Hipster Churches; Still Fundie

[Petronella]

1 minute ago, feministxtian said:

@Petronella Its more of there's no dress code. Our congregation is more like the "island of misfit toys". We lean more towards people who wouldn't "fit" in a different church. We're not a "megachurch", we're actually quite small. That makes it much easier to get to know people and the pastoral staff. There are plenty of churches here for the "churchy" people, there are 3 fairly large churches that have all the hippy-dippy programming and are still quite fundy in view. Us? Nope. We take mission trips to places like India to build homes for women and children who have gotten caught up into sex slavery, build houses in Mexico, work with kids in what is considered the worst neighborhood in Vegas. 

See, just the way you say "churchy" people is judgmental.

Being negative about people for holding cruel views? Good.

Being negative towards people who (for example) wear cardigans and don't have tattoos? Unnecessary and unkind.

You're putting "people who happen to dress conservatively by personal preference" into the same bucket with "people who hold hateful views". One has nothing to do with the other.

Also, you're saying that your church is good, and all the other churches are for "churchy" people (churchy clearly meaning something negative to you). Doesn't that send off a warning bell: "only our church is the one true path"?

Do you really think no other church does good stuff too? Your church is not the only good one in the world.

[feministxtian]

17 minutes ago, Petronella said:

Also, you're saying that your church is good, and all the other churches are for "churchy" people (churchy clearly meaning something negative to you). Doesn't that send off a warning bell: "only our church is the one true path"?

Do you really think no other church does good stuff too? Your church is not the only good one in the world.

I'm saying that for those of us who don't like the churchy churches or the rabid nut-job types (the megachurches are quite fundy in outlook), it's a good place. As far as my church being "the one true path", that's bullshit. Its a safe place for those of us who have been burned by other places, for those of us who wouldn't really fit elsewhere, for those of us who want a small community where it's easier to get to know people and grow in life. 

[Petronella]

10 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I'm saying that for those of us who don't like the churchy churches or the rabid nut-job types (the megachurches are quite fundy in outlook), it's a good place. As far as my church being "the one true path", that's bullshit. Its a safe place for those of us who have been burned by other places, for those of us who wouldn't really fit elsewhere, for those of us who want a small community where it's easier to get to know people and grow in life. 

That's good. I'm glad you have a church you like; it does sound like a nice place.

Why are you putting down my nice place, just because we meet in a traditional church building and use hymnals and have an organ?

Not liking fundie churches with their cruel worldviews makes sense. Not liking megachurches because of how their social structure becomes crowd-pleasing instead of genuinely thoughtful makes sense. Not liking "churchy people" because maybe they're slightly different from you in how they dress or in the music they like is very strict and judgmental.

If that's not what you mean by "churchy" then maybe you could recognise that it's not a useful word to express what it is you're trying to say.

[feministxtian]

2 minutes ago, Petronella said:

That's good. I'm glad you have a church you like; it does sound like a nice place.

Why are you putting down my nice place, just because we meet in a traditional church building and use hymnals and have an organ?

Not liking fundie churches with their cruel worldviews makes sense. Not liking megachurches because of how their social structure becomes crowd-pleasing instead of genuinely thoughtful makes sense. Not liking "churchy people" because maybe they're slightly different from you in how they dress or in the music they like is very strict and judgmental.

If that's not what you mean by "churchy" then maybe you could recognise that it's not a useful word to express what it is you're trying to say.

I grew up Roman Catholic...hell, I vaguely remember Mass in Latin. I grew up in the buckle of the bible belt. The "smells and bells" and organ music always made me itchy. The fake-ass people made me angry...the priest at my mom's parish refused to hold her funeral mass because she hadn't been to Mass in years...after I went off on his ass he conceded. 

I'm a member of the island of misfit toys...you know me enough from just here that I'm a little out there...

[Petronella]

7 minutes ago, feministxtian said:

I grew up Roman Catholic...hell, I vaguely remember Mass in Latin. I grew up in the buckle of the bible belt. The "smells and bells" and organ music always made me itchy. The fake-ass people made me angry...the priest at my mom's parish refused to hold her funeral mass because she hadn't been to Mass in years...after I went off on his ass he conceded. 

I'm a member of the island of misfit toys...you know me enough from just here that I'm a little out there...

That's really sad that that church treated you like that. It's also sad that it had fake people in it. I'm sorry you had to experience that.

There are also lots of churches that don't have "fake", unkind people in them. Sounds like your current church is one, and mine too. You'd know them by their kindness and lovingness, not by what kind of building they meet in, or whether or not they use incense, or how tattooed, or not, their pastor is.

It makes a lot of sense to dislike churches where people are unkind. It's unfair to claim to identify which churches those are by superficial details.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Petronella

[feministxtian]

19 minutes ago, Petronella said:

It makes a lot of sense to dislike churches where people are unkind. It's unfair to claim to identify which churches those are by superficial details.

People who feel the need to talk about their faith all the time make me itchy too. Don't tell me, show me. I have no time for words. I usually don't say jack shit about what I believe...that's between me and the sovereign of the universe. I prefer to do things and have opinions that are in line with my beliefs. 

