Erin & Chad 5: I’m Thoroughly Defrauded by Chad’s Attire

[SassyPants]

32 minutes ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Don't forget where she said all the kids' toys fit in that one toy box. I'm all for minimal living, but that seems a bit tight. Granted I grew up with a playroom just for me and had the generic versions of all the hottest toys. In the first home I remember, my parents gave up the master bedroom so that I could have it because I was potty training and it had a half bath attached. My father admits now that he was lazy in the following years and didn't want to move the furniture, as the rooms were similarly sized. 

I’m not sure about the size of Erin’s master bedroom, maybe it’s the same size as the kids’ room, but I did wonder why the parents didn’t move to the smaller room, provided the kids currently reside in that smaller room.

If it’s all about kids being blessings and having child after child, why wouldn’t you make those blessings as comfortable as possible?

 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

I’m not sure about the size of Erin’s master bedroom, maybe it’s the same size as the kids’ room, but I did wonder why the parents didn’t move to the smaller room, provided the kids currently reside in that smaller room.

If it’s all about kids being blessings and having child after child, why wouldn’t you make those blessings as comfortable as possible?

 

The master bedroom is definitely bigger than the kids’ room. I suggested they switch a while ago. But their bed would likely be the only thing that could fit in that tiny room without blocking any doors. Erin wouldn’t stand for that. 

[SassyPants]

5 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

The master bedroom is definitely bigger than the kids’ room. I suggested they switch a while ago. But their bed would likely be the only thing that could fit in that tiny room without blocking any doors. Erin wouldn’t stand for that. 

Maybe Chad could whip them up a twin and a trundle 

LMAO

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, SassyPants said:

If it’s all about kids being blessings and having child after child, why wouldn’t you make those blessings as comfortable as possible?

Because it's all about having them.

[Melissa1977]

8 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Don't forget where she said all the kids' toys fit in that one toy box. I'm all for minimal living, but that seems a bit tight. Granted I grew up with a playroom just for me and had the generic versions of all the hottest toys. In the first home I remember, my parents gave up the master bedroom so that I could have it because I was potty training and it had a half bath attached. My father admits now that he was lazy in the following years and didn't want to move the furniture, as the rooms were similarly sized. 

It's sad. There are 3 kids in different stages with barely no toys? Everly is a baby, toys for babies are generaly big. Where are those baby toys? Carson and Brooks need cars, dolls, kitchens, legos (the big pieces ones) etc. And I'm being austere in my description. 

I know that milions of children in the world don't have any toy. Bates children hadn't toys probably! But when there are no toys or just a few ones, let's be sincere, kids get bored and naughty. I think Erin makes them play outside no matter the weather. 

Another problem I see is that Zach's kids have toys, Alyssa's too, I sure Josie will also buy toys for Willow. So Carson and Brook will see toys in their cousins houses. They may feel envious. Sometimes, families are poor and unfortunately kids must learn that. But when you have no toys because they interfere in your mother's decoration, it's a very different thing!!! 

The house is little but personally I would put a toy cabinet in the sitting room, instead of a crappy bookcase full of framed pictures and stuff.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

It's sad. There are 3 kids in different stages with barely no toys? Everly is a baby, toys for babies are generaly big. Where are those baby toys? Carson and Brooks need cars, dolls, kitchens, legos (the big pieces ones) etc. And I'm being austere in my description. 

I know that milions of children in the world don't have any toy. Bates children hadn't toys probably! But when there are no toys or just a few ones, let's be sincere, kids get bored and naughty. I think Erin makes them play outside no matter the weather. 

Another problem I see is that Zach's kids have toys, Alyssa's too, I sure Josie will also buy toys for Willow. So Carson and Brook will see toys in their cousins houses. They may feel envious. Sometimes, families are poor and unfortunately kids must learn that. But when you have no toys because they interfere in your mother's decoration, it's a very different thing!!! 

The house is little but personally I would put a toy cabinet in the sitting room, instead of a crappy bookcase full of framed pictures and stuff.

In my experience in the US, even poor kids have some toys. I’m not saying they are nice or expensive.  But toys are cheap as hell these days. And even the poorer kids have a few toys. The fact that her kids live in what looks like a showroom is what freaks me out. I honestly never cared that the Bates family and Duggar family had messy houses when all 19 lived at home. I think that’s normal. Kids make messes. But I wonder if her kids are ever allowed to make a mess in her house. I really doubt it. 

