasma contains could combat the virus in sick patients. The effectiveness of such a transfusion is now being studied.
  • Italy is raising the fines for ignoring the lockdown from 200 euro to 400 and up to 3000 euro.
  • New Zealand is now in a state of emergency for the coming 7 days.
  • The sponsor bicycle run 'Alpe D'HuZes' for cancer research has been cancelled. 
  • There has now been a confirmed case in Libya where the healthcare system is crumbling. Tests, protective gear, and medical personnel are in extremely short supply.
  • SEVERELY WTF: In a speech Brazilian president Bolsonaro called the COVID-19 virus a 'minor flu' that he isn't susceptible to because of his athletic background. Life should get back to normal as soon as possible. Closing schools is stupid, because 'only old people get sick'. He also said the media have hyped the situation by showing images from Italy. Brazil doesn't have to worry about similar situations happening there because they have less elderly people. 
  • School exams in the Netherlands have been cancelled. Where possible, students will have passed or not according to their work up until now.
  • The Dutch patient Zero - who was hospitalised for a couple of days - has fully recovered and is back at work. His wife and daughter have also recovered and are doing well.
  • Greta Tunberg has been in quarantine for two weeks because she had COVID-19 symptoms. As she wasn't seriously ill, she wasn't tested. Her father also became ill, but had it worse than she did. On social media she is now calling for the younger generation to stick to social distancing and other rules.
  • Belgium is fed up with 'corona-violators' and is issuing fines of up to 4000 euro. Businesses that violate the rules can be closed, and its inventory impounded. They are also taking measures against the sale of medical and protective materials against exploitatively high prices. They will be risking up to 5 year jail sentences and million euro fines.
  • Ramadan, the islamic month-long period of fasting, which is ended with the Eid al Fitr feast, is going to be different than usual. Apart from fasting during daylight hours, communal evening prayers are an important part of Ramadan; but now prayer services will be live-streamed. The Iftar, the meal with which the daily fast is broken in the evening will not be as it always was with many people coming together and sharing each others food.
  • Israel has closed its synagogues and other prayer locations. People aren't allowed to be more than 110 metres from their houses, unless they have an essential job.

Personally:

I had a terrible day yesterday. I felt anxious, depressed and lethargic -- which is very out of character for me. It turns out I forgot to take my vitamin D supplement a couple of times and I was paying the price. I have a bad vitamin D deficiency and need to take a supplement daily. After taking a dose last night, I felt much better when I woke up this morning, thank goodness. 

I really am enjoying the quiet a lot. Because of the near-lockdown, there is hardly any traffic, nor are there many people out and about. Spring has arrived and the birds are getting ready to pair up again. Their songs and tweets and chirps and chatter fill the air. It's sunny and bright outside and walking the dogs now has the added pleasure of enjoying the birds and the weather more than usual. It's like being on vacation.

There are now 15 confirmed cases in my town, 5 cases in my parents town, and 15 where my son and DIL live. 

Edited by fraurosena
riffles
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Meh
Dandruff

Nearly 6 AM here and I just finished braving the elements to do my laundry without (hopefully) becoming a COVID-19 statistic.  And I had to wait an hour in the middle of the night - apparently I'm not the only one here who's taking social distancing very seriously - to do it.  Bitching aside, I'm thrilled it's done and will be carefully handwashing small items to delay having to do it again anytime soon.

Haven't shopped in over two weeks and, while my fridge and freezer are noticeably less full than they were, I still think I have enough to last another few weeks if I continue rationing the protein somewhat.

5 minutes ago, fraurosena said:

I had a terrible day yesterday. I felt anxious, depressed and lethargic -- which is very out of character for me. It turns out I forgot to take my vitamin D supplement a couple of times and I was paying the price. I have a bad vitamin D deficiency and need to take a supplement daily. After taking a dose last night, I felt much better when I woke up this morning, thank goodness.

Glad you're feeling better and thanks for the inadvertent reminder - I just took a Vitamin D.  I now need to get off the Internet, take a shower, and try to get some sleep.

