Josiah and Lauren 14: Another Grand-Duggar on the Way (Miscarriage Content Warning)

[LacyMay]

Lauren has annoyed me since day one, something about her voice which always comes across to me as a bit condescending and her manner, almost like she appears as if she thinks she's above whatever is going on around her or bored to tears with it. She just strikes me as a bit pretentious and fake. 

That said, while I think her comments were innapropriate and tactless I think we also need to keep in mind that she's had social media for a year. 

One year. Do you remember all the stupid things you accidentally posted on Twitter/FB/Insta when you were just getting the lay of the land?  As much as she's my least favorite daughter/daughter in law I don't envy that with her maturity level (13 months ago she had the autonomy of a 12 year old) and lack of social media experience she now has an Instagram account with however many followers. 

I posted this in the Joy thread as well but as much as I dislike her and as much as the post was innapropriate and the loss is no where near the same I can't help but feel for her. She likely already felt a fair bit of anxiety over this pregnancy and I can imagine this is only adding to that. 

Long story short(ish) she annoys the heck out of me but I think she's more immature/naive than malicious. 

[Smee]

I think it’s definitely ignorance rather than malice too. This must be rough on Lauren, we know they waited a bit later to announce her pregnancy and I suspect at least some of that was fear of another miscarriage. Hitting all the milestones, going to the next scan, finding out the sex... all those things are meant to be a bit of a sigh of relief for her, and then someone close to her who was due around the same time loses their baby. Add to that a cult that doesn’t seem to have a healthy view of counselling or anxiety, and her best support is a 22yr old she’s been married to for barely a year.

That said... I still cringe. Because if I were Joy, a message like that would hurt.

[Glasgowghirl]

I don't like or dislike Lauren, she is a young girl who quickly courted and married someone in the public eye and then had a miscarriage. She is adjusting to married life and social media and I will give her the benefit of the doubt on her being intentionally malicious, someone commented on Joy's thread that she didn't even mention Joy and Austin in the Instagram post as if she was some sort of narcissist but the announcement of Annabell's passing was a week after it happened, so most of the family would have seen them and comforted them in person. 

 

[theotherelise]

People of all religious views and no religious views can be really bad at knowing what to say during a tragedy. People seem to want to find the perfect words instead of acknowledging that there are no good words to cover the pain. Performative condolences are even worse because now you're inviting an audience.

Show up, be there for your SIL & BIL. If you have to say anything online, a simple, "we are so sad and so sorry this happened. we love you and we're here for you." 

I'm not sure if I learned about it here or somewhere else, but the Ring Theory of crisis is extremely helpful in taking a pause and thinking about whether what you want to say needs to be said right now/by you/to someone specific. Lauren clearly still needs to work through grief (and some who've had losses cope with that throughout their lives at different times and paces). But she needs to direct those thoughts and worries in a different direction.

[Georgiana]

I think Lauren is stunted particularly early, even younger than the Duggar kidults.  Sometimes in these large but not mega families, the kidults end up with even LESS emotional maturity than in the mega-families because in the mega-families your parents can't watch you all the time, you need to mature to some extent to fend for yourself since you don't get a lot of parental attention, and the elder kids have to mature somewhat to care for the youngers.  But in families like Lauren's, there's no such extreme need.  The parents can be far more involved with their kids (especially the oldest and the youngest ones), "shielding" them from growing up, and keeping them particularly "innocent".  

Lauren's response sounds like something I once said.  At 5.  It lacks any nuance or hint of understanding of adult loss and suffering and speaks to a particularly childlike understanding of heaven and comfort.  She often seems very self-centered in a way that is not malicious, in the same way children are naturally self-centered before they mature and learn how to develop true empathy and compassion.  

Most "kidults" are really more stuck as teenagers.  But I think Lauren is stuck even younger, which is why she comes off the way she does a lot of the time.  

[JordynDarby5]

On 7/5/2019 at 5:29 AM, VelociRapture said:

I’m not really sure, but I think about this too. I personally think it’d go a few ways:

1. You see everyone you know as you knew them best. So you would see your grandparents as being older, while they might see each other at younger ages.

2. You see everyone at the age they died at, but their bodies are now fully functional and pain free.

3. We all turn into star dust and end up in that beautiful scene from “The Lion King,” where Mufasa tells Simba about the Kings of the past watching over them (ok, so maybe this is what I hope happens.)

With infants and lost pregnancies, I would assume they’d believe that they’d appear as young children who are old enough to play a bit. So Lauren might be picturing Asa and Annabell as being younger toddlers who can kind of toddle around and play, but also still need to be looked after and cared for by someone like Grandma Mary. 

Thats all just a guess though. Someone who knows they’d beliefs well might have a better idea of what Lauren might have meant.

