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closetcagebaby

It really bothers me to see people being so critical about Olivia. She was raised in the cult of fundiedom and has done a pretty damn good job recognizing the damage it has done to her and the potential damage it might cause to other children - that’s pretty great.

 

If I was her, I would be aggressively “against” the Plaths, too, since she knows so specifically how horrible these teachings are. Fuck Kim and her husband - they deserved to have their children tell them exactly how they’ve failed. 

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Heck. My kids don’t know who the president is and that’s fine by me.  

Hell, I wish I didn't know who the president is!

How fucking sad is it that we live in a world where we have to shield children from the president. I completely understand why people do it; I'm not insulting the fact that you have to, just that damn

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JermajestyDuggar

I think a lot of people who are not informed on the fundie culture and how destructive it is can make assumptions about Olivia. 

If Olivia was dealing with Scientologist ILs and grew up Scientologist, people wouldn’t be so against her. But because no one knows the Plath’s are Pearl followers and have some really fucked up beliefs, people see Olivia as overstepping. But she really is trying to help Ethan’s younger siblings. 

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waltraute

Even if this was not about the kids left at home and only a giant FU to the Plath parents, what exactly do we expect here?  Olivia has broken free and has brought Ethan along with her.  We keep saying we want our pet fundies to get out, but what do we think that will look like; the escapees behaving admirably and always taking the high road? 

I would imagine these kids are filled with bitterness and possible rage for how they were raised. They have been manipulated in the highest order throughout their lives.  It would only be natural for them to turn those manipulation techniques back on to their parents, as that is the only  behavior that has been modeled for them.

The breaking free momentum might carry them on a trajectory for awhile that seems less than flattering to us. They have a lot to work through.  I'd give them some time before judging. 

Also, we have no real way to know what is going on with these families. Reality TV is anything but. 

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HeartsAFundie

Did anyone catch the part about Ethan finding an old 1980s radio Barry threw out, figuring out the channels could be changed and discovering classic country music? How sad that he felt "naughty" listening to country greats such as Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson (or Garth Brooks, George Strait and Clint Black if 90s country was thrown in).  

And I don't believe for one second that Barry's not listening to secular music during his work commute to Tallahassee.  He mentioned being a partier in high school.  He definitely looks like a classic rock guy.  You can't just turn that stuff off (pun intended); it may lie dormant for awhile, but it never completely goes away.   Mark my words, that dude is headbanging to KISS, Aerosmith and Led Zeppelin all the way down the highway en route to work, then switches the radio to something more acceptable or turns it off completely the minute he pulls in his driveway.        

 

Edited by HeartsAFundie
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JermajestyDuggar
1 hour ago, waltraute said:

Even if this was not about the kids left at home and only a giant FU to the Plath parents, what exactly do we expect here?  Olivia has broken free and has brought Ethan along with her.  We keep saying we want our pet fundies to get out, but what do we think that will look like; the escapees behaving admirably and always taking the high road? 

I would imagine these kids are filled with bitterness and possible rage for how they were raised. They have been manipulated in the highest order throughout their lives.  It would only be natural for them to turn those manipulation techniques back on to their parents, as that is the only  behavior that has been modeled for them.

The breaking free momentum might carry them on a trajectory for awhile that seems less than flattering to us. They have a lot to work through.  I'd give them some time before judging. 

Also, we have no real way to know what is going on with these families. Reality TV is anything but. 

I’ve always expected breaking away from fundieland to be pretty messy. Cynthia Jeub described her leaving that way. It wasn’t just some clean break where everyone was respectful and pleasant. I imagine the Andersons and the Nogs as being the most volatile when the first child breaks free. The Andersons haven’t experienced it yet, but I imagine it will be nasty. I think Jill Rod will be hysterical when a child breaks free. She will basically act like Mrs Bennet in Pride and Prejudice. And everyone will have to cater to mama’s hysterics for weeks. 