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Ozlsn

One of the medical research institutes here is trialling a drug as a preventative against infection in healthcare workers.

Spoiler

 drug that can potentially shield people from coronavirus is to be rolled out to front line Victorian healthcare workers within four weeks.

The breakthrough medical trial by Melbourne’s Walter and Eliza Hall Institute of Medical Research hopes to block people from COVID-19 infections for as long as the daily pills are taken, eliminating the need to treat them and allowing the health system to continue operating.

If successful laboratory testing can be replicated in the human trial – involving 2250 nurses, doctors, paramedics and allied healthcare workers – the use of anti-malaria drug hydroxychloroquine is also touted as a way of saving the lives of nursing home residents and others most at risk from the pandemic.

Although other trials are examining hydroxychloroquine as part of a potential cure for coronavirus, the WEHI team led by Prof Marc Pellegrini intendeds to take its use a step further as a preventive measure.

“We are giving them this before they are exposed (to coronavirus), and obviously the drug will be on-board when they are exposed and the hope is it stops the establishment of the infection of the disease,” Prof Pellegrini said.

“It’s incredibly heartwarming to see you are finding something that might actually be able to prevent the devastation that COVID-19 is causing.”

If they get half way and it looks like it might work they'll expand the trial.

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fraurosena

Prince Charles tests positive for COVID-19

Quote

Prince Charles has tested positive for the coronavirus, Clarence House says. The 71-year-old is displaying mild symptoms, but is otherwise in “good health”, it said. The Duchess of Cornwall, 72, has also been tested but does not have the virus.

"In accordance with government and medical advice, the Prince and the Duchess are now self-isolating at home in Scotland,” the statement said. "The tests were carried out by the NHS (National Health Service) in Aberdeenshire, where they met the criteria required for testing. "It is not possible to ascertain from whom the Prince caught the virus owing to the high number of engagements he carried out in his public role during recent weeks."

Buckingham Palace said the Queen last saw Prince Charles two weeks ago.

“The Queen last saw the Prince of Wales briefly on 12 March and is following all the appropriate advice with regard to her welfare. We will not be commenting further,” it said.

The Prince’s last public engagement was on March 12, but he did have a number of private meetings with Highgrove and Duchy individuals, all of whom have been made aware. A source said his doctor’s most conservative estimate was that the Prince was contagious on March 13.

A small number of people living and working at Birkhall remain at the residence and self-isolating.

The source said the Prince and the Duchess remained in good spirits and the prince was up and about and not bedridden.Medical advice is that it’s unlikely to escalate into a more serious case.

Charles has spoken to his sons, the Duke of Cambridge and the Duke of Sussex, as well as the Queen.

The Queen, 93, is currently at Windsor Castle after heading there a week earlier than planned amid the coronavirus panic. Her husband Prince Philip, 98, joined her there after flying from Sandringham, while Prince William remains in Norfolk.

There were fears for the Queen earlier this week when a worker at Buckingham Palace contracted the disease. The aide, who has not been named, fell ill and tested positive while the monarch was still at her London residence. “We wouldn’t comment on individual members of staff,” a palace spokesman said. “In line with the appropriate guidance and our own processes, we have taken the necessary actions to protect all employees and people involved.”

The Queen is now set to remain in Windsor for the foreseeable future.

“As Philip and I arrive at Windsor today, we know that many individuals and families across the United Kingdom, and around the world, are entering a period of great concern and uncertainty,” she said in a statement last week.

“Many of us will need to find new ways of staying in touch with each other and making sure that loved ones are safe. I am certain we are up to that challenge. You can be assured that my family and I stand ready to play out part.”

 

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Spent
clueliss

Greene County MO will be going to stay at home.  This is the Springfield area.  
 

if it’s not that bad why is Brazil building a field hospital on the Olympic soccer field?  
 

oh and Callaway County  MO figures are wonky.  They reported 10 cases at William Woods university (Fulton) and it sounds like that wasn’t shut down (until now). They South Callaway County school district published a warning. Because one of the positive cases was a student teacher.