Great post. I really love this idea. I've always wondered how babies that died before or after birth appear in Heaven. Like my mom's oldest brother who died the day before he was born. Does he appear as a baby and has always been a baby in Heaven or older? Same with the baby my mom miscarriage and my sister-in-law's miscarriage. It would be kind of nice if they were old enough to talk to. But one of the few comforting moments is thinking their all up there in Heaven. That Mom finally got to meet her oldest brother, her second child and first grandchild in addition to being reunited with her parents, grandparents and everyone else. Wondering what it was like for my grandparents when they finally got to meet the first baby they lost. 

[Cheetah]

1 hour ago, Georgiana said:

I think Lauren is stunted particularly early, even younger than the Duggar kidults.  Sometimes in these large but not mega families, the kidults end up with even LESS emotional maturity than in the mega-families because in the mega-families your parents can't watch you all the time, you need to mature to some extent to fend for yourself since you don't get a lot of parental attention, and the elder kids have to mature somewhat to care for the youngers.  But in families like Lauren's, there's no such extreme need.  The parents can be far more involved with their kids (especially the oldest and the youngest ones), "shielding" them from growing up, and keeping them particularly "innocent".  

Lauren's response sounds like something I once said.  At 5.  It lacks any nuance or hint of understanding of adult loss and suffering and speaks to a particularly childlike understanding of heaven and comfort.  She often seems very self-centered in a way that is not malicious, in the same way children are naturally self-centered before they mature and learn how to develop true empathy and compassion.  

Most "kidults" are really more stuck as teenagers.  But I think Lauren is stuck even younger, which is why she comes off the way she does a lot of the time.  

She's the one whose sister threw a tea party shower, right?  This kind of explains how I felt about how that girl (Lily?) came across... as simultaneously 9 years old and 35 years old.  I was really impressed with her organizational skills - none of my kids could have pulled off a nice-looking party at around age 16 or 17 with finger foods in front of tv cameras.  On the other hand, the tea party theme and her sort of bossiness about it definitely made her sound a lot younger than high-school age.  Would love to drop those kids into a group of regular high schoolers and see what happens.  (BTW, I have one very quirky high schooler myself, plus another one who is less quirky but still not terribly social.)

[singsingsing]

19 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

She's the one whose sister threw a tea party shower, right?  This kind of explains how I felt about how that girl (Lily?) came across... as simultaneously 9 years old and 35 years old.  I was really impressed with her organizational skills - none of my kids could have pulled off a nice-looking party at around age 16 or 17 with finger foods in front of tv cameras.  On the other hand, the tea party theme and her sort of bossiness about it definitely made her sound a lot younger than high-school age.  Would love to drop those kids into a group of regular high schoolers and see what happens.  (BTW, I have one very quirky high schooler myself, plus another one who is less quirky but still not terribly social.)

Yeah, that’s Lily. I’m silently rooting for her. She just seems so sweetly earnest, enthusiastic, confident and ambitious! She was the one talking about wanting to go to college and get a master’s (!!!) in speech pathology! I so hope that she’s able to break out to some extent, go after her dreams and use her powers for good.

[Angelface]

Georgiana, that is a very interesting theory and is something that I had not considered in regard to fundies. The mega families cause their older children to grow up in some ways (sister moming) and to have responsibilities that are not suitable for those who are still children ( and not particularly well educated children) but do not allow them to “really” grow up. I can see how families of say eight children are able to oversee the children and micro manage things to keep the children incredibly sheltered and unable to make a move into the real world. None of the children really do well out of this. The cult limits their life options. So very sad. 

Edited July 8, 2019 by Angelface
Autocorrect spelling error

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 7/6/2019 at 1:39 AM, LacyMay said:

Lauren has annoyed me since day one, something about her voice which always comes across to me as a bit condescending and her manner, almost like she appears as if she thinks she's above whatever is going on around her or bored to tears with it. She just strikes me as a bit pretentious and fake. 

I get/got this from her as well. I think she's very reserved and has no idea of who she is, I still think her marriage to Josiah was forced. These two are so ill suited, he was outgoing, a goofy fun loving kid, she is an uptight nervous little girl who was just finding herself and trying to figure out what she wanted out of life. They had no business getting married as she wasn't emotionally or maturity wise ready for marriage and motherhood, and he is only a little more mature, but she was not the girl for him. He and whats is her name, the 1st gal he courted, seemed much more well suited, but she would have led him away from the cult and Boob wasn't about to allow that. 

[tabitha2]

Really? The consensus here at the time was Majorie what’sits was very very extra  and probably much more into fame and name of Duggar than with Josiah. 

 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

27 minutes ago, tabitha2 said:

Really? The consensus here at the time was Majorie what’sits was very very extra  and probably much more into fame and name of Duggar than with Josiah. 