[Denim Jumper]

13 hours ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

Don't forget where she said all the kids' toys fit in that one toy box. I'm all for minimal living, but that seems a bit tight. Granted I grew up with a playroom just for me and had the generic versions of all the hottest toys. In the first home I remember, my parents gave up the master bedroom so that I could have it because I was potty training and it had a half bath attached. My father admits now that he was lazy in the following years and didn't want to move the furniture, as the rooms were similarly sized. 

I wonder if maybe they’ve got a toy rotation system going on? I did that when my kids were tiny because we just didn’t have the space for a lot of toys. They had their toy bins, and the overstock was stored in a closet; every so often I would rotate the closet toys into the bins, and the bin toys back into the closet.

[VelociRapture]

I’ve been thinking about it and I think there are a few things likely at play here:

1. Erin is used to living in smaller spaces with more people, so having (almost) six people and a dog (if Max sleeps inside - I don’t think he does) in 900 sqft likely isn’t that big a deal to her. It is to a lot of people because it’s not something we’re used to or because we have personalities more like Alyssa Webster (so people who would very much dislike being that crowded, like I would.) But @Pretzel is right that many people around the world live with much less with more people and somehow make it work just fine.

2. They could very well be planning to just stay in that little cottage shoving more kids into that one room, but I honestly think they’ll move somewhere new or they’ll buy land to build on in the next couple of years. Carson is only four right now, but they’re very likely going to want to separate him from his sisters at some point* and they’re going to need a larger space to make that happen. For right now the one room is probably fine for the three kids though. Holland won’t be ready to move in to that room until she’s probably closer to 1, so they have some wiggle room.

3. Based off Instagram, the Paines seem to spend a lot of time outside or visiting other family member’s houses. I wouldn’t be surprised if that really helps cut down on the amount of mess the kids make inside. 

4. Erin is a SAHM and has said before that she usually tidies up during naps and after the kids fall asleep at night. I do this too and it honestly does make it easier to keep things clean looking. Having less toys in the house really helps too - my daughter doesn’t have a play kitchen, but she likes playing with pots and pans from the kitchen, she uses a little cabinet we have as her “oven”, and she loves to help us with real cooking and baking instead. Erin might allow her kids to do the same or encourage them to repurpose other objects to use in new ways (like boxes - my daughter claimed an old pull-ups box we were going to use for moving for herself and now it’s a rocket ship/moving box/coloring surface.) She definitely lets them help her cook as we’ve seen them share photos of that. So they might feel the kids don’t really need a ton of inside toys for that reason.

5. I seriously doubt their house is always spotless. I’d guess this is a case of trying to put their best foot forward via social media and only taking the staged photos of their house after Erin redecorates when it’s actually clean and “presentable” looking.

*You don’t necessarily need to, but a lot of families in the States like their kids having their own spaces. That was something husband and I wanted for our own kids - regardless of sex/gender - because we’re both the type of people who appreciate being able to have some time by ourselves and we want our kids to have that option, especially as they get older and more independent. And, you know, Fundies gonna Fundie.

We currently live in a 1200 sqft town house with our dog and toddler. There are times it does seem cramped and the Paine’s living situation would be a nightmare for me personally, but “smaller” spaces can be surprisingly easy to keep tidy (even with a bunch of people) if you don’t cram it full of stuff and are creative about storage space. We could easily keep living here for many more years (even with our son on the way), but we’re moving next month because mortgage interest rates are pretty low right now (so selling our current place and buying a new one made sense) and we feel ready for a bigger space. 

[Scoodilypoop]

I don’t really understand the scrutiny over having three kids share one room. Until I was five, I shared a room with two of my older brothers and my oldest brother has his own room because he was a teenager and we were all under the age of 10. When we moved to a larger house, I was so freaked out by having to sleep in a room by myself that I slept on an air mattress in my parents’ room for half a year. My brothers felt the same and chose to take connecting rooms and leave the door open at night. Shared spaces for little kids doesn’t really matter to them. They all have a place to sleep and that’s really what matters. As to the cleanliness, I’d agree with whoever said that it’s probably a staging thing to cultivate their online persona.  

For context, I grew up in a family that was in no way religious. 

[ModestisHottest]

36 minutes ago, Scoodilypoop said:

I don’t really understand the scrutiny over having three kids share one room. Until I was five, I shared a room with two of my older brothers and my oldest brother has his own room because he was a teenager and we were all under the age of 10. When we moved to a larger house, I was so freaked out by having to sleep in a room by myself that I slept on an air mattress in my parents’ room for half a year. My brothers felt the same and chose to take connecting rooms and leave the door open at night. Shared spaces for little kids doesn’t really matter to them. They all have a place to sleep and that’s really what matters. As to the cleanliness, I’d agree with whoever said that it’s probably a staging thing to cultivate their online persona.  