[MamaJunebug]

On 1/28/2020 at 12:16 PM, quiversR4hunting said:

 

On 1/28/2020 at 10:46 AM, clueliss said:

One of my current peeves is churches that hand out coffee and donuts/bagels.  Why are we (as a church) providing free coffee and donuts?  Is that much offering coming in that you can do that, pay salaries etc and if so why aren't we legitimately helping people in need?  (I can bring my own coffee in a cup and buy my own breakfast)

Read more  

My church has coffee and donuts afterwards for a donation but it is meant to have the congregation to hang out and converse with each other. It is also completely optional and only at the morning masses. 

 

Glad for this discussion. It’s fend red my resolve:  Now that the church I attend sporadically is rid of a pastor who really held it back, I’m going to contribute enough for after-service coffee klatsches with good cookies with the proviso that other people take care of the set-up and tear-down and I’m not identified as the benefactor.  Previous-Pastor frowned on coffee hours because “they keep people from my Bible study.”  No, bucko, your insipid teaching kept people from “your” Bible study. 

[Giraffe]

21 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

 Previous-Pastor frowned on coffee hours because “they keep people from my Bible study.”  No, bucko, your insipid teaching kept people from “your” Bible study. 

Previous-pastor, I assure you coffee & donuts are not what kept people away from your Bible study. ? 

[smittykins]

I was on my former church’s website, and I’m beginning to wonder if it’s heading in this direction(it’s nondenominational, and identifies as “conservative evangelical, not ecumenical or charismatic”).  They have a worship team and a “Welcome Center,” calls its Sunday school KidZone, and the youth group is affiliated with Axis Student Ministries .  The pastor who was there when I was in high school refused to marry my mom and then-stepfather because each had been divorced.

[clueliss]

I followed that link to axis and noticed a Colorado Springs address.  That’s Focus in the Family territory 

[Giraffe]

10 minutes ago, clueliss said:

I followed that link to axis and noticed a Colorado Springs address.  That’s Focus in the Family territory 

Colorado Springs is the Bible belt of the west. There are so many sketchy “ministries” there!

[Pecansforeveryone]

It's also Joe Kenda of Homicide Hunter territory.  Sadly last Wednesday was the final episode of Homicide Hunter but James Dobson is still farting around with Focus on the Family. Rufus, have mercy. 

[Marmion]

21 hours ago, smittykins said:

I was on my former church’s website, and I’m beginning to wonder if it’s heading in this direction(it’s nondenominational, and identifies as “conservative evangelical, not ecumenical or charismatic”).  They have a worship team and a “Welcome Center,” calls its Sunday school KidZone, and the youth group is affiliated with Axis Student Ministries .  The pastor who was there when I was in high school refused to marry my mom and then-stepfather because each had been divorced.

For what it's worth , and to whoever it may concern , I looked at the bio for Axis Student Ministries founder , https://axis.org/team/david-eaton/ , and noticed some associations which rang some bells . As someone else already mentioned , Focus On The Family is headquartered in Colorado Springs , and Axis is associated with them . However they also are associated with Ravi Zacharias Ministries http://www.raviwatch.com , and MOPS , both of which I remember from my Christian & Missionary Alliance churchgoing days { https://www.xfamily.org/index.php/Christian_Missionary_Alliance , https://www.cleveland.com/pdextra/2010/04/mission_children_abused.html } , the latter of which I just discovered is not connected to any particular denomination though .  But I did discover that Axis Student Ministries has made its way into the Church of the Nazarene , FWIW  https://www.camasnazarene.org/360youth.html .  And another group Axis has ties to is Youth Life. { https://www.patheos.com/blogs/tonyjones/2008/01/08/something-is-wrong-at-young-life/  , https://forum.culteducation.com/read.php?14,15330  }  So make of that what you will .  And that's all the information I could find on them . 

[Smee]

The church I went to when I lived in Sydney had an 8:45am service with hymns and an organ where people dressed up and men wore ties, and then a 10:15am service with guitars and lyrics projected onto a screen and people wearing shorts and thongs (flip flops, not the underwear variety! Although maybe those too, who knows?). The same pastor preached the same sermon at both, because all that other stuff is about helping the congregation to feel at home and shouldn’t change your theology. Generally speaking, the early morning service was an older crowd, while the 10:15 was when the kids program ran, but there was a lovely time between the two services where everyone drank tea and chatted.

I do miss that church. I hear it’s not the same since the senior pastor left to become a chaplain in the navy.

[MamaJunebug]

Lutheran hymnody - as sung in “traditional”  services in the more conservative of the synods -  suits me. I love it. 

If I can just train my brain to turn off during the parts of the sermons that go beyond Law & Gospel and into lifestyle [sic] choices [also sic] ... and of course, into lauding anti-choice...

Maybe I can schedule a coughing fit when teh gheyz and reproductive rights come up. Excuse me, so sorry, must get to narthex ‘til this spell is over..... 

[Marmion]

I just happened to have this pop up in my recommended videos on YouTube , and thought I'd share it here .  

Here is more information about their leader .  {  https://churchwatchcentral.com/2019/06/10/jentezen-franklin-creating-his-own-false-narrative/ , https://brucegerencser.net/tag/jentezen-franklin/  , }