Hipster Churches; Still Fundie

[JermajestyDuggar]

46 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Elevation Church is a big one in parts of NC. It is shady as hell. They seem to still to have the typical Baptist beliefs but present themselves as being "cooler". They claimed to have spontaneous baptisms that were miracles, but they ended up being not so spontaneous. The pastor, Steven Furtick, created the most over the top video in response to legitimate concerns about the church.  

 

Hahahaha! What a douche! I’m cracking up over here. How can anyone take that guy seriously? 

[quiversR4hunting]

55 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

Elevation Church is a big one in parts of NC. It is shady as hell. They seem to still to have the typical Baptist beliefs but present themselves as being "cooler". They claimed to have spontaneous baptisms that were miracles, but they ended up being not so spontaneous. The pastor, Steven Furtick, created the most over the top video in response to legitimate concerns about the church.  

from the article

Quote

Chunks Corbett, CFO of the 10-campus North Carolina megachurch 

a CFO?! the minute it said CFO I got very annoyed. When churches have CFOs instead of a financial council* or such is when it is a business and not a church. 

*Financial council/advisory board (pick a similar group title) makes the financial decisions and recommendations. There is still a person doing payroll and expenses but they aren't the CFO, there isn't one person in charge of the church money. 

[Howl]

1 hour ago, formergothardite said:

The pastor, Steven Furtick, created the most over the top video in response to legitimate concerns about the church.  

That reminded me to check on a link between Furtick and Mark Driscoll (couldn't find one), but my google search led me to this entry on this facebook page: Stuff Christian Culture Likes -- This forum is for people who have been harmed by Christian culture

"Steven Furtick and Mark Driscoll have a new rival for the biggest douchebag pastor ever."

And yes, this guy is apparently in high demand as a youth speaker. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Howl

[clueliss]

@Howl

Wait - I know of one.  10+ years ago I listened to Driscoll's sermons on podcast.  And he did one with 3 other pastors, one of them being - Furtick.  

[formergothardite]

55 minutes ago, Howl said:

That reminded me to check on a link between Furtick and Mark Driscoll (couldn't find one), but my google search led me to this entry on this facebook page: Stuff Christian Culture Likes -- This forum is for people who have been harmed by Christian culture

"Steven Furtick and Mark Driscoll have a new rival for the biggest douchebag pastor ever."

And yes, this guy is apparently in high demand as a youth speaker. 

I have never heard of this guy but he is awful. I don't understand what is attractive about these guys. They are pretty open assholes. 

 

[clueliss]

FYI - I believe Furtick is on TV these days.  

[Giraffe]

Hillsong, C3, & Bethel have strong ties to each other. They all try to be hipster churches.

https://churchwatchcentral.com/

https://c3churchwatch.com/church-leaders-speak-out/

https://hillsongchurchwatch.com/
 

 

Edited January 29, 2020 by Giraffe
Adding words

[Cleopatra7]

What gets me about hipster churches isn’t so much the aesthetics or the music, but the fact that they lie about their beliefs and/or their affiliations with larger evangelical or Pentecostal denominations. If I go to Charles Stanley’s church, I won’t like his theology or social beliefs, but I know where he stands and who he’s affiliated with. Some of these hipster churches are affiliated with the SBC or various legacy reformed denominations, but hide that fact, because they know these denominations aren’t “cool.” However, knowing that kind of information is very helpfully in deciding whether a certain church is right for you. I get that most people aren’t theology nerds like me, but I think hiding or being vague about denominational affiliation is incredibly dishonest. The membership contracts are also dishonest, and I wonder when such documents started becoming an acceptable practice.

Edited January 29, 2020 by Cleopatra7

[Marmion]

5 hours ago, Howl said:

That reminded me to check on a link between Furtick and Mark Driscoll (couldn't find one), but my google search led me to this entry on this facebook page: Stuff Christian Culture Likes -- This forum is for people who have been harmed by Christian culture

"Steven Furtick and Mark Driscoll have a new rival for the biggest douchebag pastor ever."

And yes, this guy is apparently in high demand as a youth speaker. 

I just found this article , upon looking him up online .  https://www.huffpost.com/entry/matt-pitt-pastor-basement-jumps-off-cliff_n_3822712  He, and those like him , sort of remind me of this satirical character .   