Edited by JermajestyDuggar
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Marmion
2 hours ago, waltraute said:

The breaking free momentum might carry them on a trajectory for awhile that seems less than flattering to us. They have a lot to work through.  I'd give them some time before judging

Without going into too much personal detail , I can say anecdotally that I have noticed this with regard to the group my folks are involved with .  This one 17 yr. old adolescent went so far as to dye his / or her hair a teal green , and have an expressed interest in Laveyan Satanism , and black metal .  And while I do not entirely approve of this person's approach in apostating from the Conservative Holiness movement , it shouldn't surprise me , and I don't exactly blame him / or her for rebelling in such a drastic fashion .  I just don't feel that it reflects very well upon the credibility of other walk aways , such as myself , if this were to be the impression that casual outside observers have of what ex-Holiness / Christian fundamentalists are like .  I might even serve to reinforce the narrative that there is never a valid reason that someone might have for leaving .  

Quote

 d. Never a legitimate reason to leave; those who leave are weak, undisciplined, unspiritual, worldly, brainwashed by family or counselor, or seduced by money, sex, or rock and roll

http://old.freedomofmind.com/Info/BITE/bitemodel.php#emotional   

 

29 minutes ago, HeartsAFundie said:

Did anyone catch the part about Ethan finding an old 1980s radio Barry threw out, figuring out the channels could be changed and discovering classic country music? How sad that he felt "naughty" listening to Merle Haggard, Johnny Cash and Willie Nelson (or Garth Brooks, George Strait and Clint Black if 90s country was thrown in).  

And I don't believe for one second that Barry's not listening to secular music during his work commute to Tallahassee.  He mentioned being a partier in high school.  He's definitely a classic rock guy.   Mark my words, that dude is headbanging to KISS, Aerosmith and Led Zeppelin all the way down the highway en route to work, then switches the radio to something more acceptable or turns it off completely the minute he pulls in his driveway.        

 

This brings to mind an amusing anecdote , related to me by my sister , of her experience staying with a friend she had met at a Church of the Nazarene , before the other girl's parents had withdrawn , and ended up joining the before mentioned Conservative Holiness movement .  She and my sister were driving to the mall , for a girls night out .  My sister's friend asked if she might put on a contemporary Christian radio station , https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/WFHM-FM , without my sister mentioning it to the friend's parents , as she wasn't allowed to listen to it , given the rock beat I suppose .  To which my sister agreed .  It's just that she informed the rest of our family , including myself about it , plus other aspects of this religious sect that caused her culture shock , such as the expectation that all women , and girls of a certain age keep their uncut hair rolled up in a bun , lest old fuddy duddies give them the stink eye , in her words .   So yeah , I can attest that this is how teenagers from strict fundamentalist / legalist sects might sow wild oats , so to speak .  Not by going too wild , per se , but just by bending the rules somewhat .  

Edited by Marmion
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DarkAnts

Olivia is human and makes mistakes. She is learning from her mistakes. Kim and Berry refuse to do it. They blame others, and dig further into isolation. I don't expect Olivia and Ethan to do everything perfect. They have a lot to learn and seem willing to try.

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quiversR4hunting
14 hours ago, DarkAnts said:

Olivia is human and makes mistakes. She is learning from her mistakes. Kim and Berry refuse to do it. They blame others, and dig further into isolation. I don't expect Olivia and Ethan to do everything perfect. They have a lot to learn and seem willing to try.

and we have to remember Olivia and Ethan are still young. Brains are still developing in the 20s and Olivia & Ethan were suppressed in so many ways that they have years to grow and unravel all sorts of damage done to them as kids. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-24173194 

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jillsdopplerofdoom

I'm only on episode 4.

I feel for poor Ethan. For years he has been blocked from simple life experiences that many other children outside of Fundamentalism would've experienced. He hadn't even done simple things such as tasting a coke until a few months ago and I find that quite ridiculous. He must be having a sensory overload at the moment.

Olivia is such a lovely, kind, beautiful young woman who if only trying to help her siblings in law. She only met these people a couple of years ago but obviously cares for them so deeply. I think Kim wants her children to have the 'perfect' childhood because her own parents didn't give her one.

I found Lydia praying to God and crying so moving. She is clearly a confused young woman who is torn over whether to follow the lead of her sister Moriah or stay at home with her siblings. I just wonder if she feels the need to be the 'perfect daughter' Hosanna was when she was at home. 