 

There was never a consensus about that.  Plenty of people just chalked her up as being a teenager who along with another teenager had no business being in a relationship headed toward marriage.

[tabitha2]

That’s not how I remember it. People seeing her as forced and overacting is more like it.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

There was never a consensus about that.  Plenty of people just chalked her up as being a teenager who along with another teenager had no business being in a relationship headed toward marriage.

I agree she was pretty extra but I did chalk that up to her being 17 and being with her 1st boyfriend.  She seems to have moved on to a pretty decent life, she's got an education, she's got a real job, she hangs with friends and is doing things "normal" 20 somethings do before they settle down and get married and or start having a family. 

[Fundie Bunny]

The actual consensus was somewhat along the lines of "what the actual fuck those two babies shouldn't get married" and "why would youstart a courtship the day your sister gives birth"

[NakedKnees]

I still follow Marjorie on Instagram. She's fundie-light as far as I can tell, but she's one of the only fundies I've been able to tolerate following on Instagram for more than a year or so. Her social media is just plain pleasant. I think she has a bright career ahead of her, and while she likely still has toxic beliefs, I honestly don't actually know that because she doesn't really broadcast them.

Also, she and Josiah broke up in between Joshgates 1 and 2. Josiah also had a sister moving to Scary Sintral America ™️and another had a baby on the way right then. Combine that with her probably having dreams to make her own mark on the world, I think a lot of us agreed that Marjorie may have seen how in over her head she was with this family. Who wouldn't have been?

Oh yeah...

Lauren. She strikes me as an awkward mix of steeped in Kool-Aid and inexperienced with how to communicate like an average 20-year old (or however old she is). As for Josiah, I simply think he's the most likely to have a midlife crisis among the Duggars.

All of that said, Lauren's comment didn't really bother me until I thought about it a bit deeper. That hashtag definitely bothered me, but that's largely because I don't think she has a good grasp on the uses of a hashtag. Hashtags shouldn't be about awkwardly jamming extra words in to a post, but about contributing your post toward a particular topic. Jill is bad at this too.

[HarleyQuinn]

Lauren's back in the comments of Joy's most recent IG post reminding the world that she too had a miscarriage. 

 

 

[JanasTattooParlor]

25 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Lauren's back in the comments of Joy's most recent IG post reminding the world that she too had a miscarriage. 

 

 

Literally if she had just left the first sentence off her comment it would’ve been a nice sentiment that she’s been thinking and praying for them. I really liked Lauren at first because she had some college and went with her own style of wedding dress that wasn’t a Miz Renee monstrosity, but she really does not seem to have an understanding of how to be tactful on social media. 

[front hugs > duggs]

I understand we don't want to pointless post photos with no comment, but I can't find Lauren's comment (I think it's easier on a phone then laptop for Insta). Instead of just posting the pictures, would it be possible to quote the comment and reference Joy's instagram post as the source?

[JanasTattooParlor]

4 minutes ago, front hugs > duggs said:

I understand we don't want to pointless post photos with no comment, but I can't find Lauren's comment (I think it's easier on a phone then laptop for Insta). Instead of just posting the pictures, would it be possible to quote the comment and reference Joy's instagram post as the source?

The comment was “Those verses were so comforting for me as well. You two are on my mind and prayers constantly. Love you both. -Lauren”. I think the phone is easier because they pull names to the top that are people the poster is friends with? ( Not quite sure how the Insta algorithm works though!)

[HarleyQuinn]

I just wonder if she drops it all when the baby is born or if it's forever living in the shadow of Asa. 

[Snarkasarus Rex]

2 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I just wonder if she drops it all when the baby is born or if it's forever living in the shadow of Asa. 

I think how she acts about it all *after* the baby is born will give us a better insight into her character.  Actually having a kid changes your perspective in a lot of ways...or, maybe not in her case.  I'm curious to see which way she goes.

[Bobology]

6 hours ago, Snarkasarus Rex said:

I think how she acts about it all *after* the baby is born will give us a better insight into her character.  Actually having a kid changes your perspective in a lot of ways...or, maybe not in her case.  I'm curious to see which way she goes.

Yes, especially because she couldn't have possibly had this particular baby if not for the miscarriage

[adidas]

Lauren consistently comes across as a really immature and egocentric tween. 

Her comment isn’t showing up for me but if you go to Instagram in your browser instead of the app you can cope and paste the link.

 

[JanasTattooParlor]

3 hours ago, adidas said:

Lauren consistently comes across as a really immature and egocentric tween. 

Bolding is mine because this was the word I was trying to remember when describing her and couldn’t think of it. She’s still very much in the egocentric teen stage. Hopefully having a baby will help her shift her focus from herself to her child. I really hope she doesn’t make this kid live in the shadow of Asa since like @Bobology said, this kid wouldn’t’ve been possible if she hadn’t miscarried.