Bates 26: Do Not Attempt This at Home

[TatiFish9]

@formergothardite I specifically mentioned pants not being an issue in my post. I also did not list it in my defense against saying fundie rules are superficial to those who are surpressed  and abused by/ because of them . The Alyssa pants topic is a way to distract from some of the harmful comments mininizing the affects of fundie rules on believers especially those who are too young or vulnerable to defend themselves.

The Bates are showing changes. At this point, I question anyone's motives who completely denies this simple fact. They may still be fundie, but some of them are definitely rethinking how they once did thing. Why is this so difficult to admit?

 

[formergothardite]

10 hours ago, TatiFish9 said:

t this point, I question anyone's motives who completely denies this simple fact. They may still be fundie, but some of them are definitely rethinking how they once did thing. Why is this so difficult to admit?

Have they changed from the time we found them? Sure.  Almost all the fundies we have been following for years have changed just like the Bates have. I think the Arndts are the only one who have remained totally stagnant. Fundie culture changes and the Bates changed with it.  They seem to be going along with the fundie flow. 

Edited May 26, 2019 by formergothardite

[JermajestyDuggar]

On 5/26/2019 at 7:20 AM, formergothardite said:

Have they changed from the time we found them? Sure.  Almost all the fundies we have been following for years have changed just like the Bates have. I think the Arndts are the only one who have remained totally stagnant. Fundie culture changes and the Bates changed with it.  They seem to be going along with the fundie flow. 

You are way behind! Some of the adult Arndt man boys are moving into a neighboring house all by themselves! I almost fell over from shock. 

[Bethella]

17 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

You are way behind! Some of the adult Arndt man boys are moving into a neighboring house all by themselves! I almost fell over from shock. 

I fell over from laughing so much when I heard.

[llucie]

So is normal in their circles to post photos of caskets or what? when JillRod did it we all asumed it was one more of her excentric behaviour, but aparently Kelly also thinks its ok to post photos of the casket of other peoples children. And i really hope the babies are alive in the first picture because if not she is even more morbid than JillRod. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 hours ago, llucie said:

So is normal in their circles to post photos of caskets or what? when JillRod did it we all asumed it was one more of her excentric behaviour, but aparently Kelly also thinks its ok to post photos of the casket of other peoples children. And i really hope the babies are alive in the first picture because if not she is even more morbid than JillRod. 

I’m ok with the pictures as long as Kelly got expressed permission to post them. She’s smarter than Jill so I am leaning on the side of getting permission. Those photos were heartbreaking. It must have been so hard for the parents to say goodbye to their twins only after such a short time with them. 

[llucie]

15 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I’m ok with the pictures as long as Kelly got expressed permission to post them. She’s smarter than Jill so I am leaning on the side of getting permission. Those photos were heartbreaking. It must have been so hard for the parents to say goodbye to their twins only after such a short time with them. 

But Jill also asked permission, the parents where possing in the photo with her so obviously they knew the photo was being taken. I dont think its in good taste to post photos of the dead children or of the casket, i have never seen people do such a thing until Jill and now Kelly, thats why i said maybe its just normal in their circles and thats why both thought it was ok.

[JermajestyDuggar]

11 minutes ago, llucie said:

But Jill also asked permission, the parents where possing in the photo with her so obviously they knew the photo was being taken. I dont think its in good taste to post photos of the dead children or of the casket, i have never seen people do such a thing until Jill and now Kelly, thats why i said maybe its just normal in their circles and thats why both thought it was ok.

You can take a picture with people without asking expressed permission to post it on you public Instagram/Facebook. I pose for pictures with my friends and they always ask, “do you mind if I post this on Facebook?” While showing me the picture. Everyone has a camera on them these days so there are things people take pictures of now that they didn’t 40 years ago. I imagine pictures of caskets and funeral flowers are more common these days. 

[SassyPants]

3 hours ago, llucie said:

So is normal in their circles to post photos of caskets or what? when JillRod did it we all asumed it was one more of her excentric behaviour, but aparently Kelly also thinks its ok to post photos of the casket of other peoples children. And i really hope the babies are alive in the first picture because if not she is even more morbid than JillRod. 

As a former long time Nicu nurse, based on the overall color, but especially the nail beds of the baby on the right when looking at the photo, I’d say that photo was of recently deceased (or close to it) infants. I find posting those photos, when  they are not your own children in poor taste.

[NachosFlandersStyle]

What a bizarre post. So was she pulling out her phone in the visitation line to get that shot of the casket? What the actual fuck.

I get the initial impulse. Look, I witnessed an unusual event! Isn't that interesting? I have a friend who-- well, for the sake of anonymity, let's just say that the circumstances of her illness and death were so unusual that she was profiled in a national magazine because of it. And sometimes I'm in a conversation that drifts in that direction and find myself saying "well, if you want to hear something really strange, you'll never believe what happened to a friend of mine..." and I get halfway into it before remembering, oh right, she died. That's why I'm telling this story in the first place.

But at least I have that thought? And I've certainly never posted photos of her dead body to a million strangers on the internet?!?!