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TeaELSee

I was reading a few threads on Reddit and saw Ethan described (in an endearing way) as Kenneth from 30 Rock and Kimmy Schmidt. 
 

Both are spot on.

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NonSOTDRT Teacher

Micah just announced on his Instagram story that he has a girlfriend. They’re standing in front of a Christmas tree. Wonder how Kim feels about all of this? 

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CarrotCake
4 hours ago, NonSOTDRT Teacher said:

Micah just announced on his Instagram story that he has a girlfriend. They’re standing in front of a Christmas tree. Wonder how Kim feels about all of this? 

She looks mainstream Christian if you check her instagram: some God-related messages but also graduation, (ex)boyfriends and not-so-modest bikini's and marjorette outfits.

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JermajestyDuggar

I’ll bet she thinks this girl is also influenced by satan just like Olivia. At least the girl knowswhat kind of family he has thanks to the show. 

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Micah and Moriah have both moved out.  I DM’d Olivia and asked her - apparently, Ethans family bought yet another home (making this their 5 home, 4th mortgage) and GET THIS it’s only 3 minutes from Ethan and Olivia.  And they thought the farm was too close at 15 minutes! Anyways, when the family moved they kicked Micah and Moriah out.  Moriah is living with Ethan and Olivia, and Micah moved in with some of their friends from church.  
 

I don’t know, I but could swear you get in trouble for kicking a 17 year old minor out? 

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JermajestyDuggar

It is probably best for Moriah to be with Ethan and Olivia. She’s accepted for who she is in their home. Kim and Barry just want to make their own lives easier. And that means kicking out the kids who don’t fall in line. They have Lydia and Isaac to do the work around the house. 

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52 minutes ago, KateS said:

Micah and Moriah have both moved out.  I DM’d Olivia and asked her - apparently, Ethans family bought yet another home (making this their 5 home, 4th mortgage) and GET THIS it’s only 3 minutes from Ethan and Olivia.  And they thought the farm was too close at 15 minutes! Anyways, when the family moved they kicked Micah and Moriah out.  Moriah is living with Ethan and Olivia, and Micah moved in with some of their friends from church.  
 

I don’t know, I but could swear you get in trouble for kicking a 17 year old minor out? 

Wow. They are such crappy parents. Did they move off the farm? I thought they would never leave that place since it’s how they isolate their kids for the “perfect childhood”. 

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JermajestyDuggar
3 hours ago, mstee said:

Wow. They are such crappy parents. Did they move off the farm? I thought they would never leave that place since it’s how they isolate their kids for the “perfect childhood”. 

Kim and Barry just seem like they aren’t great planners when it comes to parenting their kids. I could see them thinking a move without  Moriah or Micah coming would fix all their family problems. Of course it won’t. Their problems will follow them wherever they go. 

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NonSOTDRT Teacher
10 hours ago, KateS said:

Micah and Moriah have both moved out.  I DM’d Olivia and asked her - apparently, Ethans family bought yet another home (making this their 5 home, 4th mortgage) and GET THIS it’s only 3 minutes from Ethan and Olivia.  And they thought the farm was too close at 15 minutes! Anyways, when the family moved they kicked Micah and Moriah out.  Moriah is living with Ethan and Olivia, and Micah moved in with some of their friends from church.  
 

I don’t know, I but could swear you get in trouble for kicking a 17 year old minor out? 

That’s some piss poor conditional love 

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Marmion
11 hours ago, KateS said:

I don’t know, I but could swear you get in trouble for kicking a 17 year old minor out?

Here is what I found on the question .  https://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2013/05/can-parents-kick-teens-out-of-their-home.html  Still , it is not unheard of for some strict sects , which some people might deem to be cults , such as namely the Jehovah's Witnesses to do this .  

 

 

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nelliebelle1197

Just a reminder that the poster who shared this information is unverified and we have no idea if it is true.

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BernRul
On 12/14/2019 at 7:19 PM, closetcagebaby said:

It really bothers me to see people being so critical about Olivia. She was raised in the cult of fundiedom and has done a pretty damn good job recognizing the damage it has done to her and the potential damage it might cause to other children - that’s pretty great.