For context, I grew up in a family that was in no way religious. 

Same! I shared a small room with my brother until I was 10 and he was 6 because there were only two bedrooms on the second floor and my parents didn't want one of us to have to sleep downstairs.  I honestly loved it. I missed him a lot when we got our own rooms. (I also get that two is different than four, though!)

[LilMissMetaphor]

I grew up in a huge house, but I still shared a bedroom with two sisters until first one moved away and then the other a year or two later.  When they were both gone, I had a really hard time acclimatizing to going to sleep alone (though I was by then a pre-teen).  It took me a long time to fall asleep without hiding under the blanket.

[just_ordinary]

12 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

It's sad. There are 3 kids in different stages with barely no toys? Everly is a baby, toys for babies are generaly big. Where are those baby toys? Carson and Brooks need cars, dolls, kitchens, legos (the big pieces ones) etc. And I'm being austere in my description. 

I know that milions of children in the world don't have any toy. Bates children hadn't toys probably! But when there are no toys or just a few ones, let's be sincere, kids get bored and naughty. I think Erin makes them play outside no matter the weather. 

Another problem I see is that Zach's kids have toys, Alyssa's too, I sure Josie will also buy toys for Willow. So Carson and Brook will see toys in their cousins houses. They may feel envious. Sometimes, families are poor and unfortunately kids must learn that. But when you have no toys because they interfere in your mother's decoration, it's a very different thing!!! 

The house is little but personally I would put a toy cabinet in the sitting room, instead of a crappy bookcase full of framed pictures and stuff.

If all their toys fit in this box they truly don’t have many. But I don’t think it’s a problem. Children can play with anything, doesn’t have to be designated toys. They can play outside and with the right clothes even if it rains or snows. And there is nothing wrong with that. They don’t NEED them (even though I am a huge fan of cars, dolls, Lego, books). Many parents are reducing toys, some methods of education like Montessori and many publications about early development are talking about a more intentional and reduced use of toys. It’s actually becoming a superficial (and false) sign of being „better, woke and invested” parents and part of a classicist mindset. Having tons of (cheap, plastic) toys is getting more and more a synonym for working class up bringing. That’s just the current fashion- the pendulum will swing back at one point, I guess. But it only shows that there is no NEED, it’s just a NICE TO HAVE.

Children get bored or naught no matter if they have access to toys or not. Learning to deal with boredom and finding a way out of it is seen as an important development step in my country.

If the children spend lots of time at their grandparents or cousins they can use the toys that are there. Learning that it’s ok if you don’t always get/have what others have is important. They would have to deal with jealousy about toys not matter how many they have on their own. The grass is always greener on the other side.

Now, we are talking about Fundies so those poor children are most definitely blanket trained (I have still hope as they haven’t said so and I think it might take another 2-3 kids) and their wishes will probably be ignored a lot. If Erin sends them out with inappropriate clothing or if they aren’t feeling well it’s obviously not ok. Creating a nursery that caters more to Pinterest than its residents isn’t ok either. But generally speaking, not many toys shouldn’t be a problem.

Please note: I am not against toys at all. And I don’t think every toy has to be a educational wooden (brain stimulating, Ecco friendly, imagination encouraging, yada yada yada) super toy. My daughter has toys (and definitely a few too many for my liking). But my point stands that the absence of toys won’t stunt or harm those children. Those Fundies have different ways of screwing them up. 

 

Same goes for single rooms by the way. This is a huge privilege of western / industrialised nations. And many forget that it’s isn’t the norm for many even here.

Edited August 25, 2019 by just_ordinary

[Melissa1977]

@just_ordinary the problem is that Erin hasn't decided to cut toys for educational purposes, but for the same reason than Zsu or JillRod: they want space for themselves and no messes.

I know some families and some daycares than had no toys or just some wooden ones with barely no shape. But they do a huge investment in interesting and safe material for playing and all those kids are babies and toddlers (I doubt all of them will accept the no toys rule as they get old). Anyway, Erin has never stated that she follows that kind of project. Yes, she allows kids to play outside and get dirty, but only when weather is nice (she said that in IG). I wonder if long winter days are full of TV and free grandma daycare. 