 

[SilverBeach]

2 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

What gets me about hipster churches isn’t so much the aesthetics or the music, but the fact that they lie about their beliefs and/or their affiliations with larger evangelical or Pentecostal denominations

Yes, it's false advertising, bait and switch.  My last church did this, as it was in good standing as an RCA church but rarely identified with it at all, including not addressing the orange menace being a member of the denomination. I want to know what I am supporting, financially and otherwise, right up front. Reprehensible.

The aesthestics, or lack there of, do bother me though.  But I'm environment sensitive. 

Edited January 29, 2020 by SilverBeach

[Hane]

Slightly OT: There used to be a Frontline Church around here. I would giggle at it, because that was the name of my dog’s flea and tick medicine.

[Howl]

5 hours ago, Marmion said:

I just found this article , upon looking him up online .  https://www.huffpost.com/entry/matt-pitt-pastor-basement-jumps-off-cliff_n_3822712 

OMG, he actually jumped off an actual cliff fleeing from police!  He must have bounced, since he was subsequently arrested.  

[CTRLZero]

7 hours ago, Marmion said:

He, and those like him , sort of remind me of this satirical character .   

I really enjoyed the video you posted.  I kept thinking of all the fundies we discuss here, and some of them seem to be represented in one scene or another in the video.  Thank you!

[FloraDoraDolly]

On 1/28/2020 at 11:46 AM, clueliss said:

One of my current peeves is churches that hand out coffee and donuts/bagels.  Why are we (as a church) providing free coffee and donuts?  Is that much offering coming in that you can do that, pay salaries etc and if so why aren't we legitimately helping people in need?  (I can bring my own coffee in a cup and buy my own breakfast)

My Episcopal church has free coffee and treats every Sunday. Sometimes a member or two will get together and serve up a big lunch, especially if it's on or near a holiday. But we're small. We aren't feeding hundreds of people every week, maybe 50. The church itself doesn't pay for the food or coffee; the members bring it. Since I don't like coffee, I usually make sure there's some kind of fruit juice in the refrigerator (for the kids as well as for myself).

Coffee hour is actually an important part of the service. This is where people (including visitors and new members) get to know each other. One of my friends, who lost her husband four years ago after he fought a lengthy battle with brain cancer, said that coffee hour was what got her through that first year or so of Sundays. It helped her to have friends to talk to and eat with instead of spending that time alone in an empty house. Since my church is LGBT affirming, this also gives the straight church members a chance to get to know people who are not straight. It can get a little clique-y at times, not unlike a high school cafeteria. But some people (myself included) make an effort not to sit at the same table every week.

[Marmion]

47 minutes ago, CTRLZero said:

I really enjoyed the video you posted.  I kept thinking of all the fundies we discuss here, and some of them seem to be represented in one scene or another in the video.  Thank you!

Even I hadn't quite realized just how correct I was about him .  For example , just take a look at this interview he gave .  

Yes , this is the guy who has been in a position of influence over the youth .  

[danvillebelle]

Coffee Hour is almost universally a thing at Orthodox churches...because the people have been fasting since midnight the night before and are HUNGRY by then.  But at the parishes where I've been, all the food (usually a whole meal, actually) is brought by parishoners on a rotating basis, it doesn't come out of the church budget.

[formergothardite]

Sign you might be guilty: You jump off a damn cliff trying to escape the police. 

 

 

[Ali]

On 1/29/2020 at 6:20 AM, Katzchen24 said:

Yes, they were once called that. The  Wiki page for Phil Pringle says "He is the senior pastor of C3 Church Sydney (formerly known as Christian City Church)"

I don't know what makes a Pentecostal, but article 7 of what they believe is:

"In the baptism of the Holy Spirit as a gift available to believers subsequent to the new birth, with normal evidence of speaking in other tongues"

Isn't speaking in tongues a Pentacostal thing?

Yes, it is a Pentecostal thing. Churches who believe in speaking in tongues may also call themselves charismatic. Any denomination might call itself charismatic if they believe in speaking in tongues. Baptism of the Holy Spirit is a common description for the initial experience of speaking in tongues in some churches.

