Hipster Churches; Still Fundie

[Howl]

I've been noticing a religious cultural trend around my city (Austin, TX) lately.  An older church, that may have been a mainstream denomination, is now something called The Joshua Church.  A building along the interstate is now the Mosaic Church.  There's also a Servant Church and a Dreamer's Church.  What do they all have in common?  Coffee!  Accommodation for families with kids.  Music, lots of music and sometimes a band for the worship and praise songs.  Lots of praise songs!  Small groups.  Very, very slick web site.  Come as you are dress recommendations (jeans!).  Did I mention a belief in Biblical inerrancy?  Have any of you seen this trend in your area?  Austin is growing at a staggering rate, and many moving here are young and single, or young families. There are multiple universities.  UT Austin has around 50,000 grad and undergrad students.  I can see how this would be appealing.  IIRC, when Faith Pennington first moved to Austin, she was involved with a church like this. 

You can check them out here: 

• Joshua Church
• Dreamer's Church
• Mosaic Church
• Servant Church (Methodist)  

When Doug Phillips was dealing with the scandal, he came up to Austin and joined a very old, very wealthy, very traditional and still very successful Baptist church -- Hyde Park Baptist.   Hyde Park Baptist bought a very nice property  just off an expressway, and built an entire campus (The Quarries) which they refer to as a "The Quarries Recreation & Fitness Ministries,  located on 57 beautiful acres in northwest Austin that is rich in history."  I cannot even describe how valuable this property is and how much it removes from the tax rolls.  It has a church, or course.  

• Quarries Sports and Recreation Ministry
• The Quarries Church

I'm using the term "hipster" as a catchall, but I think y'all know what I mean -- hip but kinda wholesome young people.  My city also has serious skinny jean hipsters everywhere.  They aren't drinking coffee at church; they are swilling expensive lattes and espressos in coffee shops, which are everywhere in East Austin.  

Edited January 28, 2020 by Howl

[JermajestyDuggar]

This makes complete sense to me in a marketing way. No one young wants to go to stuffy boring churches with just regular services and an occasional Sunday lunch and a week of VBS in the summer. People want more. If you are going to draw people in, you need to offer a lot for them to get them out of bed on Sunday mornings. 

[Marmion]

Oh yes , I know what you're talking about . Two examples come to mind . They are Pentecostal , to be exact , but they try to hide their sectarian ties , and locate themselves in various shopping malls .  https://rustcity.church   https://www.cranberrychurch.org 

[Cleopatra7]

I’ve seen ads for Mosaic churches on the trains in Boston. I’m pretty sure there’s also one in my hometown of Atlanta. I think the goal of these hipster churches is to not make them seem like churches by removing many of the attributes we associate with them. The one word names are akin to what one might name a trendy bar or restaurant, rather than a church with a traditional name like X Street Baptist Church or YourNeighborhood Methodist Church. Ignoring the beliefs aspect, the aesthetic of these hipster churches (and mega churches in general) are less religious and more reminiscent of that other great American institution, the mall. I guess that screams “success” and “modernity” to the target audience. I’ve also noticed that there seems to be a lot of crying during the praise music events, something you wouldn’t see in a more (outwardly) conservative Church where the repertoire is mostly 100+ hymns. I wonder if part of the appeal is the perceived catharsis achieved through these mass events.

[dripcurl]

My brother-in-law decided to visit church for the first time in a few years. He visited one near our house that I haven’t been to but one that someone told me try once. It sounds like a hipster fundie church. One thing I was very disturbed by with the fact that they had real wine at communion and they didn’t offer an alternative. He is a recovering alcoholic. I am so glad that he didn’t partake because then not only would he have had a relapse, but it would’ve been triggered by the church. It would be more than ironic, it would be reprehensible. 

[raspberrymint]

I sampled a few hipster churches while faith shopping.  I like the emphasis on community and families, but the actual sermons were either very boring, very empty, or both.  Contrast that to the Unitarian Universalist church that also loves coffee, community, and family, but actually talks about interesting things, and they're stereotyped as being "about nothing" while these Christian groups actually are!  Nothing, fundamentalists in disguise, narcissistic self-help, or a combination of the three.

[smittykins]

In the Episcopal Church, you have the option to not partake of the cup, which you signal by crossing your arms over your chest.(My mom’s SO is also a recovering alcoholic, and when I mentioned that to my priest during my marriage preparation, that’s what he told me.)

[Pecansforeveryone]

Don't forget the "Cool" churches. Literally,The Cool Church. When I lived in Tucson a decade ago, there were at least 3 campuses. 

@dripcurl, yeah I had the same reaction you did to hearing about Cool churches. 

[Denim Jumper]

A few of those hipster churches have popped up in my area. It’s funny because, aesthetically, they all have a industrial-warehouse-coffee-shop-rock- concert vibe... but the doctrine and culture are no different than any other conservative evangelical church. 

Mr. Denim Jumper was raised in a conservative Baptist church, and when he broke away from it about 10 years ago, his big act of rebellion was to start going to one of those hipster churches.