As a child, I had a few toys. My mom didn't like toys herself so we just got a couple toys for Christmas at grandma's home. Not all birthdays we were given toys, just sometimes. She claimed toys were expensive and she couldn't afford it, but she spent A LOT in books and crafts for us. But never listened that once in a while we preferred one less book and one more toy. She said to me that children with a lot of toys were sad kids and would be frustrated adults. It was me who was sad when at 10 years old (my brother was 8!) she banned new toys and we only got books and board games. We could keep the toys, just no new ones.

I'm very cautious with educational trends based in material austerity for the kids, because parents can use excessive shopping as a way to emotionally feed their kids (which is bad) but also parents can do the opposite to feel in control or superior to others. It may be control the toys, the clothes, the food, etc. My mom felt great when I complained about my friends having new Barbies while I had just one. She really thought she was doing me a favor and that she was a better mom than others.

Of course those videos in youtube where kids show like a milion gifts on Christmas morning are depressing and ridiculous and send a very negative message! My own kids don't get all the toys they want. But when I see 3 children and just 1 box for their toys, I suppose it's a personal thing, but I don't feel good.

*I edit to add that my mom is now the typical obnoxious grandma that buys tons of toys to her grandkids and I have had to stop her a lot of times and even have an argument because she was buying a ridiculous amount of things. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by Melissa1977
Adding information

[WiseGirl]

11 hours ago, Denim Jumper said:

I wonder if maybe they’ve got a toy rotation system going on

Is it bad that I do this for my dogs? 

[raspberrymint]

I didn't have a lot of toys until I was old enough to collect them i.e. put them on a shelf and not play with them because they were fragile, circa age 8.  No clutter that way.  ?

Edited August 26, 2019 by raspberrymint
They were frageel

[LillyP]

I could never live in such a tiny space as Chad & Erin but I will say this....

My kid (16 months) has TONSSSS of toys. Our living room looks like a toy explosion right now. You know what? He plays with the same handful of toys all the time and the rest just sit there. We have a large knit basket that's FULL of toys - stacking rings, a xylophone, little cars, plastic bowling set.....the list goes on. He basically always just pushes around the same few giant plastic trucks and his plastic lawnmower. He'd rather play with an empty paper towel roll and a pack of red solo cups. I'm saying all this because the lack of toys shown at their house isn't a big deal for me. My son also loves being outside and would rather be out running around our yard or in his swing (or even just running around on our screened in porch while I send emails) than sitting inside playing with toys. 

My issue with the size of the house is I just feel like it becomes an issue when you have kids in very different stages of development. I can't imagine putting my 16m old to bed into a room with an older (or younger) child right now. He would be such a distraction to their sleep. He is sleep trained, and has been since 6 months, but he still wakes up and cries out every so often....or sometimes takes a few minutes of fussing before he falls asleep. He does put himself back to sleep but I just think about how crappy that would be for a 4 year old who sleeps soundly. 

 

[SassyPants]

My issue, above all else, is that stupid ladder. How about a small dresser that would fit under the window ( not the best but better than a ladder) that could hold all the baby necessities behind closed doors? If you have a toddler and 2 pre-schoolers sharing that room, and NONE of them Runs in to , jumps on, climbs or pulls that thing over it would be a miracle, IMO. And if they don’t at least try, why are they ALL so incurious? 

[rebeccawriter01]

1 hour ago, SassyPants said:

My issue, above all else, is that stupid ladder. How about a small dresser that would fit under the window ( not the best but better than a ladder) that could hold all the baby necessities behind closed doors? If you have a toddler and 2 pre-schoolers sharing that room, and NONE of them Runs in to , jumps on, climbs or pulls that thing over it would be a miracle, IMO. And if they don’t at least try, why are they ALL so incurious? 

I agree. That ladder is an issue both in terms of safety and logistics. As a child, I would have been tempted to swipe the diapers for my dolls. I would have also tried to climb it. I was a gutless child, but I would have seen it as a ladder - ladders are meant to be climbed. 

I get that all children don't have a lot of toys or even their own room. But it seems sad to me and against development standards that these kids don't have a space to call their own or really any items of their own. Carson and Brooklyn have their beds, but once Everly outgrows the crib her bed is a trundle. The toy chest is cute, but wouldn't it be nicer to have little cubby holes for each of them? It would help teach responsibility and care for items rather than there being a central dumping ground for everyone. I remember having my very own plate and cup in our kitchen. My mom used it as a way to get me to help with dishes. I would have to rinse off (wasn't old enough to wash yet) my plate and cup or I wouldn't have anything to eat off for the next meal. I was very proud of my little plastic cup, plate, and bowl with Cookie Monster on it, and would show them to all visitors. When I threatened to run away (Mom caught me drawing on the walls and took away tv time for a day), those were the first things I packed. 