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fraurosena
6 minutes ago, clueliss said:

if it’s not that bad why is Brazil building a field hospital on the Olympic soccer field?  

Presidents may be complete morons, but thankfully the people mostly are are not.

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GreyhoundFan

It looks like the spending bill may pass the senate: "Senate to vote Wednesday on $2 trillion coronavirus bill after landmark agreement with White House"

Spoiler

The Senate plans to vote Wednesday afternoon on a $2 trillion stimulus package that is designed to flood the U.S. economy with money in an effort to stabilize households and businesses that have been floored by the coronavirus outbreak.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) and Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer (D-N.Y.) announced the breakthrough on the Senate floor around 1:30 a.m., after a long day of talks with Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin and other administration officials.

The Senate reconvenes at midday, and a vote could come shortly after that.

“This is a very important bipartisan piece of legislation that is going to be very important to help American workers, American business and people across America,” Mnuchin told reporters early Wednesday morning. “We couldn’t be more pleased.”

He said he had “spoken to the president many times today; he’s very pleased with this legislation and the impact that this is going to have.”

The legislation, unprecedented in its size and scope, would send $1,200 checks to many Americans, create a $367 billion loan program for small businesses, and establish a $500 billion lending fund for industries, cities and states.

The legislation ensures that these taxpayer-backed loans cannot go to firms owned by President Trump, other White House officials or members of Congress. This would suggest that Trump-owned properties, including hotels that have been impacted, cannot seek taxpayer assistance.

Other provisions include $150 billion for state and local stimulus funds and $130 billion for hospitals.

It would significantly boost unemployment insurance benefits, expanding eligibility and offering workers an additional $600 a week for four month, on top of what state unemployment programs pay. Millions of Americans have filed for unemployment benefits in the past few weeks, flooding a system that isn’t designed to cope with a sudden wave of applicants.

As the bill was coming together in the final days, Democrats fought to make numerous changes. For example, the White House and Republicans agreed to allow an oversight board and create a Treasury Department special inspector general for pandemic recovery to scrutinize the lending decisions and detect abusive or fraudulent behavior.

“Every loan document will be public and made available to Congress very quickly, so we can see where the money is going, what the terms are and if it’s fair to the American people,” Schumer said on the Senate floor Wednesday.

After Senate passage, the next step is a little less clear. The House is out of session, so action there could take longer, depending on whether lawmakers can agree to pass the bill by “unanimous consent,” which would require agreement from all members of the chamber.

But some liberals and conservatives have already hinted they could oppose it.

Tuesday began with all parties predicting a deal would be imminent, along with a vote by Tuesday evening. But as the hours dragged on, multiple disputes arose and legislative language required close review.

Finally, as midnight neared Tuesday, the pace of shuttle diplomacy picked up on the second floor of the Capitol, as Mnuchin, White House Legislative Affairs Director Eric Ueland and the newly named White House chief of staff, Rep. Mark Meadows (R-N.C.), met alternately with McConnell and Schumer, who was in frequent contact with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.).

“You know, I wouldn’t say there were any thorny, any particular thorny issues. This is a very complicated piece of legislation. It’s a very large investment in the U.S. economy,” Mnuchin told reporters after the deal was struck. “And people worked tirelessly around the clock going through the documents. So, again, couldn’t be more pleased.”

Mnuchin said Trump would “absolutely, absolutely, absolutely” sign the bill.

The package would extend extraordinary taxpayer assistance to potentially millions of companies that have been hammered by the fast-moving economic crisis. The bill is being rushed through Congress without public hearings or formal review, and it’s unclear how effective the measures would be in arresting the economy’s sudden fall. But lawmakers said they had little choice but to try.

“This is not a moment of celebration but one of necessity,” Schumer said.

After falling 10,000 points in 10 weeks, the Dow Jones industrial average began showing signs of life Tuesday in anticipation of a deal. It surged more than 2,100 points, or 11.4 percent. The government is dealing with a number of competing pressures, though, as Trump declared that he’d like much of the country to be up and running by April 12, even though the number of people testing positive for the novel virus in the United States continues to climb.