Mercifully, we didn’t stay for long. I’m not going to criticize their worship style (I save my umbrage for their toxic beliefs)... but I found the whole atmosphere to be a sensory overload (I’m Quaker, so there’s that). My husband and two of our children loved the energy (damn extroverts), but I and our youngest child would usually go sit in the car until the music ended, because it was just.too.damn.much. The people were generally nice, but vapid; that shallow “we’re the cool kids” vibe. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Denim Jumper

[SilverBeach]

2 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Ignoring the beliefs aspect, the aesthetic of these hipster churches (and mega churches in general) are less religious and more reminiscent of that other great American institution, the mall.

I know someone who goes to a church where they actually refer to the very long entry way lined with offices for various ministries as "the mall". The main sanctuary is a very large, black-curtained,  windowless room with auditorium style seating and many huge monitors. Coffee bar...check. Small groups...check. Praise and worship...check. Jeans...check. Conservative beliefs...check. There is zero religious or even spiritual aesthetic. Not even a plain wooden cross or something. I don't care for it, I felt like I was at work or a concert in that auditorium/sanctuary. 

Even old, traditional denominations like the RCA are masquerading as hipster churches now. Any reference to RCA is left out of the church name, you only find out about affiliation with the denomination in the fine print at the new members class. All hipster markings are present, and none of the traditional things like the liturgical calendar or daily bible readings are visible unless you dig for them on the denomination website. It's marketing for members, focusing on "growth" over substance. I don't think churchs should never change, and I rather enjoy the casual dress, but this pandering for popularity really waters down rich and meaningful traditions until everything looks and feels the same. I'm older though, so not the target demographic for these hipster churches. All they want from me is my money, LOL. Let the buyer beware, these churches are not nearly as liberal as they appear to be.

2 hours ago, smittykins said:

In the Episcopal Church, you have the option to not partake of the cup, which you signal by crossing your arms over your chest.

I believe this is true in the Catholic tradition also, according to my newly confirmed daughter. 

Edited January 28, 2020 by SilverBeach

[ifosterkittens]

2 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

3 hours ago, smittykins said:

In the Episcopal Church, you have the option to not partake of the cup, which you signal by crossing your arms over your chest.

I believe this is true in the Catholic tradition also, according to my newly confirmed daughter. 

In most Catholic churches I've been to the body (communion wafers, host, bread) and blood of Christ (wine) are served separately, by two different people, and plenty of people just get the  communion wafer and skip the wine line choosing to forgo the communal cup. A few churches have dipped the communion wafer in the wine. For those that aren't Catholic (or are gluten free) but wish to receive a blessing you can cross your arms. 

[hoipolloi]

That Mosaic Church has a list of by-laws and a constitution that are nothing but a giant red flag to me.

Considering the ways one can leave that "church" it sounds more like the Hotel California than anything else:

Quote

1.05 Termination of Membership
Members may be removed for the following reasons:
• Death;
• Transfer to another church;
• Personal written request of the Member;
• Should any Member not appear at any Mosaic function or not obviously participate in at least
one worship, teaching, prayer meeting, small group meeting for a period of at least six
months, the Board of Elders will consider the removal of that person as a Member, within
the process described in Article 1.06 Discipline of Members. 
• Dismissal by Mosaic is initiated through a process operated by the Elders when a Member's
life and conduct fail to meet the requirements of Membership as proscribed by these Bylaws.
This discipline process is described in Article 1.06 Discipline of Members. 

These people may be young, serve the designer coffee, have musical praise bands, and wear the flannel shirts, but they're still a bunch of controlling, fundie ass hats.

[Katzchen24]

Have you heard of the C3 Global Church? We've got these popping up all over the place in Australia and they are quite aggressively expansionist. There's one about 10 minutes drive from me. From the C3 website "With over 300 churches in 64 countries, we are rapidly moving towards the 2020 Vision of 1,000 churches with an average membership of 500 people planted by the year 2020."

They are not entirely squeaky clean (Multimillion dollar Australian megachurch now courting NYCS hipsters), with other accusations of extorting money from the congregation. According to one congregant 'giving was described as a “seed” that had to be watered continually for a “big blessing” to come' which sounds horribly prosperity gospel to me. 

[SilverBeach]

7 hours ago, ifosterkittens said:

In most Catholic churches I've been to the body (communion wafers, host, bread) and blood of Christ (wine) are served separately, by two different people, and plenty of people just get the  communion wafer and skip the wine line choosing to forgo the communal cup. A few churches have dipped the communion wafer in the wine. For those that aren't Catholic (or are gluten free) but wish to receive a blessing you can cross your arms. 

Yeah, my daughter is a eucharistic minister and told me that many people skip the wine.

[Cat Damon]

I've written about one that I know of in my city (Indianapolis) called iTown, which apparently means "Indy town" and they are just like all of these. I used to work with someone who still goes there. She and her husband used to live in California when some iTown members came and did a "mission trip" at the LA Dream Center (which also sounds similar). They literally sold all of their possessions and drove from California to Indiana with what they could fit in their car. 