 

If I was her, I would be aggressively “against” the Plaths, too, since she knows so specifically how horrible these teachings are. Fuck Kim and her husband - they deserved to have their children tell them exactly how they’ve failed. 

I'm shocked to see a couple of posts in this thread saying Olivia is overstepping and criticizing Moriah for how she acts. Kim and Barry are fundie cultist. They shelter their kids to the point of being abusive. How the fuck is Olivia in the wrong? Being "aggressive" against someone with toxic beliefs is a good thing, people. I swear people value being polite over doing the right thing.

Especially because this is FJ. We know that the Plaths are raising their daughters to be submissive housewives. Olivia is trying to give Moriah--and the other children--options. Bless her for helping those kids.

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jillsdopplerofdoom

Well I'm pleased for Moriah that she has moved in with Ethan and Olivia. They seemed to get on really well and accept Moriah for who she is. Hopefully Barry and Kim will accept her too one day. 

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AmazonGrace
On 12/15/2019 at 11:43 PM, Marmion said:

Without going into too much personal detail , I can say anecdotally that I have noticed this with regard to the group my folks are involved with .  This one 17 yr. old adolescent went so far as to dye his / or her hair a teal green , and have an expressed interest in Laveyan Satanism , and black metal .  And while I do not entirely approve of this person's approach in apostating from the Conservative Holiness movement , it shouldn't surprise me , and I don't exactly blame him / or her for rebelling in such a drastic fashion .  I just don't feel that it reflects very well upon the credibility of other walk aways , such as myself , if this were to be the impression that casual outside observers have of what ex-Holiness / Christian fundamentalists are like .  I might even serve to reinforce the narrative that there is never a valid reason that someone might have for leaving .  

 

So what is an acceptable way of leaving church then?  what should he or she have done in order not to get judged by other walkaways? 

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Marmion
9 hours ago, AmazonGrace said:

So what is an acceptable way of leaving church then?  what should he or she have done in order not to get judged by other walkaways? 

From the standpoint of what is a prudent course of action , I would say that it's not a good idea to disclose that you're not only an atheist , but also that you agree with the 9 Satanic Statements to your fundie family , with whom you still reside . That's bound to cause contention , and raise suspicion .  And on top of that , it's especially not advisable to openly show a taste in black metal bands that have been associated with church burnings , and what not . https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/holden-matthews-varg-wikernes-norwegian-black-metal-lords-of-chaos-820995/  ,  https://carwreckdebangs.wordpress.com/2015/11/14/norwegian-black-metal-satanism-church-burnings-and-murder-what-hath-venom-wrought/  ,  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Norwegian_black_metal_scene#Church_arsons_and_attempts  All of this will tend to get you judged adversely by the surrounding evangelical community .  As for the apostate community , I would imagine that while we won't be as inclined to jump to hasty conclusions , we won't want to be lumped in with you by association .  Those such as say Matthew J. Murray have created a fearful backlash against ex-members and critics of fundamentalism , and especially Pentecostalism , in the wake of his actions .  https://www.thenation.com/article/nightmare-christianity/   So while I do not automatically think I'll of such people , I do feel that understandably they cause unnecessary concern to those of the evangelical Christian faith community .  

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AmazonGrace

To me, if your data consists of these nuggets "has green hair", and "listens to music that I don't like", and you jump from that to the conclusions, "will blacken the name of other people whose concerns are valid" and "likes arson" you've been pretty hasty to judge. But if you've been told that certain kinds of music are inherently evil maybe it's a hard notion to  get rid of.

Most people who  listen to black metal never burn any churches. (I know this for a fact because  so few churches are burning.)

Some musicians in other genres were criminals too. We don't assume that everyone who listens to Christian music condones sexual abuse because I can produce a link to what Toby Willis is in prison for. Not everyone who listens to drug addicted musicians (that's most of us who listen to various artists I'd wager)  is a drug addict. Just because some musicians were involved in violence or drunk driving doesn't mean the fans of their whole genre are automatically suspect.

In my opinion, we should not generally condemn a person for  disclosing their atheism or musical tastes or whatnot because that comes dangerously close to telling them that they should continue living a lie. Which  could have been what they were trying to avoid when walking away.

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