“In effect, this is a wartime level of investment into our nation,” McConnell said.

White House National Economic Council Director Larry Kudlow called it the “single largest Main Street assistance program in the history of the United States.”

The delay in finalizing a deal came, in part, because aides launched a painstaking scrub of the bill’s text, to make sure that one of the most ambitious pieces of legislation ever attempted by Congress — thrown together in little over a week — actually said what lawmakers wanted it to say.

Senate Republicans were being extra meticulous because they felt an earlier and much smaller coronavirus relief bill, which Mnuchin negotiated in a rush with Pelosi this month, turned out to have provisions related to paid sick leave that GOP senators opposed — but which they reluctantly accepted. Now, they wanted to double- and triple-check Mnuchin’s work in brokering a deal with Schumer, given the enormous stakes.

Trump has already said he wants some of the money to go to the cruise ship industry, and he also wants assistance for hotels. When he was asked Monday evening who would perform oversight of the program, Trump responded, “I’ll be the oversight.”

But during closed-door negotiations on Capitol Hill, White House officials agreed to allow an independent inspector general and an oversight board to scrutinize the lending decisions, senators said.

The most recent precedent for this is the $700 billion Troubled Asset Relief Program that was created during the 2008 financial crisis. To oversee TARP, Congress created an independent inspector general, a regulatory oversight board and a congressional oversight panel. Over the course of several years, investigations uncovered numerous cases of fraud at large and small companies as firms sought to obtain taxpayer money through various programs.

Lawmakers of both parties are under extreme pressure from their constituents and health-care providers in their districts and states to act to provide desperately needed money and supplies amid widespread shortages and waves of layoffs. As of Tuesday night, there were more than 55,000 confirmed cases of the coronavirus in the United States, and the numbers were rising by the hour.

Final issues included a push by Democrats for a dramatic increase in food stamp benefits in exchange for accepting billions more in funding for the administration’s farm bailout that Republicans have included in the stimulus bill. Sen. John Hoeven (R-N.D.) said in a news release that the legislation would increase the amount the Agriculture Department can spend on its bailout program from $30 billion to $50 billion.

Democratic aides said they were optimistic that a strong bipartisan Senate vote would make it possible to pass the bill by unanimous consent in the House — a process requiring only two members present in the House chamber. But that would require every lawmaker to agree — a tall order for a $2 trillion bill touching every part of the U.S. economy.

“The easiest way for us to do it is to put aside our concerns for another day and get this done,” Pelosi said Tuesday on CNBC. “My goal always has been to bring this bill to the floor under unanimous consent.”

However, any lawmaker of either party could object, and in an early warning sign Tuesday, Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (D-N.Y.) voiced concern about the legislation over Twitter, writing that despite “vague statements,” no one had seen text of the legislation that “seems to give a *HALF TRILLION DOLLARS* away to big corporations, w/ few worker protections.”

Among House Republicans, there is similar reluctance to commit to approving a still-unseen bill, according to GOP aides familiar with internal conversations. Besides potential policy objections inherent in a $2 trillion bill, members might also resist passing a bill of that magnitude without a formal vote, the aides said — thus requiring most lawmakers to return to Washington.

If unanimous consent is not possible, aides of both parties said the most likely scenario would be a day-long vote where members would be encouraged to spread out their trips to the floor and not congregate as the vote is taken.

“We need this to get working for the American people,” Mnuchin said. “And again, there are a lot of compromises. It’s a terrific bill. And it was a great accomplishment for everyone.”

At least two House members and one senator have tested positive for the coronavirus, while others remained quarantined, and multiple lawmakers have voiced trepidation about returning to the Capitol.

Congress has already passed two much smaller coronavirus relief bills: an $8.3 billion emergency supplemental for the health-care system and a $100-billion-plus bill to boost paid sick leave and unemployment insurance and provide free coronavirus testing.

 

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CarrotCake

I am a bit late to the discussion but here (Netherlands) the mortality rates are quite high because it is very common here for (elderly) people to refuse treatment. Actually, at this point, 75% of the Corona-deaths here did not get admitted to the IC or even to the hospital because they (or their family) did not want to.