She also quit where we worked so she could do their "leadership academy". To me, it sounded like she was paying hundreds, if not a couple thousand, dollars to basically be an intern at their campus and help with parking and serving coffee. 

https://itownchurch.com/ 

[clueliss]

12 hours ago, raspberrymint said:

I sampled a few hipster churches while faith shopping.  I like the emphasis on community and families, but the actual sermons were either very boring, very empty, or both.  Contrast that to the Unitarian Universalist church that also loves coffee, community, and family, but actually talks about interesting things, and they're stereotyped as being "about nothing" while these Christian groups actually are!  Nothing, fundamentalists in disguise, narcissistic self-help, or a combination of the three.

I'm in the process of backing out of a church because I realized that the sermons are nothing and not telling me a lot other than superficial babble.  Wonderful place, wonderful people.  But no depth of anything.

[Pecansforeveryone]

This is the exactly the sort of church Hillsong is. It's why I give side eye to Chris Pratt for attending it. 

[Howl]

14 hours ago, Pecansforeveryone said:

Don't forget the "Cool" churches. Literally,The Cool Church. When I lived in Tucson a decade ago, there were at least 3 campuses. 

Dear Rufus Reindeer, I'm having flashbacks to Mark Driscoll.  

For those not familiar, Mark Driscoll was one of the first celebrity hipster ministers.  His immensely successful Mars Hill franchise (Seattle area) imploded spectacularly because Mark Driscoll is an authoritarian asshole hiding behind the guise of religion and it got to a point where that could no longer be hidden. 

He then moved to Scottsdale, reinvented himself, started The Trinity Church (check out their way slick website here: thetrinitychurch.com/)  and kept on marketing the Mark Driscoll brand.  If you google "Mark Driscoll" he's all over the results with MDM (Mark Driscoll Ministries, markdriscoll.org). 

Here's a recent (critical) article from a Christian website that I'm linking just because it's relatively recent (July  2019).  You may or may not agree with the author's perspective. 

Mark Driscoll is back but he hasn’t learned his lesson

 

 

Edited January 28, 2020 by Howl

[SilverBeach]

Flip Wilson, back in my youth when dinosaurs roamed the earth, had a phrase that perfectly describes these places: " The church of what's happening now".  That's where you want to be! Especially coffee-drinking hipsters who want to be entertained and feel good, questionable theology aside. 

[Giraffe]

These churches are like the Bates children. They’re more palatable because they’re pretty, but the reality is they’re shilling the same old fundamentalism but because of the pretty packaging it takes longer to wake up to what’s really going on.

[clueliss]

One of my current peeves is churches that hand out coffee and donuts/bagels.  Why are we (as a church) providing free coffee and donuts?  Is that much offering coming in that you can do that, pay salaries etc and if so why aren't we legitimately helping people in need?  (I can bring my own coffee in a cup and buy my own breakfast)

[Hane]

We just had a conversation about this with my minister. Members of our lay pastoral care team have been reaching out to members who have been going through tough times, so I reconnected with a member I hadn’t seen in a while. She mentioned that she was going to a local evangelical church.

Rev. Tony said that these churches use things like praise bands, coffee shops, child care, and social events to attract and keep new members. He and I pointed out that few of these new members bother reading the church’s statements of faith, which often are sexist and homophobic or theologically troublesome. 
When I was taking a lay ministry course, I checked out the church websites of my fellow students. Yes, many of these churches did laudable work in areas like addiction counseling and feeding the hungry, but scratch the surface and sexism, homophobia, and ultraconservative Biblical literalism are there in full force.

[SilverBeach]

I really dislike the bait and switch aspect of many of these new churches. I know of one that calls itself nondenomentional, but the husband and wife pastoral team come from a Pentacostal background and expect folks to speak in tongues as evidence of salvation. This was not disclosed from the pulpit/stage, but was buried in the new members class. These tactics are no better than those used to sell snake oil (or MLM sessential oil for a more modern example). 

[Giraffe]

Just now, clueliss said:

One of my current peeves is churches that hand out coffee and donuts/bagels.  Why are we (as a church) providing free coffee and donuts?  Is that much offering coming in that you can do that, pay salaries etc and if so why aren't we legitimately helping people in need?  (I can bring my own coffee in a cup and buy my own breakfast)

It’s a marketing campaign. It’s manipulative, and it’s the big thing going on now. It’s very mlm-ish. The thought is: people love free things so if we give them this cheap crap they don’t want or need or have any desire to take home, they’ll be so grateful they won’t tell us no and they’ll act how we want them to act.

WillowCreek* (Started by Bill Hybels, retired from there and accused of years of sexual abuse of numerous women) was among the first “seeker sensitive” churches - it was one big manipulative marketing campaign to get people in the doors. It’s the same kind of thing

Yes, I’m exaggerating, but that’s how that kind of stuff comes across to me. It turns me off rather than causing me to want to join in. 

*Rick Warren (Saddleback) does the same kind of BS.

[clueliss]

And sometimes the language on church websites is cloaked/coded.  For instance the speaking in tongues thing is sometimes hidden in the phrase "Baptism of the Spirit"