[lumpentheologie]

It struck me as a very political, pro-life post.  Why else post about someone else's babies like this, insisting that they were a blessing even though they only lived for 6 days? If the parents knew that in advance, a lot of people might have chosen to terminate in that position, and we know the Bates don't want that to be an option. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

14 minutes ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

What a bizarre post. So was she pulling out her phone in the visitation line to get that shot of the casket? What the actual fuck.

I get the initial impulse. Look, I witnessed an unusual event! Isn't that interesting? I have a friend who-- well, for the sake of anonymity, let's just say that the circumstances of her illness and death were so unusual that she was profiled in a national magazine because of it. And sometimes I'm in a conversation that drifts in that direction and find myself saying "well, if you want to hear something really strange, you'll never believe what happened to a friend of mine..." and I get halfway into it before remembering, oh right, she died. That's why I'm telling this story in the first place.

But at least I have that thought? And I've certainly never posted photos of her dead body to a million strangers on the internet?!?!

I am 100% positive I would never make a public post like the Bates family made. It would make me incredibly uncomfortable. However I think it’s possible the parents of the conjoined twins may have okayed the post because they may feel it brings awareness and attention to the children they lost due to being born conjoined. My grief looks very different from my sister’s. We share half our genetics but when I’m grieving, I’m crazy private. When she’s grieving, she’s super open about it and posts about it on social media. I understand we are different people and grieve differently and there’s not really one right way to do it. If these parents want to share their daughters in a large way (the Bates family instagram has a ton of followers) as a way of grieving, I can’t really judge. But if the Bates family did this without permission, I’m completely horrified by it. 

[fluffernutter]

Nope. Not cool with caskets of babies on social media. Caskets of fallen soldiers, people who have died as a result of gun violence, or presidents and such, ok. But not babies, and especially not babies that aren't yours. I should add- if parents feel the need to do that, that is totally their choice and zero judgment there. 

Edited June 4, 2019 by fluffernutter
wording

[VelociRapture]

Nope. Nope, nope, nope. Not ok with that post by Kelly. It’s one thing if the parents choose to post about it themselves. I’d never criticize grieving parents for doing something like that. It strikes me as just wrong and attention seeking for anyone else to do that - especially someone as anti-choice as Kelly is. I’d bet the family involved are likely anti-choice as well, but this post just really rubs me the wrong way.

[Lurky]

4 hours ago, llucie said:

But Jill also asked permission, the parents where possing in the photo with her so obviously they knew the photo was being taken. I dont think its in good taste to post photos of the dead children or of the casket, i have never seen people do such a thing until Jill and now Kelly, thats why i said maybe its just normal in their circles and thats why both thought it was ok.

I disagree that we know that Jill asked permission.  I suspect she ambushed them - waited in line to meet them, gushed over them, then asked for a photo, while they were too dazed to be able to say no.  They'd never even interacted with Jill before, let alone met her, and I suspect it was such a weird thing to do, on one of the worst days of their lives, when likely they were so numb with grief that they couldn't compute what was happening. 

And I bet that even if they'd agreed to a selfie, they wouldn't have realised their children's coffins would be visible in the photo, or that Jill would have put it online as a trophy, along with her livestreaming the service just because she wanted the FB likes. 

I don't think they were posing as much as being trapped in the metaphorical headlights.  And *even if* it's ok to take that kind of selfie in Jill's circle, she knew nothing about this family before the accident, and wouldn't know what was OK in their circle at all.  She should at least have asked their permission after the funeral, when they'd had time to process, before putting it online.  But no, TIJWTA.

[AussieKrissy]

I came over to say wtf posting those poor (not even yours) dead babies. 

Even the Duggars were better than this. They just had a pic of little jubliee's feet and (I assume) Michelle's hand. I looked at it for a while and considered it may have even been a stock photo of someone else they used.

I am not cool with dead babies on the internet. Those girl's parents posting it all well and good. If that is their way of coping

The parents asking the bates to post it to their large audience to raise awareness, put up an alive pic with the Mum and Dad holding their girls. Put in a disclaimer that this has been shared with the family's permission.

The Bates doing it how they did stinks of attention seeking, anti abortion shit and lack of awareness. That kind of stuff can be very triggering for people and that by putting those babies out there into the cyber world you are exposing them and now (their family) to cruelty and mocking from bullies and keyboard warriors. I don't mean that those babies should have been hidden, just that it was not the Bate's right to put them out there.

POOR FORM KELLY POOR FORM

I have not checked is she getting blowback from people online

 

[RosyDaisy]

Fuck you, Kelly! Just fuck you! I know people who are far more rabidly anti-choice than you who would not post pictures of dead babies. You are insane, you cold hearted bitch! Spend more time with your kids and less time worrying about other people's dead babies!

[AmericanRose]

Well, someone noted they weren't comfortable seeing that on social media, and Kelly responded:

"I’m sorry that you feel that way, but we know and recognize God had a purpose for their little lives. They have brought joy to many and we knew their little lives would bless others as well. We will never know how many gained strength, encouragement, and closeness because of their lives. I know they helped me!"