That's what also makes it hard to compare countries, we all have different ways of working.

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elliha
7 minutes ago, CarrotCake said:

I am a bit late to the discussion but here (Netherlands) the mortality rates are quite high because it is very common here for (elderly) people to refuse treatment. Actually, at this point, 75% of the Corona-deaths here did not get admitted to the IC or even to the hospital because they (or their family) did not want to.

That's what also makes it hard to compare countries, we all have different ways of working.

Yeah, this is also important. I know Sweden doesn't really put someone in a respirator if they are not expected to actually be able to get through it. Many of the eldery who have died have been in the hospital but not in the highest level of care. If it is someone who is has several preexisting medical conditions and there is little hope of recovery I think it is quite reasonable to not do aboslutely everything. Yes, that is true if it was one of my relatives too. I have at least two who are in such a position and if they get covid they will likely not get a respirator, only lower level care and then pallitive care if it doesn't go the right way and I am fine with that, they are old and fragile and even a common cold could have done the same thing.

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CarrotCake

@elliha that indeed sounds similar. I know my grandmother also would not want to go through all the treatment if she gets sick. Minor treatment yes, of course. But not the IC treatment. 

As far as I know, in some other countries, like Italy, this is unheard off. Please correct me if I'm wrong @Italiangirl

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HerNameIsBuffy
8 hours ago, JMarie said:

I think Trump is upset by all this because it's causing his economy to crumble. 

I think he's also upset that the governors have the power in this and are getting high praise for leadership that he's never known.

In addition to the fact that he's actually having to work now and can't soothe his narcissistic injury of being in so over his head with rallys and such.

I need to know where his approval numbers are coming from.  WHO are they polling?  Everyone I know, even former Trumpers, would like him strung up right now.

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Waffle Time
Italiangirl
Posted (edited)

I know that in the worst hit part of the country some hospitals in the past days have unfortunately been forced down to decide to who give access to the respiratory support because for many people, even if they survive to the virus there will be too much damage to the lungs to have a chance to survive without the oxygen administrated with a positive force  (the respiratory support not only breathe for you, but they also push the oxygen in the lungs with a slightly higher pressure this way even if your tissue is damaged your body could still receive the oxygen you need) and since this virus basically turn your lungs tissues into a fibrotic tissue even after it has eradicated from your body often there will be long term consequence, so now in some cases when they see from the exam the lungs are too damage to give someone a good outcome the doctors have to decide if administer to the worst case a shot of morphine so that they could relax and died without suffering. This is what some medical friends who work in the hospital setting have told me, for now is just some elderly patient here and there those who are already too sick to live a good life. We hope that the last 3 days trend will be confirmed again this afternoon especially for those in the IC where yesterday the pressure has gone down a little bit  since there has been less cases that have to be downgraded from sub intensive care to Ic. Hope i have been able to explain what is going in here clearly since sometimes id harder even for us to understand exactly what is going on...if you want you could search for the x-ray of covid 19 patient you will see some withe in the lungs that is the part that is not working anymore 

 

Edited by Italiangirl
fixing some spelling errors

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laPapessaGiovanna
Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, CarrotCake said:

@elliha that indeed sounds similar. I know my grandmother also would not want to go through all the treatment if she gets sick. Minor treatment yes, of course. But not the IC treatment. 

As far as I know, in some other countries, like Italy, this is unheard off. Please correct me if I'm wrong @Italiangirl

Well it depends. If an elderly person refuses care (as many do) nobody is going to force them to go through with it. If the elderly patient doesn't express any such wish then they'll be cared for in the best possible way and this may even mean that they aren't going to intubate someone who isn't going to survive the procedure, especially now.

But if said elderly person is otherwise healthy and strong as they can be at their age it's fair to give them the best possibility to fight. My grandma is 89 and, quite uncommonly at her age, has no underlying conditions beyond a slightly underfunctioning thyroid that she has been successfully treating for 30 yrs. I would expect her to be given a chance to fight should she fall ill (knocks on wood).

Edited by laPapessaGiovanna

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