[FundMe]

Here we have THRIVE, SUMMIT & ELEVATION. I visited one of these a few weeks ago. The emotional blackmail began as a group of us were walking in. No less than twelve people approached me saying "Can I give you a hug?" Now I am a really nice person and I avoid conflict, so for the first few I responded no thank you with a smile. The next few  a no thank you with a grimace. then NO THANK YOU. Then ,and I'm not particularly proud of this but it is what it is, I kinda lost it. With a . smile (because I'm a nice person)  I said NO THANK YOU, DON'T TOUCH ME. I'M SERIOUS! The others approaching me parted like the Red Sea.

[formergothardite]

14 minutes ago, SawScar2017 said:

Here we have THRIVE, SUMMIT & ELEVATION. I visited one of these a few weeks ago. The emotional blackmail began as a group of us were walking in. No less than twelve people approached me saying "Can I give you a hug?" Now I am a really nice person and I avoid conflict, so for the first few I responded no thank you with a smile. The next few  a no thank you with a grimace. then NO THANK YOU. Then ,and I'm not particularly proud of this but it is what it is, I kinda lost it. With a . smile (because I'm a nice person)  I said NO THANK YOU, DON'T TOUCH ME. I'M SERIOUS! The others approaching me parted like the Red Sea.

One of my sisters visited Elevation once and she said it was insane. She said she and her boyfriend were immediately bombarded with overly friendly people. People followed them to their car after the service trying to hug them and get their phone numbers. 

These hipster fundie churches take love bombing seriously. 

[FundMe]

15 minutes ago, formergothardite said:

One of my sisters visited Elevation once and she said it was insane. She said she and her boyfriend were immediately bombarded with overly friendly people. People followed them to their car after the service trying to hug them and get their phone numbers. 

These hipster fundie churches take love bombing seriously. 

yep, it was ELEVATION 

[clueliss]

Elevation = Furtick.

[Giraffe]

On 1/28/2020 at 8:46 AM, clueliss said:

One of my current peeves is churches that hand out coffee and donuts/bagels.  Why are we (as a church) providing free coffee and donuts?

 

On 1/28/2020 at 8:54 AM, Giraffe said:

It’s a marketing campaign. It’s manipulative, and it’s the big thing going on now. It’s very mlm-ish. The thought is: people love free things so if we give them this cheap crap they don’t want or need or have any desire to take home, they’ll be so grateful they won’t tell us no and they’ll act how we want them to act.

I was rereading this comment and I want to back-step.  I don’t believe that any church that serves coffee & donuts is manipulative, etc, but that’s exactly what I wrote.

Plenty of good churches offer what they may or may not call “fellowship time,” and often they provide food. 

I was thinking more along the lines of other free stuff - gift bags with pens and mugs and whatever else they shove in there. It’s when their freebies start feeing like I’ve come from a convention that I have a problem with. 
 

 

[treehugger]

@Giraffe, I understood what you meant.  Every Anglican Church I know has at least toast after the service, and people stay and chat for hours. It gives off massively different vibes than the coffee shops at the mega churches I've been to, where overly pushy volunteers ply everyone with coffee to drink during the service (wtaf?) and maybe another quick cup for the road, and no one actually gives a flying fuck about you as a person.  

[Cleopatra7]

1 hour ago, Giraffe said:

 

I was rereading this comment and I want to back-step.  I don’t believe that any church that serves coffee & donuts is manipulative, etc, but that’s exactly what I wrote.

Plenty of good churches offer what they may or may not call “fellowship time,” and often they provide food. 

I was thinking more along the lines of other free stuff - gift bags with pens and mugs and whatever else they shove in there. It’s when their freebies start feeing like I’ve come from a convention that I have a problem with. 
 

 

The coffee hours I’ve attended consist of snacks congregants have donated or made, or alternately, baked goods (usually  day old) that have been donated by a business that someone has a pre-existing connection to. Similarly, the coffee is just what you’d find in supermarkets, maybe fair trade in more progressive congregations. These hipster churches seem to be trying to recreate what you’d find at a Starbucks or even better, an indie cafe. The goodie bags filled with branded stuff seem to be a hipster church innovation, since I have not heard of even the older mega churches doing this. It could be a sign of the generational divide, since I feel like the “traditional” mega churches see TV and televangelism as their main platform, whereas the hipster churches rely more on social media and “lifestyle branding,” hence the freebies with the church’s name on them.