So there we are! She posted the pictures so others could gain strength, encouragement, and closeness.

[AussieKrissy]

16 minutes ago, AmericanRose said:

Well, someone noted they weren't comfortable seeing that on social media, and Kelly responded:

"I’m sorry that you feel that way, but we know and recognize God had a purpose for their little lives. They have brought joy to many and we knew their little lives would bless others as well. We will never know how many gained strength, encouragement, and closeness because of their lives. I know they helped me!"

So there we are! She posted the pictures so others could gain strength, encouragement, and closeness.

and fuck you for being upset at me posting dead babies, As long as I am closer to god then you and no one else matters.

 

[AmericanRose]

2 minutes ago, AussieKrissy said:

and fuck you for being upset at me posting dead babies, As long as I am closer to god then you and no one else matters.

 

Pretty much! There were a lot of responses to that comment (none were in agreement).

If the parents wanted to post it, fine, but someone outside the family doing so just seems odd and intrusive to me.

[Vivi_music]

6 minutes ago, AmericanRose said:

Well, someone noted they weren't comfortable seeing that on social media, and Kelly responded:

"I’m sorry that you feel that way, but we know and recognize God had a purpose for their little lives. They have brought joy to many and we knew their little lives would bless others as well. We will never know how many gained strength, encouragement, and closeness because of their lives. I know they helped me!"

So there we are! She posted the pictures so others could gain strength, encouragement, and closeness.

Am I the only one who really hates the last sentence (bolded)? It is totally a personnal opinion (and reaction), but I would hate to read that sentence if these were my children. My babies born with critical health issues, to only live 6 short days; were there to help you? It would piss me off to no end. 

I suppose like other posters have said, that the parents are in agreement with Kelly's sentiment. In a way, I do hope they may find comfort in knowing their twins helped others, if it can help them grieve. I know it would piss me off, but not my place to judge the parents nor judge how to grieve after such a lost. Everyone copes differently.

BUT... I can judge Kelly as much as I want tho! Her comment only prooves that the post was a typical pro-life propaganda, which is completly distasteful. Using these little girls to further your agenda is just low class.

[Mimosa]

I'm extremely uncomfortable with their posting those babies. Even if they asked permission, I just don't believe there is a tactful way to ask parents in that situation where the parents feel able to say no. If the parents wanted to post it, that would be one thing. They are free to grieve as they please. I also don't like the thought of the pictures being out there out of the control of the parents. What if later on in their grief, they don't want the pictures out there? Now the onus is on them to contact the Bates and ask them to take it down. 

I also really just don't like the idea of whipping out a camera at a funeral and lining up a shot of a little baby casket. I'm usually pretty good at seeing both sides of a situation, but I can't see anything other than gross in this situation. Fuck them.  

[Illmarryyoujana]

I assumed that they definitely had permission to share the story of the babies and their photos, both to spread awareness and to honor them. Their parents may have wanted Kelly to post them in their prettiest outfit first, even if that meant the one when they had already passed. I can understand if you aren’t okay with seeing pictures of deceased babies, but sometimes that’s the best photo a parent can get of their child, or even only. It’s not really all that uncommon. Perhaps Kelly really is so tactless that she didn’t get permission, but I really don’t think that’s the case at all here. I’m not normally one to defend Kelly Bates, but I see absolutely nothing wrong with those pictures as long as the parents knew they’d be posted. 

[just_ordinary]

I have a slightly different stance at that matter. It was nowhere Kelly‘s place to use those pictures and especially not for their pro-life agenda. That’s sickening and I only hope the parents are ok with this.

But while I avoid pictures of death, sickness, violence, war/military, suffering in general because it deeply upsets me these are all part of the world and life. Making them a taboo just because it makes me upset is probably the wrong direction. It’s a complicated issue and while I would prefer to not give such issues a platform there are plenty of good reasons why they should be talked about. There are good reasons to bring the topic of death into the public discussion (maybe not necessarily in this particular case but in general). It’s not what I prefer and it will affect me but it’s not my place to be a special snowflake.

Point is: If it’s ok to show dead people than it’s ok to show dead babies.

[AussieKrissy]

30 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I have a slightly different stance at that matter. It was nowhere Kelly‘s place to use those pictures and especially not for their pro-life agenda. That’s sickening and I only hope the parents are ok with this.

But while I avoid pictures of death, sickness, violence, war/military, suffering in general because it deeply upsets me these are all part of the world and life. Making them a taboo just because it makes me upset is probably the wrong direction. It’s a complicated issue and while I would prefer to not give such issues a platform there are plenty of good reasons why they should be talked about. There are good reasons to bring the topic of death into the public discussion (maybe not necessarily in this particular case but in general). It’s not what I prefer and it will affect me but it’s not my place to be a special snowflake.

Point is: If it’s ok to show dead people than it’s ok to show dead babies.

I see your points they are  valid. I had not thought of some of them.

They should still care about the people who would be triggered by this (dead adult or baby) and put a warning on their post and  not put it as the first photo so people don't have to look at it if they do not want too. Her words could have been enough, in that case.

Edited June 5, 2019 by AussieKrissy