I remember from the ABC Nightline story that the reporter asked Erin about alone time and privacy. She said the bedrooms weren't used during the day so if you needed to be alone you just went to the bedroom for a few minutes. It wasn't until the youngest children that you even saw them with toys at all. Older pics of the Duggars show that same thing that there is a line with the youngest five or so having toys and items like that compared to the older ones who were usually pictured practicing a musical instrument or doing some kind of work. I know the Kid Farm satire made fun of this by saying the kids don't have dolls because there are enough babies to go around. 

My need for private space and time stems from being an only child. I would have gone nuts in that small of a room with other children. My mother tells me that when I had friends or cousins spend the night, I usually woke my parents up early in the morning or in the middle of the night to say that child needed to go home and I was tired of them. This could be why I have relationship issues to this day. 

 

[Lgirlrocks]

Growing up I spent a lot of time in my room. When I was 17 and we were looking for a new house I wanted a bedroom with some space. A lot of the houses we looked at had super tiny rooms. No one understood the need for a room with a little space. I still spend time in my room as a thirty year old. Having two dogs I spend slightly more time in the dinning room so I can watch them play/play with them and do laundry at the table. As a teen I had a lot going on, with my dad being sick, and wanted a space to get away if I needed. 

The Pains kids may not care about sharing a room at this age. When they get older they might. 

[nvmbr02]

3 years ago my husband took a new position that had us living in a fairly small place for 3 years.  It was right about 1100 sqft, but it was a two story and the stairs kinda wasted some of that space. We had 4 bedrooms, but they were very tiny and 1.5 bathrooms for the 5 of us and a dog. It was doable, but tight. We had stuff tucked away in every available space. My youngest was the only one of my three kids that really still had toys. She was almost 7 when we moved into the house and we left just before she turned 10. She had cube storage in her closet, tubs under her bed and then a toy box at the foot of her bed. 

When the contract was over and we had a location to move for finding a house that gave us all private space was a priority. Thankfully we did find a house that had a decent mater suite and 3 secondary bedrooms that were fairly equal in size, along with an office that we can use as a guest space.  Most of the houses we looked at had 1 really nice secondary room and then two or three others that were much smaller. It seriously feels like heaven being able to spread out a bit. I am glad the kids are able to have their own space, especially now that 2 are teens and the oldest is thinking about going to a local college and living at home.

Edited August 27, 2019 by nvmbr02

[lumpentheologie]

20 hours ago, SassyPants said:

f you have a toddler and 2 pre-schoolers sharing that room, and NONE of them Runs in to , jumps on, climbs or pulls that thing over it would be a miracle, IMO. And if they don’t at least try, why are they ALL so incurious?

Blanket training.  That ladder is the strongest evidence of blanket training I've seen from them yet.  You'd be an idiot to put that in a room full of children unless you were very sure they wouldn't touch it, and we know the Bates have a history of hitting children until they're too terrified to touch things, or probably to explore at all.  Blanket training is designed to crush exactly this kind of curiosity in children, both so they don't touch anything while mom is pushing out baby after baby, and so they are never curious enough to explore life outside the narrow boundaries of the cult.  

[HereticHick]

I really thought the Cherin story arc would be that they'd buy a fixer up and we'd get to oooh and ahhh over Chad's rehab skills. I can't believe that they haven't been able to find anything in East Tennessee. It's not like they have to worry about proximity to good schools.

[nolongerIFBx]

On 8/25/2019 at 5:01 PM, Melissa1977 said:

@just_ordinary the problem is that Erin hasn't decided to cut toys for educational purposes, but for the same reason than Zsu or JillRod: they want space for themselves and no messes.. . . .

Is this an assumption or have I missed Erin stating why she allows only a few toys?

[rebeccawriter01]

10 minutes ago, nolongerIFBx said:

Is this an assumption or have I missed Erin stating why she allows only a few toys?

She made a comment in her Instastory that the toy box (labeled CARS) was for all the kids and that when there were too many for that box it was time to declutter and get rid of toys. 

[nolongerIFBx]

3 minutes ago, rebeccawriter01 said:

She made a comment in her Instastory that the toy box (labeled CARS) was for all the kids and that when there were too many for that box it was time to declutter and get rid of toys. 

Thanks!